The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tags: , ,

New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 9th October 2008
  #301
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
Is flagrant stereotyping a British standard?
No, I'm just getting a bit pissed off with people who take what I say the wrong way.
Old 9th October 2008
  #302
0VU
Gear Addict
 

FFS John!

I can't decide whether you need more help with getting the chip off your shoulder or the bullet out of your your foot!





This is NOT a cultural thing. As you well know, it's not just on this, or other majority American populated forums that people complain about a perceived lack of openness in your association with Sennheiser. It's been discussed with you on many occasions that I know of and there are probably as many complaints that are dealt with without referral to you.


Quote:
It seems that because I work for Sennheiser you expect me to lie about anything Sennheiser,
No. It's because you start off by not declaring your affiliation as openly as possible and when challenged refuse point blank so to do.

Quote:
Probably 10% or less of what I post is Sennheiser related, so I really don't know what the problem is all about.
Part of the problem might be that your perception of the proportion of your posts related to Sennheiser and that of others are somewhat misaligned!

Quote:
If I am wrong about Americans, I'm sorry, but that's how it comes across.
You are wrong.

I lived there for almost two years whilst studying and, whilst I'm amongst the first to take the mickey and brandish comic, or other, stereotypes whenever an opportunity arises, even I find your attitudes offensive. I've never seen you in this light before.

Not all Americans are stupid, fat, lazy, parochial, celebrity fluff obsessed, xenophobic religious zealots, with less culture than a yoghurt, no proper cuisine, scruples, or grasp of global geography, much less politics, and the idea that they're somehow Gods people (*), chosen to run the world in their own image, any more than all English are arrogant, stuck-up, up-tight, parochial, celebrity fluff obsessed, insignificant, xenophobic bigots, with no proper cuisine, a diminishing grasp of their real place in the world, the idea that anyone else actually cares what they think, politics borrowed from America, and the delusion that they're above God and still run most of the world in their own image! (Aren't xenophobic stereotypes wonderful!)

You are talking through your backside!


(*Everyone knows that Gods chosen people are the Welsh (**)- we're just too generous in giving someone else a go at running things )

(** Though I believe there is a popular misconception that we're short, stocky, hairy, cave dwelling, sheep worriers, who eat seaweed, believe that large groups of men indulging in close harmony hymn singing qualifies as culture and spend our entire lives down coal mines or indulging our nationalistic hatred of the English and a love of burning their holiday cottages. Obviously this is at least as partially wrong as the other nationalistic impressions expressed here but if I took it seriously I might be in a minority in being offended by it. )


Quote:
Anyway how could I put Sennheiser in a signature when I advise someone not to get rid of his Schoeps, suggest someone downloads the Schoeps Double MS plug-in, Suggest someone gets a Røde NT5 or an AT 4033, etc., etc...
Come on John, no matter how your little outburst makes you appear, you're not stupid. How difficult would it be to put something in your signature along the lines of 'I may work for Sennheiser UK (check website for products represented) but anything I post is in my capacity as an individual with my own experience, expertise and opinions, and should in no way be taken as the views or opinions of my employer. No endorsement or official link is implicit or implied unless stated otherwise.' Or something like that. It really shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to find a way of saying 'I work for them as a techie and I don't post for them as a sales pimp'!

And may I suggest you get hold of a copy of this.
Old 9th October 2008
  #303
Lives for gear
 

0VU,

you really know people! *lol*

Please amuse me some more, give a sum up of a Swede!


/Peter
Old 10th October 2008
  #304
Lives for gear
 

John-

I call you on it because you say things in your posts that may as well be sales-speak in an official Sennheiser brochure. (just read your post that I quoted from an unbiased point of view and you'll see what I mean).

If I didn't dig through your profile to see the affiliation, I wouldn't know. The fact that you get so defensive just makes you look bad.

I have respect for you as an engineer and you do try to recommend other brands and such. That being said, your bias towards the brand is pretty obvious. For those of us on the outside, it is difficult to read your posts as true recommendations or trying to sell a microphone.

You have going for you a similar excitement when people bring up Sequoia (that I know you also use) and that is a good thing. I think you honestly like the mics and show that whenever possible. I think the problem lies in the fact that you quote sales material as gospel and don't always realize it.

My request of you is to be open with your affiliations by placing a brief note in your sig that makes it obvious. If you're concerned about recommending a non-Senn. product, then put a disclaimer that the views are your own and not of your employer- Sennheiser microphones. A commercial link is not a bad thing. You can answer with authority on a line of mics that many use and like. Just be open and honest about it and try not to be defensive when we call you on it.

--Ben
Old 10th October 2008
  #305
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
A question was asked and I answered with the reason - that's all.
Don't read into it what isn't there - they are voiced like that because that is what was wanted after consultation with recording engineers - nothing more, nothing less.
John, with all due respect... Ben's right, this did sound like marketing jargon. I would consider it of little practical value to quote unspecified "consultations with (unnamed) recording engineers" in a forum that's full of such engineers. This will hardly impress anyone (and it somewhat sounds like it's meant to, rather than provide in-depth information about these "consultations").

As for your comments about Americans, I think they are uncalled-for here.

If you wish to be clear about the fact that your Sennheiser-related statements are your own personal opinion, and not Sennheiser's, then I'm inclined to say that a sig line would be helpful indeed. Nothing wrong with it at all, IMHO. It's for those who don't know who you are, not for those who already know you. Nobody expects you to lie, on the contrary... Without it, the possibility or risk of creating an impression of some sort of hidden marketing agenda exists. And this kind of thing is something I personally am quite allergic to (generally, not referring to you). Obviously, so are others.

This will not only harm your reputation, but may even harm Sennheiser's reputation here... As others have suggested, it can clearly be stated that while you do work for Sennheiser, your opinions here are personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Please amuse me some more, give a sum up of a Swede!
What about germans? But don't mention the war...

Best,

Daniel
Old 10th October 2008
  #306
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
John's comments sometimes read like a press release from Zennheiser UK.
That's the bottom line. John's description of Americans is laughable and provincial.
Is THAT Zennheiser UK's opinion of American customers?


I use the 8020 omni mics and I like them plenty. I think they have an attractive sound.
The comment about a cadre of international engineers weighing in on the design brief and sound of the MKH 8000 series is laughable. That may impress the "'consumer." It does not impress real engineers. In fact, it's a bogus line seemingly aimed at the audiophile hi-fi fringe.

Didn't Mr. Zielinsky (ex DG) who now works for Zennheiser have a major hand in voicing the mics? That means employees at Zennheiser voiced the mics.

Besides---why are the mics being "voiced?"
The source is making the sound, not the microphone.
Old 10th October 2008
  #307
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Bravo 0VU, fifthcircle, and d_fu!

I could not have said it any better than you folks.

Well done and, thank you for making these points crystal clear.

I get weekly PMs and emails about this subject and, I'm tired of dealing with it, especially when I have to read these offensive remarks from JW.

All I want to do is make everyone happy and that also includes JW.
I'm looking for a win win situation here.

I do my best to keep this forum positive which has helped it become a great (if I do say so myself) forum on all levels.

This crap is dragging me down and I'm not very happy about it.

I really would like the complaint bandwidth to lessen; we have much more important topics to address.

I trust good things will come from this.
Old 10th October 2008
  #308
Gear Addict
 

Ditto all sentiments already mentioned.

It's common to issue a disclaimer in all professions and across cultures: "Views stated here are my own and do not necessarily reflect the position of X." No big deal.

There is no reason why this should be a problem. Unless you're paid to blog/post/whatever about these mics in a sales/marketing capacity and such a disclaimer would go against that, openness will end all of this nonsense. Your insistence about the reference in your profile is disingenuous bunk: readers of this forum likely seldom take the time to view the profile features, and probably not without some substantive motivating reason.

In case it hasn't been expressed explicitly before, "please."

Last edited by resound; 10th October 2008 at 02:34 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 10th October 2008
  #309
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
As for your comments about Americans, I think they are uncalled-for here.
Sorry, I agree - just getting a bit pissed off and posted after drinking a nice bottle of vino.
Old 10th October 2008
  #310
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
It seems that because I work for Sennheiser you expect me to lie about anything Sennheiser, you expect me to be untruthful, you expect me to hype up anything, you expect me to hide weaknesses in a product, you expect me to be dishonest, etc., etc.........

I am NOT an American and I don't subscribe to these American standards.

[/i]

we can't help it if we're mean, it's our British heritage
Old 10th October 2008
  #311
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0VU View Post
there is a popular misconception that we're short, stocky, hairy, cave dwelling, sheep worriers, who eat seaweed, believe that large groups of men indulging in close harmony hymn singing qualifies as culture and spend our entire lives down coal mines

Hilarious! Bravo. A great idea for a film.
Old 10th October 2008
  #312
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
MKH8020 with sphere-balls..?

Opened my machine this morning and saw all this...

It seems to be calm after the storm now. I hope for some solution so this will not remain a returning topic here on this great forum. Right now I hope we can return to main topic again.
____

I have a question that I hope for a response to:

Has anybody tried the MKH8020 with a sphere-ball. The samples I've heard this far from 8020 has given me the impression that they could fare very well with an extra lift on top. And since many [myself included] agree that omni's with sphere-ball's has a very attractive pattern, MKH8020 could be the perfect mike for it [as a low-cost M50 substitute].

Best,
Mads
Old 10th October 2008
  #313
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
Hey guys, we have a great forum here, lets get back on track and discuss the original issues.

I have a personal plea to John; could you please delete the post about our friends in the west and replace it with a smiley face ?
Old 23rd October 2008
  #314
Gear Addict
 

I'm probably not looking hard enough, but it wasn't as easy to find numerous online sources for matched pairs of the 8020s via google. Any great suggestions on where to order in the US?
Old 23rd October 2008
  #315
Lives for gear
 

Anybody that sells Sennheiser or Neumann in the US can sell them to you... B&H has them, Full Compass, I'm sure Sweetwater, etc... Even if they aren't listed on a page, they would be easy for somebody to order. GS members that sell them include Studio1117 (on ebay), Atlas (Nathan Eldred), and our own Remoteness (who I know won't toot his own horn so I'll play the pimp for him... heh)

They really aren't a difficult microphone to find to purchase.

--Ben
Old 23rd October 2008
  #316
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for the suggestions! I was hoping to audition them, which might be easier from a dealer who carries them routinely. Anyhow, thanks for the suggestions!
Old 24th October 2008
  #317
Lives for gear
 
Don S's Avatar
 

I just got a hold of one of the new Rycote InVision series shock mounts (INV-6) for my 8040. Incredible! Inexpensive! Ellegant! and Quiet. The little strain relief tab is intelligently designed and works really well. I put it on the end of a pole and it was quiet. Nothing coming up the pole! Beats the sh*t of the lousy sennheiser shocks which cost me $90 (each). I haven't yet figured out what they're good for!
Old 24th October 2008
  #318
Lives for gear
 

I was skeptical about those mounts when (several pages back in this thread- or I think it was this thread) I first read about them. Then, this summer, I worked for a few days on a film set where they were being used for 8040's at the end of a boom. As sensitive to rumble as those mics are, I was expecting to hear something. However, nothing came through... These are definitely a very well designed mount.

Gotta get a pair of them for myself.

--Ben
Old 24th October 2008
  #319
I'll chime in here too, the Invision units are one of those devices that are magic. The magnitude that they work above and beyond anything else is almost impossible to fathom. Its not like there are levitation electronics built into them or something, they are just rubber and plastic, just like the all other mounts, but these lyres work on another level. They are NOT sturdy, however... not in the sense that I feel they are fragile, but the elasticity / give that the lyre design has will allow the mic to wobble around if moved enough. On the end of a boom pole, it is quite conceivable that one could "bottom out" the mic as it exceeds the travel of the lyre.
Old 24th October 2008
  #320
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

The "Lyres" are amazing - I had an early set to test and sent back comments (along with other Beta testers) and they were changed and improved after the testers comments came back.

They were well waved around by professional recordists before they went to market.

I have the INV2 and 3 for my 8040s (I did say the INVs were better than the Sennheiser 8000 series mount).
Old 24th October 2008
  #321
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I just got a hold of one of the new Rycote InVision series shock mounts (INV-6) for my 8040. Incredible! Inexpensive! Ellegant! and Quiet. The little strain relief tab is intelligently designed and works really well.

I also use the INV6, and they have been great. The way the mic fits in there just seems perfect, and they are easy to set up, light, and they also give the impression while handling them that they are exceptionally durable.

I'm not a huge fan of the strain relief tab... but perhaps I just need to look at it differently. How you all use it? With the vertical orientation, It seems like you can have the mic cable passing through it going up or down.... due to the different loops you will get, it's not clear what is best. I love using the schoeps shockmount strain relief clamp, which is oriented horizontally, and holds the cable in a very natural way.
Old 25th October 2008
  #322
Gear Head
 

I had the opportunity to use the 8000 series quite a bit this summer and have a couple subjective things to take away:

the 8040 is a very present mic, placed in the same place as another cardioid mic it seems to be louder and just more "in your face."

the 8020 is very comparable to the schoeps omnis however a tad darker and without that high-freq. "glitter" that embodies the schoeps sound, and in a head to head comparision (cmc6 body/mk2h cap) with the two mics as close as possible the only really apparent diffirence (at first listen) is the mega-increased low-end in the 8020s. There is a lot to work with down there, probably well below 20hz.

that being said, the 8020s and 8040s were my most reached-for mics all summer.

Last edited by satiricalwonder; 25th October 2008 at 10:14 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 25th October 2008
  #323
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by bove View Post
I also use the INV6, and they have been great. The way the mic fits in there just seems perfect, and they are easy to set up, light, and they also give the impression while handling them that they are exceptionally durable.

I'm not a huge fan of the strain relief tab... but perhaps I just need to look at it differently. How you all use it? With the vertical orientation, It seems like you can have the mic cable passing through it going up or down.... due to the different loops you will get, it's not clear what is best. I love using the schoeps shockmount strain relief clamp, which is oriented horizontally, and holds the cable in a very natural way.
I use my INVs with the S-series mic. tail, which is very flexible and decouples the mic. well. It is quite short and takes the mic. through the grip - I plug the normal mic. cable into the end.
Old 25th October 2008
  #324
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I use my INVs with the S-series mic. tail, which is very flexible and decouples the mic. well. It is quite short and takes the mic. through the grip - I plug the normal mic. cable into the end.
The "mic tail" you are referring to... is it the cable pictured in this Rycote photo?
Attached Thumbnails
New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics-s_series_suspension_01.jpg  
Old 26th October 2008
  #325
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by bove View Post
The "mic tail" you are referring to... is it the cable pictured in this Rycote photo?
Yes it is - it is perfect for going from the microphone through the cable grip and decouples the mic. much better than a normal mic. cable.

I use these short flexible cables all the time when a mic. is in a shockmount - it stops noises being transmitted to the mic. via the cable.
Old 28th October 2008
  #326
Hi,
can I ask for comparison 8020 vs EW QTC50? Can not decide my next purchase for orchestral recordings - main pair..

Thanks,
Norm
Old 28th October 2008
  #327
Lives for gear
 

[email protected],

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...-cm3-mp3s.html

Not the best quality. Noisy and I got unexpected interupts in the datastream (no ASIO driver).

QTC1 is the same mic as QTC40 and very close to QTC50. It's the same microphone AFAIK only the selection of the capsules is tighter for QTC50/M50.


/Peter
Old 28th October 2008
  #328
Lives for gear
 

Yes, they are above all mics and are clearly the best....NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The MKH symmetrical capsule series, including the 8000 are clean and lack distortion. As such they show up any deficiencies in the instrument, playing and acoustic as they don't hide it in the IM-distortion low level mush; you can certainly hear subtleties that you miss with other mics..

This means that if it's good it sounds good; but can be ruthless if it's not.

Other mics have "colour" and/or "character" - this can be good or bad, depending on your personal perspective.
John-this is getting really tiring.

We all know you think that the MKH mic's are the best in the world if not perfect-and probably both. And we all know that you think the new series is an improvement on perfection. And we've heard how the old series are absolutely accurate. And how the new series-though not sounding the same-are even more perfectly accurate. And we know that that you think all other mic's are colored. And we know that Sennheiser itself calls it's mic's "warm." And, in fact, the new series' is not flat-but more importantly-doesn't sound flat. Again, nothing wrong with that-it's just that they're not "accurate" as you say, and that other mic's are equally or more colorful in a desired way, and other mic's are definitely more "accurate," if that's what is wanted.

You know, there are some-actually, many!- other excellent mic's in the word.

I'm afraid you're following the Simpson model, where if everyone doesn't fall down and agree with you, then there's something wrong with their "conditioning" or their monitoring chain.

Give it up. The Sennheiser's are nice and useful mic's, and there are lots of other nice and useful mic's.
Old 28th October 2008
  #329
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEGG View Post
John-this is getting really tiring.
Just curious - why are you bringing this up now, quoting a posting that John wrote in July...?
Old 28th October 2008
  #330
I have been pleasantly surprised by the performance of the MKH 80## mics and also the newly acquired pair of MKH 800 Twins. I think they do outperform most mics out there, because so much of it is personal taste when it comes to mics, it would be impossible for anyone to say that any one piece of gear is the best... but for my tastes, I'm happy to have settled with these mics for my own use. I am really loving the Twins. They are pretty unique in that rather than setting a polar pattern and recording, you simply record both capsules independently and then choose your pattern at mix time. This feature is absolutely killer and now that I have it, would not want to record any other way. True you could simply get a pair of cardioid mics to do something similar, but they wouldn't be truly coincident and the ease of setup that comes with the MKH 800 Twin does account for something with me.

Some things that are not based on perception... signal to noise ratio or self noise. The Sennheisers are definitely towards the top of the heap in this metric.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
nobtwiddler / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
johnnyjellybean / High end
16
gar_lei / So much gear, so little time
7
dholzer / So much gear, so little time
2
angusdevil / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
3

Forum Jump
Forum Jump