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SOUND DEVICES... I seriously need to rant!!! Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 17th May 2006
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeky b
I had an idea that several high end US manufacturers could get together and set up their own distribution centre -
Why would they bother?
Really, I agree with you about the high prices, sometime lack of decent after sales service and the lack of stock some of theses dealers carry.
But Oz is such a small market. How many Cranesong STC8's do you think they can sell Australia wide? How many Aussies own an Api lunchbox loaded with Api modules?
The same goes for the UK.
The same gripes about dealers go on there. The same excuses about high taxes, shipping and exchange rates. At the end of the day I believe it's down to lack of competition. There are many ways to grab a Cranesong box in The States. Choose the cheapest, or the one with the best aftersales.
There is typically one distributor in the UK, one (or even NONE) in Australia. Not much competition there.
Old 17th May 2006
  #92
Here for the gear
 

Focusrite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossco
According to the Focusrite website, the Australian distributor is listed as Electric Factory in Melbourne. Perhaps somebody from their company can help us all out with an answer?
The Red series is very expensive just at the export price. ELFA usually bring them in special order; they AND the retailer keep the margins super skinny because of the high price.

The RRP price that is in print is old and not a true reflection of the real price.
Old 17th May 2006
  #93
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cheeky b's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpin
Just be mindful (and yes I work in the Australian products industry) that it's a tough gig working in a retail store. There is a lot of hard yards to go through to make only a meager living.....
........
And think about this: when you have finished your record or have your band ready to go on the raod; you're going to want Australian people to buy the CD, pay for the download and pay at the door to see your gig. Is it inequitable then that the local supply industry is disregarded?

IT'S ALL WELL AND FUN TO HAVE A GOOD BITCH ABOUT THE CAPER ON CHAT, BUT PLEASE TAKE A SECOND TO SEE IT ALL FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
"Australian products industry", what's that then?

Of course there is another side and of course there are arseholes in the general public. But if you get into the retail game that goes with the territory - no use bleating about it, is there? I think most people here are aware that there are special circumstances in Australia which I won't go into again and a lot of equipment is reasonably priced considering. But there are certain items and occasions where it is just obvious that someone, somewhere is taking the piss and that's when things get nasty and the whole industry and/or a specific retailer loses a lot of Brownie points.

For example, the Logic Pro upgrade debacle with electric factory, they set a ridiculously high price near to twice the US and way more than NZ - which totally undermined their reasons for doing so. Lots of people said bollocks, I'll buy overseas and I'm one of them. Never did it before, now I have no qualms and I'm not alone. Plus I'll never buy anything distributed by elfa if at all possible - again not alone.
All because someone got too greedy, you can't blame the punters for that.

As to your arguments about shop workers being the backbone of the industry, please! I've read this nonsense before in another forum. There's hardly any shops anyway and what have magazines got to do with it? Huge percentage? You're having a giraffe. And so what anyway, do you seriously think people will stop buying equipment if there are less shops and distributors. And how much money goes back into the 'industry'? Makes no bloody logical sense whatsoever. Ditto with CD, gig download question. Will equipment retailers give a discount if your record doesn't sell? - seeing as we're spreading the love and all.

It's a tricky situation for everyone but the market will decide and these days that includes the internet. Tough for some, but there it is.
Old 17th May 2006
  #94
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David Robinson's Avatar
 

the right a**h*** j. howard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
Johnny Howard?
this bloke has done more to dismantle the music industry in australia than any thing else. he hates us. and would exterminate us if he could.
we are headed for worst conditions here.
Old 17th May 2006
  #95
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpin
The Red series is very expensive just at the export price. ELFA usually bring them in special order; they AND the retailer keep the margins super skinny because of the high price.

The RRP price that is in print is old and not a true reflection of the real price.

Split, thanks for your reply. I'm unlcear what you mean by "very expensive just at the export price". Does that mean that Focusrite have a different export price for Australia than say the U.S.?
And if so why?
Shouldn't the price just be the price?
And if that's the case, then how can they expect to shift much product in Australia when the final price is just so uncompetitive?
Last year I purhcased an ISA 428 for $1500 less than the local price.

Surely Focusrite are aware of the large price differences and really don't care much for the Australian market?
Old 17th May 2006
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossco
Split, thanks for your reply. I'm unlcear what you mean by "very expensive just at the export price". Does that mean that Focusrite have a different export price for Australia than say the U.S.?
And if so why?
Shouldn't the price just be the price?
And if that's the case, then how can they expect to shift much product in Australia when the final price is just so uncompetitive?
Last year I purhcased an ISA 428 for $1500 less than the local price.

Surely Focusrite are aware of the large price differences and really don't care much for the Australian market?
The units are very expensive to manufacture... all made in the UK and they have had price rises in the lastb 2 years. being so expensive, the distributor and the retailers work together to keep the price down.
Old 17th May 2006
  #97
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames
Who is importing Great River into Aus?
or Groove Tubes?

JR
Awave are the Aussie distributor for Great River (amongst many other indulgent goodies)..and we have stock 99.9% of the time..
Anyone is welcome to take a test drive..
Old 17th May 2006
  #98
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpin
Just be mindful (and yes I work in the Australian products industry) that it's a tough gig working in a retail store. There is a lot of hard yards to go through to make only a meager living. Many customers want to play the "I know more than you" or "I'm a better muso than you" game that it's no wonder store guys to become cynical and frustrated. Generally, the nicer the customer the better the deal and service. If you go into a store and act like an arse, you'll get treated back the same way.

Store guys are also not perfect and there are some real nasty pricks in the caper...

The wholesalers and retailers of the Australian music products business are honestly not trying to rip anyone off. Yep, you can buy a number of brands cheaper overseas. But this is because manufacturers are so often going direct to the stores in the USA.

Australia does not have the population to make going direct, in most cases, a worthwhile venture.

Here are some perspectives of which just to be mindful. And I'm not looking for an argument, just keep this in mind.

1) If everybody buys off shore there will be no retail stores in the future. And that means young kids don't get to go check out stuff, get inspired or even have a local store where they can get lessons. You're all smart enought to extrapolate where that might go. eg: it's an hour to the gig and the guitar player needs a new lead, strap or some single .009 strings.

What's going to happen; Order them on line and wait a week?

EM-U and Ensoniq decided that Australia was not worth dealing with and now can only be bother dealing in Europe and the USA. If all vendors took this attitude, we'd all be very disspointed I'm sure.

2) All the store guys, dudes in the hire shops, people in wholesale, those that write magazine articles, that own the magazines (Like Audio Technology which is an independant Australian run magazine), the technicians in the stores and distributors, the guys and gals that do the accounts, the phone sales guys, the sales reps etc...etc...

These people make up a huge perecentage of giging and working muscians.

PARTICULARLY IN THE ORGINAL MUSIC SCENE

So every time you screw for a deal or send your money off shore, you take money out of the industry as a whole.

And it's not that you're not entitled to hustle for a deal and good service; just remember that the more you screw for a deal, the less enthusiastic a store guy will be when you call for service.

Because margins have shrunk so much and eveyone wants a "great price" store guys have to always be on the hunt for the next opportunity. This means that there is less time to offer support.

It's more about the financial viability of the business than being pricks for the sake of it.

And think about this: when you have finished your record or have your band ready to go on the raod; you're going to want Australian people to buy the CD, pay for the download and pay at the door to see your gig. Is it inequitable then that the local supply industry is disregarded?

IT'S ALL WELL AND FUN TO HAVE A GOOD BITCH ABOUT THE CAPER ON CHAT, BUT PLEASE TAKE A SECOND TO SEE IT ALL FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
I always knew you were a Slut, Splitpin
Old 17th May 2006
  #99
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awavian
Awave are the Aussie distributor for Great River (amongst many other indulgent goodies)..and we have stock 99.9% of the time..
Anyone is welcome to take a test drive..
hiya,

What is the aussie price for the ME-1NV?

James
Old 17th May 2006
  #100
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames
hiya,

What is the aussie price for the ME-1NV?

James
Hi there..
The Australian RRP is $1799 including GST etc...
You will do better than that !
Old 17th May 2006
  #101
Lives for gear
 

I shop at nearly all Sydney stores mentioned and I must say I haven't had any problems with Sounddevices. I have bought all my Macs and Protools systems from them and if any problem happens along with the MAc or PT, they fix it on the spot with no charge. You can't beat that and they know what they're doing. With Turra or Inter you're on your own, they're just salesmen.

Nick
Old 17th May 2006
  #102
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpin
The units are very expensive to manufacture... all made in the UK and they have had price rises in the lastb 2 years. being so expensive, the distributor and the retailers work together to keep the price down.
Splitpin, this is just going around in circles. I understand the quality of the ISA 428product, where they're made and the price rises etc. , but surely these price rises are the same for the U.S. where I purchased mine?

I still paid the markup to the manufacturer, the shop markup, freight, insurance and taxes and still saved a whopping $1500.

Surely the warranty doesn't cost $1500.

The real answer lies elsewhere and goes to the heart of our discontent: that for decades we have been paying far too much because of these unfair margins.
Old 17th May 2006
  #103
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Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awavian
Awave are the Aussie distributor for Great River (amongst many other indulgent goodies)..and we have stock 99.9% of the time..
Anyone is welcome to take a test drive..
Just have to add that Awave have always given me excellent service.

Best regards,

Haigbabe
Old 17th May 2006
  #104
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Kingtone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aearth
With Turra or Inter you're on your own, they're just salesmen.

Nick

Nick... you know my problems ive had with devices. ...
turra are not just salesmen. they have VERY good protools support!

you just dont like em cos they dont sell chandler!!!
Old 18th May 2006
  #105
Here for the gear
 

Cost of running a music producst business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossco
Splitpin, this is just going around in circles. I understand the quality of the ISA 428product, where they're made and the price rises etc. , but surely these price rises are the same for the U.S. where I purchased mine?

I still paid the markup to the manufacturer, the shop markup, freight, insurance and taxes and still saved a whopping $1500.

Surely the warranty doesn't cost $1500.

The real answer lies elsewhere and goes to the heart of our discontent: that for decades we have been paying far too much because of these unfair margins.
"Unfair margin"... this is heart of the matter.

But what is an unfair margin? What would people accept as reasonable profit margin for retailers and distributors to make?

The music products business is low turnover (unlike white goods, computers etc...) so the margin needs to be higher than the tiny margins, for example, Apple Resellers make; but you make you position clear. What is an acceptible margin.
Old 18th May 2006
  #106
Gear Maniac
 

Splitpin, you make a good point about the low volume nature of the business, but to answer the question of fair margins, my best guess is that people have an inbuilt fairness meter-i.e. this is fair but this is not.
And because the average pun ter now has the world at his door, via the internet, an increasing number of people are answering the question and shopping offshore.
Old 18th May 2006
  #107
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Margin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossco
Splitpin, you make a good point about the low volume nature of the business, but to answer the question of fair margins, my best guess is that people have an inbuilt fairness meter-i.e. this is fair but this is not.
And because the average pun ter now has the world at his door, via the internet, an increasing number of people are answering the question and shopping offshore.
Well retailers and distributors need to be profitable so margins need to be reasonable. The price war with the internet is a problem for the industry because the more that business goes over seas the lower the tunrover locally, thus margin retention becomes a priority.

If the retailers and distributors end being unable to compete profitably, the industry will contract.

All we would ask you guys is that you keep this in mind as you go about being musicians. Sure go hustle a deal and expect a level of price and service that keeps you happy, but start with your local retailer when you need some kit.
Old 18th May 2006
  #108
Gear Maniac
 

Splitpin, fair enough. Points taken. Cheers.
Old 18th May 2006
  #109
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splitpin,

I do understand you sell hardly any hi end gear.
Maybe some of it is the marking up of prices. Sorry its true. I spent a lot of money over the years on gear and go differnt brand rather then grey most of the time. Except if there is no stock....
There is competition from other distributors(you know there are more then one brand) in OZ as well as Grey market.
When looking at say a 2buss compressor you have options
API 2500 US RRP US$2995 OZ RRP price AUD$4500
Al smart C2 US RRP US$2995 OZ price AUD$5610
Pendulum es-8 US RRP US$3450 OZ RRP price. AUD$4995 (one on sale for $3899)
Focusrite Red3 US RRP US$3895 OZ RRP price AUD$10499
Manley Vari Mu US RRP US$4000 OZ RRP price AUD$8000
Cranesong STC8 US RRP US$4450 OZ RRP Price AUD$6999
Now I would rule out the Manley and the Red3 to start with just as the price hike.
I mean that is a huge markup on a Red3.

I know when I got my Royer SF12 from Australian Audio it came broken after 10 days turned into 10 weeks waiting. I had to talk to Royer myself about the issue. They were great and paid for fedex in and out for a replacement. Although really I do not think I got anything out of buying local
Australian Audio do not do Royer anymore and you see so many more of them around since Mixmasters do them. They instantly went down $1k for a R121.
I know so so so many people who buy grey now. It will get worse for the distributors who do not work out you can sell one for $1500 markup or sell 6 for $500 markup and make twice as muchtutt
Old 18th May 2006
  #110
Led
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Man I'm so sick of Oz distributors saying 'we need to make a fair markup' and 'support local' while in the same breath claiming the internet is responsible for their problems. Get over it. Computers took the @ss out of our income market way before it affected you guys but the only way we can deal with it is to offer a better service for the money, or supply something home studios can't, so maybe you all should think about upping the service level (except for a few) or maybe some bonus for us to buy the gear from you. The days of easy profit and limited service are over for you, and for printing companies, and Kodak and graphic designers and travel agents and etc....... maybe you shoulda got a trade to fall back on.
Old 18th May 2006
  #111
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpin
The units are very expensive to manufacture... all made in the UK and they have had price rises in the lastb 2 years. being so expensive, the distributor and the retailers work together to keep the price down.

Are we talking Red series? Theres no reason why they should be THAT expensive to make. If we can make and sell a TMP8 for under $3k without anything like the economies of scale Focusrite have, I dont have much sympathy for them charging that much for the Red mic pre.

I think its all about making them seem better by jacking up the price. There are a few very popular bits of gear that I suspect of this. That, to me, is morally equivilant to the dealers that charge <30% margains and then dont carry anything in stock, wont return your phone calls, know nothing about their products and keep you for half an hour every time you ask a question while they search their databases for a price on something thats sitting next to them.


For the record I dont mind paying a fair margain when I buy gear from a local shop, as long as I feel like theyre providing a service I need. For me the main thing is having what I want in stock, or just a few days away, and being able to rely on what the salesman tells me about when it will be here. That saves me enough hastle to keep me off ebay. Unfortunately that amount of service has in the past, not been available in Brisbane. At least not reliably.

But I know I can always go and see Entropy at Brisbane Sound and hell do his best to get me what Im looking for. In fact Im going to drop by there tomorrow!


M
Old 18th May 2006
  #112
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe
Just have to add that Awave have always given me excellent service.

Best regards,

Haigbabe
Thanks for the kind words, haigbabe...
Without entering into the debate..
From my perspective, it is really basic..
I love great gear, as we all do...
We need to have access to all the lovely ear candy, and the pricing should not be ambigous from country to country.
Whatever, and however the outcome, the pricing needs to reflect a system by which Australian slutz are happy to support locally.. If this means that we all need to make less (retailers and distributors), then so be it..Something has to give..We all need to survive, however the secret is not to be greedy . In return, all is required is support..I don't think anyone has any issue with support if they can see the end result is fair..
Old 18th May 2006
  #113
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awavian
Whatever, and however the outcome, the pricing needs to reflect a system by which Australian slutz are happy to support locally..
Absolutely correct! Anything Hi endish, except maybe avalon, seems way out of the ballpark pricewise, and IMO this has left a general imprint that any 'candy' stuff is not going to be available or worth buying in Australia..
The subject of support is interesting. If I did fork out $10.5k on a red3, they would have to send it to me as I'm not local, and if it broke, what would happen? I'm sure they wouldn't have one on the shelf ready to send me while mine was getting looked at. Is it 'that' much different to having to send it back to the US in the off chance the unit faulted?
It would be great if a retailer/importer/with manufacturer would look into making the higher end stuff available at a decent price. I'm sure everyone would agree that they would turn more products over. Direct US to AUS of red3 from sweetwater would be $4305. How many of us would have one of these at that price? Don't worry, I know I'm dreaming
Old 18th May 2006
  #114
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimSira
Absolutely correct! Anything Hi endish, except maybe avalon, seems way out of the ballpark pricewise, and IMO this has left a general imprint that any 'candy' stuff is not going to be available or worth buying in Australia..
The subject of support is interesting. If I did fork out $10.5k on a red3, they would have to send it to me as I'm not local, and if it broke, what would happen? I'm sure they wouldn't have one on the shelf ready to send me while mine was getting looked at. Is it 'that' much different to having to send it back to the US in the off chance the unit faulted?
It would be great if a retailer/importer/with manufacturer would look into making the higher end stuff available at a decent price. I'm sure everyone would agree that they would turn more products over. Direct US to AUS of red3 from sweetwater would be $4305. How many of us would have one of these at that price? Don't worry, I know I'm dreaming
Not everything !!

Hopefully some of us are making a difference...
Old 19th May 2006
  #115
Led
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Yeah, you Awavey guys are doin it good. You could move a little closer to the city though. I like the website red hot specials you have. I need another EZ rack. Can you make the black one a special next month (hint hint)
Old 19th May 2006
  #116
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As I said before I have brought a lot of stuff through awave and mixmasters and got great service. Also brought a lot of stuff from Mannys local as well.
Just recently Lewis (Awave) lent me a Lavry DA and a Mytek DA so I could test them over a weekend head to head to see which I would buy.
Mick from mixmasters has done the same before given me one of each of stuff they stock.
As they both know I most likey buy one.

Other stuff that some distributors are supposed to sell. Well they have no stock, you can only try if you buy, oh you have to wait 4-6 weeks before we get it in via slow ship to save costs and hey then can you pay us a markup on that great service .
Old 19th May 2006
  #117
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Awavian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Led
Yeah, you Awavey guys are doin it good. You could move a little closer to the city though. I like the website red hot specials you have. I need another EZ rack. Can you make the black one a special next month (hint hint)
Do you mean the 14 U rack in black ?
maybe you should check the web page next week !
Old 19th May 2006
  #118
Led
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Oh I'll check it.......don't you worry about that.
Does anyone really buy those red ones?
Old 19th May 2006
  #119
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led
Oh I'll check it.......don't you worry about that.
Does anyone really buy those red ones?
I owned a Red 7 for about 2 years.
It's nice, but they are not my go to pre.
I paid £1000 for it second hand, used it for a project then sold it for £1100.

Did a drum tracking session recently with 2 x Red 1's- they are great, but very clean.

To be honest though I'm a little over the Focusrite sound.
I'd never buy a Red in Oz. Far too expensive and there are better options for your guys to be honest.
Avalon, Great River etc.
Old 20th May 2006
  #120
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HiString's Avatar
 

FFS guys, this is not and has not been just a problem with high end gear.

As an example...............

Over 2 years ago this issue was raised elsewhere on the www in regard to a certain brand of US sourced, Asian made mics which are still distributed by the boy wonder in SA. Prior to his succumbing to urgings from the US company, on one popular model alone, the difference between his import cost and the RRP was approx., in excess of 200% and the assumed dealer cost still gave around 100%. The parent company worked for quite some time to get some parity between the o/seas pricing and Aust., pricing BUT don't for one second believe 98% of what any importer/distributor tells you. And the fact that the distributor was quite prepared to "backdoor" trade cheaper than his dealers doesn't paint a pretty picture of his business ethics.

And before anyone decides to jump me for the above, I still have somewhere the REAL facts and figures on a variety of products I accumulated at the time.

Unfortunately, in most cases the retail outlets are between a rock (the distributors) and a hard place (the consumers) and are all to frequently populated by wanna be musos who have SFA product knowledge and even less real world experience.

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