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New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 28th October 2008
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post
This feature is absolutely killer and now that I have it, would not want to record any other way.
I find this "feature" a little dangerous and much prefer to determine the correct pattern at record time. Since the pattern selection is tied so intimately with source distance, mic height, and room acoustics, the correct selection cannot be determined in post production.
Old 28th October 2008
  #332
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
I find this "feature" a little dangerous and much prefer to determine the correct pattern at record time. Since the pattern selection is tied so intimately with source distance, mic height, and room acoustics, the correct selection cannot be determined in post production.
It is of course dangerous to use this feature as a crutch and not do proper setup, but using proper techniques (I really like double M-S or M-S-M so far in my experimentation) or ORTF with the ability to slightly adjust patterns from true cardioid to a wider cardioid pattern only adds options at mix time... I view it as one more parameter that I have at my disposal. I like to try to avoid as much processing as possible, but if I can get a warmer sound by opening up the mics a bit or by EQ'ing, it seems to me I'd rather adjust the mics pattern than boosting electronically.

It goes without saying, this feature does not take away the other aspects of responsible engineering. Me... I like this extra dimension of these mics a lot.
Old 28th October 2008
  #333
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Just curious - why are you bringing this up now, quoting a posting that John wrote in July...?
Yes - and especially, why comment on things I did not say in the excerpt quoted????
Old 29th October 2008
  #334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
[email protected],

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...-cm3-mp3s.html

Not the best quality. Noisy and I got unexpected interupts in the datastream (no ASIO driver).

QTC1 is the same mic as QTC40 and very close to QTC50. It's the same microphone AFAIK only the selection of the capsules is tighter for QTC50/M50.


/Peter
Thanks a lot, Audiop, I'll take a look!
Norm
Old 29th October 2008
  #335
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Google has, for several months now, only been returning 2 hits for "MKH8030"....any word?
Old 29th October 2008
  #336
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
[email protected],

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...-cm3-mp3s.html

Not the best quality. Noisy and I got unexpected interupts in the datastream (no ASIO driver).

QTC1 is the same mic as QTC40 and very close to QTC50. It's the same microphone AFAIK only the selection of the capsules is tighter for QTC50/M50.


/Peter
Peter, have you had further experience with the mkh8020 since this recording; have you tried to use it with "diffuse field eq"..?

Mads
Old 29th October 2008
  #337
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Hi!

I haven't recorded since then and I played around a little with EQ on those tracks. I will receive MKH8040 any day now and then it's time for a new round without klicks and in a more silent environment. I will also try them at home but the acoustics are not that funny. Well controlled but warm and "close". Except for piano.. also guitar, flute, violin and banjo will follow.


/Peter
Old 29th October 2008
  #338
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Hi!

I haven't recorded since then and I played around a little with EQ on those tracks. I will receive MKH8040 any day now and then it's time for a new round without klicks and in a more silent environment. I will also try them at home but the acoustics are not that funny. Well controlled but warm and "close". Except for piano.. also guitar, flute, violin and banjo will follow.


/Peter
thumbsup
...very interesting!

Even though they are omni, and you plan a cardioid comparison. If possible do consider a few samples with 8020 as well; would be nice to hear in a more silent environment, with different instruments.

¤
Mads
Old 30th October 2008
  #339
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Yes, in the next week or so I'll focus on 8020/QTC1 and 8040/CM3. I will record the same signal with all pairs but the interesting thing will be comparing similar polar patterns of course.

My intention is to build up a collection of mics (omni, cardio and fig-8) that will allow me to tackle most recording situations with top notch results.

As we have discussed earlier I would be very happy if I can use the 8020 in a way that resembles the QTC1 in "openess" but with less* noise.

Down the road I will try to run the MKH8000 mics to the old MKH20/40 and I will also take a look at some lower priced SDC omnis like those from AT, AKG and Röde.

edit:*changed "noise" to "less noise".


/Peter
Old 30th October 2008
  #340
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Yes, in the next week or so I'll focus on 8020/QTC1 and 8040/CM3. I will record the same signal with all pairs but the interesting thing will be comparing similar polar patterns of course.

My intention is to build up a collection of mics (omni, cardio and fig-8) that will allow me to tackle most recording situations with top notch results.

As we have discussed earlier I would be very happy if I can use the 8020 in a way that resembles the QTC1 in "openess" but with noise.

Down the road I will try to run the MKH8000 mics to the old MKH20/40 and I will also take a look at some lower priced SDC omnis like those from AT, AKG and Röde.


/Peter
This is interesting research! And do you still plan to analyze intermodulation distortion figures for the microphones as well?
Old 30th October 2008
  #341
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Yes I will do what I can in order to investigate harmonic and intermodulationdistortion in a bunch of mics.

It's a little tricky but it can be done.


/Peter
Old 30th October 2008
  #342
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Prick Up UR Ears's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Down the road I will try to run the MKH8000 mics to the old MKH20/40 and I will also take a look at some lower priced SDC omnis like those from AT, AKG and Röde.
very much interested in this as well
Old 30th October 2008
  #343
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
It's a little tricky but it can be done.
/Peter
I wouldn't know how to do it, but if you can it'll maybe add interesting extras to the discussion... [if we trust the figures]

If it's too tricky, stay with the sound-samples - It's the sound that counts!

Old 9th November 2008
  #344
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Hi!


Please look at this link for measured distortion on some microphones.

Possibly some surpries.

Microphone distortion measurements


/Peter
Old 10th November 2008
  #345
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I'm the opposite - I choose microphones for their *lack* of colour and character as I mainly record classical and want to record what the performance really sounds like without changing it with coloured microphones.

Also the lack of intermodulation distortion in the MKH 20/30/40 series and MKH 8000 series allows the subtleties to come through that are lost with other mics.

Perhaps that's why I like the MKH so much. heh
Technical Applications Manager - Sennheiser UK

John, you might want to add that one job to your sig line.
Old 10th November 2008
  #346
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d_fu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Technical Applications Manager - Sennheiser UK
John, you might want to add that one job to your sig line.
Another one who thinks it's witty to bring up this old subject, and with a quote of something that was posted in April... The last one who did so only went back as far as June... What's that supposed to be good for?
Old 13th November 2008
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Another one who thinks it's witty to bring up this old subject, and with a quote of something that was posted in April... The last one who did so only went back as far as June... What's that supposed to be good for?
For all the times it has not appeared but should have?
Old 9th December 2008
  #348
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I'm shopping for shockmounts to my mic's and it looks like I'll go with the Rycote INV-series.

I'm aware of directional mic's being much more sensitive to structural noise than omnis but I wonder, has anyone done actuall tests to see (errr hear :-) how much of a difference there is with omnis in real use?

I'm not sure if I should order a pair of Rycote INV-3 for the MKH8040 and be done with it or if I should buy a pair in the same time for the MKH8020.

Maybe I'll go for the INV-7 for the QTC1 also.



/Peter
Old 9th December 2008
  #349
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
I'm shopping for shockmounts to my mic's and it looks like I'll go with the Rycote INV-series.

I'm aware of directional mic's being much more sensitive to structural noise than omnis but I wonder, has anyone done actuall tests to see (errr hear :-) how much of a difference there is with omnis in real use?

I'm not sure if I should order a pair of Rycote INV-3 for the MKH8040 and be done with it or if I should buy a pair in the same time for the MKH8020.

Maybe I'll go for the INV-7 for the QTC1 also.



/Peter
My experience is that you don't need shockmounts for pressure omni's. My most used pair [DPA 4006 TL] certainly doesn't need any!

For directional mic's Rycote's INV are wonderful, in my experience!
Old 9th December 2008
  #350
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
I'm shopping for shockmounts to my mic's and it looks like I'll go with the Rycote INV-series.
I have both INV-2 and INV-3 for my MKH 8040s and will get the same again for my MKH 8020s as soon as I get them.

Superb mounts.
Old 9th December 2008
  #351
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I have both INV-2 and INV-3 for my MKH 8040s and will get the same again for my MKH 8020s as soon as I get them.

Superb mounts.
But John - do you experince any structure born audio transmission through hard mounts of the 8020..?
Old 9th December 2008
  #352
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
Omnis are not immune to structure borne noise.
I can't imagine hard mounting the main rig for orchestra sessions.
Gran Cassa, timpani, Bass, tuba, bass trombone and french horns are all capable of creating sympathetic vibrations that travel even heavy stands.
Old 10th December 2008
  #353
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
But John - do you experience any structure born audio transmission through hard mounts of the 8020..?
I haven't got the 8020s yet (but will soon).

Though I did have a pair with me at the IBS Microphone Placement Masterclass recently and they were used on a piano in the INV-2 mounts with remote cable.

But the InVision mounts are so cheap it's not worth taking the risk. I use the S-series flexible cable with my InVisions to minimise the risk of handling noise getting up the cable.
Old 10th December 2008
  #354
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
Omnis are not immune to structure borne noise.
I can't imagine hard mounting the main rig for orchestra sessions.
Gran Cassa, timpani, Bass, tuba, bass trombone and french horns are all capable of creating sympathetic vibrations that travel even heavy stands.
Well Kjetil - you are the experienced, when it comes to orchestral recordings so Peters [AudioP] question remains.

I haven't had any issues with structure born noise myself, but I haven't made any tests showing which was best either. [I have to admit that I believed what I was told from DPA regarding this]. So if some have any tests at hand it would be interesting to hear them.

Decca has over the years made a lot of wonderful records with hard mounted M50s as far as I know...
[I've seen quite a few pictures confirming this]
Old 10th December 2008
  #355
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
from the Neumann M49/m50 manual

"7. The amplifier portion of these microphones is shock mounted in rubber....."

I can tell you that sound does travel the stand. As a consequence we try to use heavy stands (avenger B150 when possible) with 6 lead shot bags hanging off the base. We also use shockmounts. I do, however find mounts for heavy mics are either too stiff and privide little absorption, or too loose and cause difficulties in precise posisioning.

will an M150 still sound good on an orchestra hard mounted?
Yes it will

All electronics are susceptable to vibration on some level. The capsule is obviously the most sensitive.
I want the mics to capture air vibration as it hits the diaphragm and not vibration transferred through the body.
Old 10th December 2008
  #356
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
from the Neumann M49/m50 manual

"7. The amplifier portion of these microphones is shock mounted in rubber....."
I see - but usually internal shock mounts are not very effective.. are they.?

Anyhow I don't want to discuss this, this way - real life testing is what we can trust. So I will remember this and see if I can make better recordings with shock mounted pressure omnis.

Old 10th December 2008
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
All electronics are susceptable to vibration on some level. The capsule is obviously the most sensitive.
I want the mics to capture air vibration as it hits the diaphragm and not vibration transferred through the body.
I too have had plenty of issues with omnis and hearing noise that comes up the stand.

I quote this section because of an experience probably 10 years ago by now that I had. I was recording and orchestra and due to hall scheduling, was not able to fly the mics until the day before the show. So, I used stands and in a break between rehearsals, finally flew them in the air. What struck me was how much the sound and image cleared up. There had been no perceived issues before we flew, but once the mics were no longer attached to a stand, the image got larger and the bass extended.

The stage is a solid one- definitely don't get walking sounds when you cross it. The supports are all steel under it and it is built like a tank (unlike a number of stages in LA that are hollow and not suitably supported underneath).

Due to this experience, I like to fly mics whenever possible for the recordings where it really is a big deal. Unfortunately many halls are not set up for flying mics and many groups aren't willing to book the time to do it so there are limits to what is possible. It does make a pretty huge difference, though.

--Ben
Old 22nd February 2009
  #358
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Hi folks!

I have found some surprising problem with my mic's.

Having a gig comming up I decided to go thru my relative new rig to make sure everything is working fine.

I discovered one of each in my MKH8020 and MKH8040 pair has a strange noise comming from it.

The noise is higher in level than the intrinsic noise of the mic's and is almost constant in the faulty MKH8040 and comes and goes in the MKH8020.

It sounds as when you're operating a low quality pot or having a bad solder on some connection and move it.

Anyone else have this problem? Maybe place your mic in a quiet room, crank the gain so you hear the mic noise and see what it gives.

I'm thinking on giving up on Sennheiser due to all problems I've had with them. One think that going with a big reputable name and paying big cash is going to save you problems and give pro quality.

I recently had so send back a pair of HD650 becsue of mechanical noise from the points where the cup is fixed to the "headband". Swallowing or moving the head just slightly gave a plastic clicking noise similar to an old hinge that hasn't been lubricated. My dealer changed the headphones without discussion and that was good of course.

A couple of years ago when I bought my HD600 there was some buzzing noise from one side and it turned out to be a strand from the voice coil rubbing against some structure.

Four products purchased and problems with them all.


/Peter
Old 22nd February 2009
  #359
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
I have found some surprising problem with my mic's.
This is unusual - my pair are fine.

It seems you are extremely unlucky as all the products you mention are all very reliable and have an extremely small failure rate.

You sound a bit like I used to be - everything I bought new was nearly always faulty, but was fine after it was swapped. Was like this for years and then suddenly stopped - it's just a version of Murphy's Law.

Your local Sennheiser agent will sort this pronto for you, but please give him all the details so he can make sure the factory knows in case it was a batch problem.
Old 22nd February 2009
  #360
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hughesmr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Hi folks!
I discovered one of each in my MKH8020 and MKH8040 pair has a strange noise comming from it.

It sounds as when you're operating a low quality pot or having a bad solder on some connection and move it.
Obvious question, perhaps, but could it be a faulty cable or connector? It's only happening in one channel .... did you swap out the 8020 with the 8040 using the same cable?
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