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New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 22nd February 2009
  #361
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John, thanks for input.

I will contact the rep tomorrow.

About Murphys law and your experience.. yup.. that's my life in a nutshell.

You wouldn't believe all the things I've been thru when it comes to purchasing stuff. Almost makes me semi-religious.. kind of starting to interpret it as a sign like "stop this material life NOW and seek inner wisdom, harmony and love in a simple yogi-guru-style".

One of my friends use to shake his head everytime I tell him something new and it never seem to stop!

Don't know if I should laugh or cry really.


/Peter
Old 22nd February 2009
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
Obvious question, perhaps, but could it be a faulty cable or connector? It's only happening in one channel .... did you swap out the 8020 with the 8040 using the same cable?
Hi!

I left everything untouched except swapping the mic's (in a stereo set up) and the noise followed the swap.

Also plugged another mic which was fine.

Yes obvious question but we all make those little mistakes sometimes so I understand you. :-)


/Peter
Old 23rd February 2009
  #363
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I talked with the Swedish rep and I'll hand over the mic's in person today. Unfortunately they don't stock any of these mic's and the guy told me that I would likely have to wait 2-3 weeks before the issue would be sorted out in Germany. This means that I'll miss what I've been working hard for for 6-12 months searching for bigger jobs and saving money to buy my rig.

The thing I have coming up could be a break thru for me as a pro and now there's is a risk that I will miss the whole thing and I'm just about to break out in tears. I think it's hard to find these types of mic's for hire in my area and I'm not sure I can afford it at this time either.

I wish I could contact the right persons in Germany directly but mails are bounced to Sweden and there's no phone numbers.

The backside of dealing with big corporates.


/Peter
Old 23rd February 2009
  #364
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
The thing I have coming up could be a break thru for me as a pro and now there's is a risk that I will miss the whole thing and I'm just about to break out in tears. I think it's hard to find these types of mic's for hire in my area and I'm not sure I can afford it at this time either.

I wish I could contact the right persons in Germany directly but mails are bounced to Sweden and there's no phone numbers.

The backside of dealing with big corporates.


/Peter

Why don't you rent mics for your gig?
Have a look at our inventory, I am sure we have something that will work for you.
Who are you recording and where is it?
Old 23rd February 2009
  #365
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Kjetil, thanks for your offer. I'll see what I can arrange here and consider it and get back to you in a PM.

I will do that gig one way or another but I'm short of finances and I have invested everything I've earned the latest year in a completely new rig. It just feels so wrong to rent gear when I bought this stuff partly for the reason not having to rent gear and this is the chance I've been waiting for.

Also it's a no pay gig which makes it even less fun to shell out more money but of course I'll see it as an investment and marketing cost in the end.


/Peter
Old 23rd February 2009
  #366
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Send me a PM, we can always help you out outside the company to get you going in exchange for some good karma on the streets.

We can also have a chat about sennheiser nordic
I wish they just folded and let berlin be the distribution and servicecentre.
Old 23rd February 2009
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Andy,

what would you say are the major weaknesess (is that a word?) in standard high quality mics?
To get back to this question.....

I think my original statement was something to the effect of the microphones under discussion being of essentially same mechanical-acoustic class (direct-radiator), by which I meant to imply that their distortion issues would likely be of similar order.

If we are talking about nonlinear distortion, we might look at the question from the opposite perspective - expected audibility - where we have the question:

If there are differences, where would we expect to hear them?

For example, given the question of spectral content VS SPL in acoustic music, there is little point looking at distortion figures for 20kHz at 130dB SPL - this will likely never happen and even if it did, the hearing system has very low acuity in this range.

I would suggest looking at distortion figures around the 'speech range' where human hearing has the greatest acuity (see thresholds of audibility / equal loudness contours between 1-4k).

I would suggest looking at the fundamental frequency range of music (where we see almost the entire 8 octave range under ~4kHz).

I would suggest looking at measurements for high peak SPLs of the music in question (eg. orchestral).

Where these three conditions coincide (which is no coincidence), we see the highest SPL and highest hearing acuity - the recipe for audible distortion.

In my experience, this is where we are most likely to hear differences in nonlinear distortion.

So, back to the original topic - comparing the mics in question, what measurable difference in distortion is there in this range?

I would expect almost no differences - which is why I would expect the essential perceived sound quality to be the same (polar response excluded).

In other words, I would expect both to have similar levels of audible distortion in this range.

Andy
Old 24th February 2009
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
Send me a PM, we can always help you out outside the company to get you going in exchange for some good karma on the streets.

We can also have a chat about sennheiser nordic
I wish they just folded and let berlin be the distribution and servicecentre.
Kjetil, thanks again for your kindness, PM sent.


/Peter
Old 24th February 2009
  #369
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Situation update.

The mic's are now delivered to Sennheiser Sweden and should be shipped today to Germany. I managed to reach a service manager in Germany on the phone and he took some information about the issue and I got the impression that when the mic's arrive they will do what they can in order to solve this before the date of my upcoming recording.

Many thanks to you my dear GS friends for support and advices.


/Peter
Old 24th February 2009
  #370
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My first pair of matched (sic) 8020 was faulty, one mic was 4 dB louder/queter than the other. Sound quality was ok, though, but such a difference makes stereo recordings bit difficult. Local agent (Senn Nordic) gave me a replacement set while those mics were sent abroad for warranty repairs. After a month or more of no news from the shop we just desided that I keep the replacement set and they keep the faulty ones.

Great product when they work as advertised, but maybe some problems with quality controll?
Old 24th February 2009
  #371
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
My first pair of matched (sic) 8020 was faulty, one mic was 4 dB louder/queter than the other. Sound quality was ok, though, but such a difference makes stereo recordings bit difficult. Local agent (Senn Nordic) gave me a replacement set while those mics were sent abroad for warranty repairs. After a month or more of no news from the shop we just desided that I keep the replacement set and they keep the faulty ones.

Great product when they work as advertised, but maybe some problems with quality controll?
Let's hope Sennheiser will take this seriously, I don't think I have ever tried buying a faulty microphone. [... I think I had one replaced, many years ago]. Maybe Sennheiser compromised a little trying to get the new MKH line as small as they did. Let's hope no more quality issues show up.
BTW for the price paid I think they should have replaced them in the first place instead of sending the faulty pair to rep. and loaning you another pair.
Does anyone know how long Sennheiser guarantee runs: 2 years, 5 years, 10 years..?
Old 24th February 2009
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Let's hope Sennheiser will take this seriously,
Yes and I hope they go to the bottom to find out what casues the problems.

Quote:
BTW for the price paid I think they should have replaced them in the first place instead of sending the faulty pair to rep. and loaning you another pair.
That would be the serious and professional thing to do in Petrus case and in my case. My situation can be affected due to the fact I bought the mic's from overseas, but still Sennheiser do have world wide warranty.


Quote:
Does anyone know how long Sennheiser guarantee runs: 2 years, 5 years, 10 years..?
Depends on country I believe. I think two years in Sweden/Nordic countries.


/Peter
Old 24th February 2009
  #373
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post


Depends on country I believe. I think two years in Sweden/Nordic countries.


/Peter
They should be able to do better:

DPA 5 years - Røde 10 years - Milab Lifetime!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post

That would be the serious and professional thing to do in Petrus case and in my case. My situation can be affected due to the fact I bought the mic's from overseas, but still Sennheiser do have world wide warranty.

/Peter
Agreed - you shouldn't have to bother with a repair - at least they should be able to borrow you a replacement, if they say their warranty is world wide...
Old 24th February 2009
  #374
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Sennheiser USA is a 2 year warranty (Evolution wired mics are 10 years). That's bad news about Senny Nordic, I've only heard good things about claims and repairs in the States.
Old 1st March 2009
  #375
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So, may I ask, could we garner more impressions between Schoeps CMC64 and the 8040s.

I strongly believe this is on topic, because certainly the 8040s are a serious contender for the top of the hill. Mr. Schoeps lives there... are the 8040s plucking away at his toes?

I love the sound of Schoeps...
the price of a new set of 8040s is *very* appealing vs. buying Schoeps second hand and the chances that go along with that. a warranty, albeit brief (2 years seems short to me for such a price), is desirable.

dot dot dot
Old 1st March 2009
  #376
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Someone posted clips of a Schoeps cardio + MKH40 + MKH8040.

Don't remember in which thread.. possibly this? Think it was a piano recording.


/Peter
Old 1st March 2009
  #377
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Someone posted clips of a Schoeps cardio + MKH40 + MKH8040.

Don't remember in which thread.. possibly this? Think it was a piano recording.


/Peter
The latest Yellowjackets "Lifecycle" used the MKH-800 twin for piano, not sure if its the same mic but stereo...
Sounds good to me IMHO..
Old 1st March 2009
  #378
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desotoslo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Someone posted clips of a Schoeps cardio + MKH40 + MKH8040.

Don't remember in which thread.. possibly this? Think it was a piano recording.


/Peter
Thanks, Peter. Yea, I heard those clips, and preferred the MK4. It just felt more even and soft, but with full clarity. I was kinda hoping for orchestra samples, or at least small ensemble comparisons.
Old 1st March 2009
  #379
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I had posted those clips right after I purchased my pair... Honestly, I didn't really like either of them on piano. Neither really captured the instrument in a way that I felt benefited the instrument. Also, I have also found that trying to use the two mics in the same way is futile.

They are radically different sounding mics. Usually I prefer the Sennheisers, but not always- it really depends on the source and the room. Trying to use them in the same way (which that comparison did) is doing both mics a disservice.

--Ben
Old 9th March 2009
  #380
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The microphones are now repaired and will ship today which means I probably will have them at wednesday when I will do one of the two upcoming recordings this week.

What a relief!

My contact was not sure what casued the problems but he mentioned that it was something about the capsules themself and I think a service report will be sent with the mic's.

To those of you (you know who you are) that have helped me in this situation, THANK YOU! thumbsup

You guys rock, GS rock and Sennheiser rock! I'm feeling very positive about Sennheiser and the way they handled this.



/Peter
Old 3rd November 2009
  #381
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I recently added a pair of MKH8050 to my toolbox. Used them in a suboptimal position recording some classical and opera in the swedish Royal Court in Stockholm the other day and I also have tried them at home with voice and guitar.

The sound of these are clean and neutral as can be expected and it seems the extra directionality can be really worthwhile as main pair as well as spot mic's.

Miking the choir and ensemble at serious distance in a big church with 4s decay it turned out that 8050 was prefered over 8040 (I think, possibly I need to blind test). The positioning was paralell straight ahead towards the musicians. The directional index is about the same between cardiod, hypercardioid and fig-8 it's just a matter of the direction where the sound is picked up but I felt the 8050 gave a little more definition than the 8040 most likely because of less lateral pick up from the side walls, floor and ceiling (with the "penalty" of some pick-up from the back wall).

Think the Faulkner array with two fig-8.

I was surprised to encounter some problems even with this pair and I still question the QC of Sennheiser. One of the mics was not put together correctly and had a slightly loose fit. When tightning or unscrewing the XLR body and reattaching it to the caspule the internal adapter is unscrewed from the capsule. Since the threads are opposite it can not be solved by hand. The internal brass threaded part in the capsule body needs to be tightened with a special tool and I'm not sure I dare to do this myself on a new mic so even this pair will need to go in for service.


/Peter
Old 5th November 2009
  #382
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Plush's Avatar
The 8020 omnis have replaced the 4006 pair for orchestra outriggers here.

The results are excellent indeed.

In fact, Sennheiser mics of all varieties are being used more and more here. #800 mics are also admired here for their sumptuous sound.
Old 5th November 2009
  #383
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Yes and I hope they go to the bottom to find out what casues the problems.



That would be the serious and professional thing to do in Petrus case and in my case. My situation can be affected due to the fact I bought the mic's from overseas, but still Sennheiser do have world wide warranty.


/Peter
I had problems within a few months of purchase with a pair of M150s I got from sennheiser nordic. They could not provide an N149 PSU while mine was being repaired. Neumann Berlin came through as always, they are old school service.
Same when I had a failure on a new kt8 cable (for M150). Getting a replacement cable was like pulling teeth.
Old 5th November 2009
  #384
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I'd like to add that even though I've had bad luck and I'm slightly bothered with the problems I've mentioned I did buy the 8050 pair and I have another 8040 pair waiting to be picked up at my favourite shop in Stockholm.

Either I'm stupid or the mic's are that good since I will buy a fourth pair even though I have had problems with the first three pairs. Probably both.


/Peter
Old 5th November 2009
  #385
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
I'd like to add that even though I've had bad luck and I'm slightly bothered with the problems I've mentioned I did buy the 8050 pair and I have another 8040 pair waiting to be picked up at my favourite shop in Stockholm.

Either I'm stupid or the mic's are that good since I will buy a fourth pair even though I have had problems with the first three pairs. Probably both.


/Peter
Maybe Sennheiser cut corners to get them as small as possible, if this is it, it's too bad.

Anyhow they should offer better support and longer warranty.

Best of luck with your Sannhäusers - please let us know about your experiences.

[..and if you get into trouble again - consider some Schoeps, Neumanns, DPA, Milabs, Beyerdynamic, Nevaton or other good microphones]

Old 6th November 2009
  #386
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Behringer vs Sennheiser (Behringer wins...?)

It seems absurd that Sennheiser is repairing rather than replacing these mic's. And they should be replacing them by overnight delivery, too.

They are clearly in a different class than the earlier series when it comes to basic reliability.

I remember all the comfident statements about the MKH series working better than all others in the damp. Now the addition will have to be "when they are working at all."

I have some old series MKH mic's which I like, so I'm not anti Sennheiser. But I do think the new series have been given breaks that would not be given to any other manufacturer.

If the problems reported here had happened to owners of Behringer mic's, there would be the usual outcry. Instead, it's "gee whiz, what a great manufacturer Sennheiser is." If Behringer charged more for its products, maybe there would be less outcry against them.

Then again, maybe we'll have Behringer knockoffs. It will be interesting to see which ones are more dependable.

(I'm joking, but only about the very last part.)

Schoeps and DPA have mastered the all in one "compact microphone." Clearly, Sennheiser has not.

I also remember a report on these forums from a UK Sennheiser affiliated person who claimed that Schoeps have to be regularly sent back to Germany for (regular) repairs to keep them operating properly.

I wonder what the same person thinks of having to send the new wunderbar Sennheisers back out of the box to get them repaired, and not replaced. How many times in the first year will these wonderful mic's need to be repaired? And in the years that follow?

Hmmmm
Old 6th November 2009
  #387
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

If any product is faulty out of the box you sort it with the dealer who would normally replace it straight away.

Under European law the guarantee is with the dealer - it should never be a problem, the dealer just swaps it over.

If someone chooses to send it back to the manufacturer for repair instead of replacement, that's his choice.

The MKH 8000 series is pretty reliable, I have had no problems at all with mine and know of only one faulty unit in the UK so far.
Old 6th November 2009
  #388
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Plush's Avatar
Units have been working well here. Sorry that some people are reporting problems.
If there was ever a problem with any new equipment, our dealer would send us new units without question.
Old 7th November 2009
  #389
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
I'm with Plush on this one.

We have quite a few 8000 series mics and they all have been working well here too.\

I agree, if there was ever an equipment failure with a new product the item would be sent back for a replacement, with no issues.

In my experience, Sennheiser USA has gone beyond the call of duty to keep its customers happy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Units have been working well here. Sorry that some people are reporting problems.
If there was ever a problem with any new equipment, our dealer would send us new units without question.
Old 15th November 2009
  #390
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I stopped by my shop the other day and tightening the loose MKH8050 was a quick fix by the help of their very service minded tech guy (Deluxe Music Stockholm city). I also bought my second MKH8040 pair and attached you can find the supplied graphs of the two non matched MKH8050 and also my two MKH8040 pairs.

Nothing less than impressive to see that even non matched mic's are within one or a couple of tenths of a dB from eachother in most of the range and the max deviation above 100Hz is +/-0.3dB or so.

The two pairs of matched MKH8040 are very well matched in frequency response and absolute sensitivity which is great for any kind of 2-4 mic array. Funny thing is splitting the MKH8040 pairs and "rematch" them makes for even tighter tolerances.

New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-img_0911.jpg

New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-img_0913.jpg

/Peter
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