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Keith Jarrett a umbria jazz 07 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 19th August 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattJazz View Post
WOW, bold comments from many of you.

Keith Jarret is a one of a kind. His playing is in it's own class.
I would not compare him to any of the others mentioned. His playing is on the same plane as some one like Ravi Shankar. That is how I hear it.

As far as the video - well, I understand a little. However with drastically shrinking audiences , even for Keith , he needs to cool it. He should have sent out his manager to be the bad guy - thats what Kenny G does. (Seriously, I have seen it)(I am talking business not music, so no jokes please)
Now people will see this over and over again and stay home and watch TV instead of spending harder and harder to earn dollars to see what? I get the whole vibe, presentation of the trio. But the common listener will not forgive him for these outbursts, not anymore.

well, just an opinion, I would still love to see him, but I am more deeply invested in the music. If he looses casual listeners he will no longer be in that exceptional pantheon of high payed Jazz musicians.
mp


i don't understand the whole problem he's got with taping or photography anyway....

is he selling pictures of himself in the concession booth?

the grateful dead, the dave matthews band, phish, mars volta, and a whole host of others set up taping stations for their fans...

they draw more on one gig than jarrett does on a whole tour...doesn't seem to hurt their business

(ps, i can name fifty pianists i like better than jarrett... of course, before this thread, i could only name 20!!!!)
Old 19th August 2007
  #32
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I have followed Keith Jarrett since the Koln Concert. He is no doubt extremely talented, but he has been a complete d--kwad since that time, and that my friends, was 30 years ago.

Bobby Knight was a basketball coach who is now known primarily for being a d--k.

Michael Vick is one of the most talented QB's ever to play football, and is now known primarily for being a d--k.

There are countless more.

When you abuse your position in the public eye, at some point you will fall. And when you do, you will fall hard.

It doesn't matter if you are famous for having been a d--k in the past. At a certain point people are just tired of your act. And guess what. They really don't have to take it.

It's a miracle he's gotten this far.

This co-dependent BS about what a great star Jarrett is, is just that. Total BS. Stardom does not give him extra rights. It has just given him a certain credit line in the public eye, one that he has been spending without regard to the consequences.

As I said, he's been a d--k for the last 30 years.

If he falls hard he's earned it all the way. It's been bought and payed for.
Old 19th August 2007
  #33
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Ouch...PS I think I recall a Paul McCartney gig where he refused to play unless the audience left all their leather jackets at the door...

(but obviously I'd agree to record Paul McCartney in a flash )
With or without your leather jacket on? heh
Old 19th August 2007
  #34
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Remoteness's Avatar
Excellent response. Very strong my man; very strong indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
man i can't believe how much this thread has pissed me off. i thought about it all morning.

you know, the truth of the matter is, keith jarrett is a piano player.

he's a good piano player, maybe even a great piano player, but he's still a piano player.

he has never, to my knowledge, written a composition that can be called, in any sense, a "standard."

his attitude is why jazz is so unloved by the masses.

now, compare jarrett's overall contribution's to jazz with someone like duke ellington's...

in the large scale scope of jazz music, jarrett is to ellington what a buzzing gnat is to a lion.

and ellington used to say, "always be kind to the waiters and waitresses... they're just like us... we're all working for tips."

this is the way you are supposed to conduct yourself in front of an audience... love them madly!

YouTube - Take the A Train - Duke Ellington 1969

especially when visiting a foreign country!
Old 19th August 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
BUT, i have to ask, if duke ellington played dances, indeed, if duke ellington JUDGED his success by how much the crowd was dancing, how can ANY jazz musician anywhere in the world boast that his crowd doesn't dance?

i mean, especially when all we're really doing is warming over what ellington did at some point in his career?

is it any wonder our music, jazz, a once vital art form, is now a tiny elitist turd circling the bottom of the toilet bowl one last flush from being washed away forever?

i resent jarrett.

i resent the whole "shut up and like it" attitude jazz musicians have adopted...

jarrett's attitude has NOTHING in common with jazz in the great tradition of the duke.
I hear you, I do. But like I said not everyone fits into that definition. I'm a jazz musician. I came at it later than Duke. As a matter of fact I got to Duke through Mingus, so it's a little convoluted. I fell in love with jazz because I considered it an art music. That's just me. I was never particularly enamoured with dance music. I do know much of jazz' developement had to do with it as a commercial enity where dance was its selling card. Jimmy Lunceford, Basie, Duke, Chick Webb, Benny Goodman. However much I enjoyed that, and I did listen to a fair amount coming up, and as an educator now I still listen, and enjoy much of it, it doesn't define what I personally love in the music.

I do agree that the snobism and elitism can get overbearing. And I do feel something terrible happened when jazz musicians became self conscious innovators. But the jazz I love truly began with Bud Powell, Dizzy, Bird, Monk and continued through Rollins, Trane and 60s Miles. I love jazz as art. I love Duke too. But I think there's room or everybody, not just a select few. I love the panorama of everyting that's out there. Makes it so much more interesting, ya know?
Old 19th August 2007
  #36
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WOW - what a great post and interesting topic.

In response to Soultranes observation, I just wanted to point out that Duke came into prominence during a very interesting period for Jazz. There is a distinct difference between the Dance Hall Jazz, which was essentially the popular music of it's time, to the transition into Bebop and the smaller seedy clubs in which that genre was generally performed in. This is when the essence of 'jazz attitude' sort of came into play IMO. The be-bop audience was not the same scene as the Dance Hall/Big Band scene.

So while Duke and KJ both play jazz, they are really playing at very different ends of the the genre. I am not saying that I agree with having utter disdain for your audience but the players from the bebop and experimental era's were often more complex, darker personalities than their big band / dance hall counter parts and that was largely a result of the audience and playing environments IMO. With that being said it's not hard to see why the Duke's of the world have a much different view on how to treat audiences than the Keith Jarrett's of the world.

KJ is an arrogant ass and a baby, however all grunts aside, he is a great improviser in the purest sense of creating something from essentially nothing (charts, arrangements, chord progressions etc). At his last show in Toronto he complained endlessly about the air conditioning to the point that it made many in the audience uncomfortable (including me). I agree with Henry in so far as many people now what to expect with Keith but it is interesting to note that he was banned from that Italian Jazz festival. When I talk to anyone who went to KJ's last Toronto show they all complained about his incessant whining during the show. It is sad the most poignant memory from his last Toronto appearance was his behavior and not his playing. Maybe the tide is turning........

Just as interesting/humorous side note;

I remember going to a KJ show about 20 years ago and one of my friends brought a DAT recorder to tape the show (personal listening only, not a bootlegger). Only problem was he was sitting beside KJ's wife Lets just say that Mr. and Mrs. Jarret are a good match for one another and she posesses a vocabulary similar to that of her husbands heh We managed to sneak off before she could get security to take the tape away!!!
Old 19th August 2007
  #37
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I think many of you are missing the point here. It's not that the "red light" is distracting in and of itself, it is the fact that the music is being recorded. I for one am entirely against unauthorised recordings (particularly if thay are to crop up on download sites, YouTube etc.) and can fully understand why an artist would get pissed off at his work being recorded without consent.

In terms of photography - for some people flash photography can be very annoying and distracting, so I think it's a valid point.

Just trying to stick up for the little man

Douglas.
Old 19th August 2007
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalstudio View Post
I think many of you are missing the point here. It's not that the "red light" is distracting in and of itself, it is the fact that the music is being recorded. I for one am entirely against unauthorised recordings (particularly if thay are to crop up on download sites, YouTube etc.) and can fully understand why an artist would get pissed off at his work being recorded without consent.

In terms of photography - for some people flash photography can be very annoying and distracting, so I think it's a valid point.

Just trying to stick up for the little man

Douglas.
You're missing the point here. I think we all agree that an audience at a 'modern' jazz or classical concert should behave in a certain way i.e be quiet during the performance, not make recordings or take photos if the artist wishes so, etc

That's all understood and I've been to a few 'chamber jazz' gigs myself where I turned around and asked some people to shut up because it was respectless to both the artists and the rest of the audience......

BUT (and this is a big BUT) there's absolutely no excuse for what KJ did here. He cusses out the audience BEFORE he even played one note. If he had the balls to dive into the audience and grab a 'flashlighter' by the collar, well that would have provided some entertainment value at least but the fact that he attacks everybody is just beyond belief. And how does he know that someone is recording the gig even if he's sitting upfront. He can't so again this is all just BS that he throws around to act important and seperate himself from the 'primitive' audience.

But not only that, he goes so far as to insult the whole city. Worst of all, he demands 'respect' fo his high art but the way he offends the audience with profane language and childish behaviour only will tense up the people who went to the gig.

If you're that much of a control-freak then you shouldn't release records at all. Who knows what uneducated folks might play it back while eating dinner and talking.
The horror!
Old 19th August 2007
  #39
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post

So while Duke and KJ both play jazz, they are really playing at very different ends of the the genre.
true true...

but, i guess the best answer is this;

YouTube - Duke Ellington - 1943 - It Don't Mean A Thing

(on a side note... i marvel at the mix... especially the bass....)
Old 19th August 2007
  #40
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Remoteness's Avatar
The important thing the audience needs to address the next time they go to a KJ concert is...


You must (gaff or duct) tape over the little red LED on your recorder!
Old 19th August 2007
  #41
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Dale's Avatar
 

Exclamation

while reading and agreeing with the sentiment on how pretentious many musicians are,
this was as the clip was loading, no broadband at home.
then I watched / heard the clip and thought

It is about time someone spoke up about how ill mannered most "patrons" are at concerts. Too many times I have been distracted by someone who feels that it is their "rights" to take a picture or discuss with a friend some point while the musician is performing. I go to a concert to HEAR the performance, to revel in the sound of the music and experience that personal gestalt.

When will the aesthetic of Listening become more fashionable???
listening is an activity that most do not seem to value, why???
I am not discussing going to a club to dance,
I am looking for common respect for the other people who go to HEAR the musicians.
Old 19th August 2007
  #42
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doorknocker's Avatar
A good showman in the Jerry Lee Lewis 'hump-da-piano' tradition:

YouTube - Keith Jarrett Solo Concert
Old 19th August 2007
  #43
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haha i wonder if his wife gets jealous!

and further, i wonder if the whole thing is not a schtick... a put on to seperate himself from the few thousand other pianists in the world that no one has heard of that can kill a pseudo-gospel ostinato in just the same fashion... if not better.

straight exhibitionism either way... hard to believe he doesn't want anyone taking a picture...

nice work if you can get it!!!

thelonious knows the difference between a piano and a woman!!!

monk makes something really hard (stride left hand) look really easy... while jarrett makes something pretty easy, (vamp on one chord) look really hard... no pun intended

YouTube - Thelonious Monk - Nice Work If You Can Get It
Old 19th August 2007
  #44
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Yeah, well that vamp is pretty ridiculously hard. Pretty impressive independence. One chord. But this is an old argument. Sometimes one chaord is very hard to aply on, especially major triad type chords.

Jarrett's always been quite the showman. Even going back to his early Charles Lloyd days. I think so much of his solo concerts is showmanship, both visually and dynamically. He'd deny it. He'd say its the spirit moving him. Maybe it's a little bit of both.

Yeah I've seen the Jarrett video before. Plus he's played it as an encore before.

Jarrett has a riculous left hand.
Old 19th August 2007
  #45
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Quote:
Thanks for posting this! Monk is a jazz player that always makes sense to me, you can really hear both the basic tune and structure as well as his variations and deviations.
And it swings and is still rooted in stride-piano. I don't know why but a lot of other jazz players make me go 'This is great but WHY do all these variations, are they necessary?' Whereas with Monk it just makes sense to me, I think his 'Plays Duke Ellington' record is one of the greatest jazz records ever made, at least it is to me.
Old 19th August 2007
  #46
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soultrane's Avatar
why it's silly for any jazz pianist to take themselves too seriously...

YouTube - Art Tatum
Old 19th August 2007
  #47
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Yeah, well that vamp is pretty ridiculously hard. Pretty impressive independence. One chord. But this is an old argument. Sometimes one chaord is very hard to aply on, especially major triad type chords.

Jarrett's always been quite the showman. Even going back to his early Charles Lloyd days. I think so much of his solo concerts is showmanship, both visually and dynamically. He'd deny it. He'd say its the spirit moving him. Maybe it's a little bit of both.

Yeah I've seen the Jarrett video before. Plus he's played it as an encore before.

Jarrett has a riculous left hand.

its not this hard...


YouTube - Art Tatum- Yesterdays

now THAT'S a ridiculous left hand...

in fact, if you close your eyes, it sounds like two left hands... and two right hands.
Old 19th August 2007
  #48
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I LOVE Monk. Thanks for that ST.

You know what I'd love to see? A time when we listen to musicians for what they do, based on what they do and stop comparing them as better than/worse than others. To me music is like meeting people. Maybe I should do this, but I don't. When I meet Bob, for example, I don't think immediately that Bob's not as great a person as Bill. I see Bob as Bob and compare him to Bob or actually don't compare him to anything at all. I can appreciate Bob for being Bob and for NOT being Bill.

I hear Jarrett and Oscar and Monk and Chick and Herbie -- they all have their fantastic universes and I appreciate them all for what they do. Thank god they're different, you know? Listening to music this way is much more fun for me.

I don't know. I think it's worth mentioning.
Old 19th August 2007
  #49
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Nobody's Tatum but Tatum! Come on!
Old 19th August 2007
  #50
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
I think his 'Plays Duke Ellington' record is one of the greatest jazz records ever made, at least it is to me.
yes yes...

and if you love the monk plays ellington record, check out

duke ellington live at the whitney...

a (mostly) solo piano recital from very late in the duke's career....

lots of cross pollination going on there!!!
Old 19th August 2007
  #51
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I LOVE Monk. Thanks for that ST.

You know what I'd love to see? A time when we listen to musicians for what they do, based on what they do and stop comparing them as better than/worse than others. To me music is like meeting people. Maybe I should do this, but I don't. When I meet Bob, for example, I don't think immediately that Bob's not as great a person as Bill. I see Bob as Bob and compare him to Bob or actually don't compare him to anything at all. I can appreciate Bob for being Bob and for NOT being Bill.

I hear Jarrett and Oscar and Monk and Chick and Herbie -- they all have their fantastic universes and I appreciate them all for what they do. Thank gos they're different, you know? Listening to music this way is much more fun for me.

I don't know. I think it's worth mentioning.
i hear you loud and clear henry... and i agree.

it's just when ONE guy adopts an "i'm so much more important than everyone else out here" attitude that i get my hackles up.
Old 19th August 2007
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
i hear you loud and clear henry... and i agree.

it's just when ONE guy adopts an "i'm so much more important than everyone else out here" attitude that i get my hackles up.
I know, I know. That kind of thing pisses me off too. And he's done it too much. But you know, it takes all kinds. Makes life more interesting.
Old 20th August 2007
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
A good showman in the Jerry Lee Lewis 'hump-da-piano' tradition:

YouTube - Keith Jarrett Solo Concert

i like the following comment best:

"hahah that was the funniest thing i've seen on youtube! i had no idea you could make love to a piano..."
Old 20th August 2007
  #54
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Dale's Avatar
 

Talking

so how many here can tell the difference between a nikon and a cannon
by the sound of its shutter???
or how do you get the sound of a video camera
that is running two seats down from you
out of your head. it is worse then that golden oldie!!!
Old 20th August 2007
  #55
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Dale I agree with you and with your first comment.
Old 20th August 2007
  #56
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
It is about time someone spoke up about how ill mannered most "patrons" are at concerts. Too many times I have been distracted by someone who feels that it is their "rights" to take a picture or discuss with a friend some point while the musician is performing. I go to a concert to HEAR the performance, to revel in the sound of the music and experience that personal gestalt.

When will the aesthetic of Listening become more fashionable???
listening is an activity that most do not seem to value, why???
I am not discussing going to a club to dance,
I am looking for common respect for the other people who go to HEAR the musicians.
Old 21st August 2007
  #57
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Dale's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

I find that some of the most subtle things that happen within music is the timbre intonations and that interplay can be very discreet ...
especially within the avant-garde jazz performance.
I was at a myers/fleck performance where they had to ask the blue-grassers to show some restraint and respect by BEING QUIET.
what with the whop-pees and whistles, those performance nuances were lost...
Old 22nd August 2007
  #58
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Keith Jarret has been an idol to me as a piano player since my youth.
I simply love his inspired improvisations like "the Köln concert" etc.
I think his improvised music is one of a kind in our time ( don´t´care too much for his classical interpretations or if he plays Jazz or not)

Like many other geniuses he is a mad man.
Has someone heard people ever LOVE Wagner as a person...?
His behaviour is not acceptable though.
If I was at the festival I would feel very pissed personally.

I have heard he suffers of a very rare nerve illness - not sure which was the name...
this would explain his outbreak in some kind.
Old 22nd August 2007
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
I have heard he suffers of a very rare nerve illness - not sure which was the name...
I think it's called 'Stardom'.
Old 22nd August 2007
  #60
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henryrobinett's Avatar
I was going to say psychosis.
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