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Too loud!
Old 1 day ago
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I feel bad for neglecting this statement, which deserves equal attention to the others. In what way are earplugs rejected and the earplug wearer impaired?
I have been listening on cans for 50yrs or more, professionally and for musical appreciation
I have worn soft earplugs at night for the past 15 yrs
The earplugs eventually caused infection and damage
Even though they were new every night
The ear canal is not designed for obstruction
The cans never did and my hearing is still capable of 10 KHz on the Sono mixer at normal levels
I can manage 12KHz on a sweep test
By plastic I mean malleability, old ears are more brittle and prone to stress and tiredness
Recently recording two pianos in an Edwardian hall it was interrupted by a loud PA outside the event
I went to investigate, its spl meter was reading 88dB
Legal, but loud because of compression and heavy bottom end
I would keep away from such arrays as I know what damage they can bring later on
Live pop can get into the 100dB ,that is a definite destructive force
Diva sopranos and choirs can generate impressive and destructive hot peaks too, I had that recently with a choir of 30 in close proximity, its softer peaks though and less damaging, putting the cans on helps.
Roger
Old 1 day ago
  #32
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
It also references the more general lowering of the upper frequency hearing limit with age. That isn’t a loss of “elasticity” or an inability to tolerate loud music. It isn’t deafness, except to dog whistles and very high frequency mechanical rotation whines, like very high rpm turbines and dental tools.
Presbycusis is more than just a loss of upper frequencies. And most of them you don't actually "lose". Rather, they just have to be louder for you to hear them. And the effect is of course non-linear. And of course, it's almost always different in your two ears (doctors almost always tell you there's no such thing as a "pair" of ears or eyes -- each of us has two separate ears, eyes, hands, elbows, etc.). And the term "upper frequencies" is a variable; presbycusis can extend way farther down the spectrum than most of us would like to think. It's usually way below dog whistles and dental tools. It usually includes important speech frequencies, which is why old people struggle to understand what people say -- it points out the difference between "hearing" and "understanding". A difference most of us haven't had to deal with yet.

With that, oldsters often experience hyperacusis (your "inability to tolerate loud music") also. And some level of sensitivity loss (threshold shift, losing the softer sounds, which again can be nonlinear across frequency). The combination of the three is maddening, both to the afflicted and the afflicted's family and friends. Basically, they have to turn the TV up louder to hear the dialog, but if it's too loud it hurts to hear the dialog. Then if it's just right, they still miss some of the dialog because they can't hear some of the consonants and all that stuff above around 3kHz.

Think of the combination of presbycusis, hyperacusis, and threshold shift as needing a compressor, some EQ, and more amplification to hear well. This is what hearing aids do. Tailored for each ear, of course. Sigh...

This, if we live long enough (and no treatment / cure is found) is what's waiting for all of us -- it's why so many of our parents wear hearing aids, and why they need so many trips to the audiologist to "dial it in". It's a delicate balance that's constantly changing.
Old 1 day ago
  #33
Lives for gear
The only people in my close family who use or used hearing aids were my father, who was a WW2 navy pilot trainer who spent endless hours for four years in open cockpits, and my wife’s father, who is a lifelong hunter and gun enthusiast (60+ guns at present). Profound hearing loss with age is not inevitable and universal.
Old 1 day ago
  #34
I've worn ear plugs since the 1970's. It did pay off. My audiologist says I test better than nearly all the 18 year olds she tests. She says only small kids now test with undamaged ears due to ear buds.

A pair of plugs travel with me everywhere. I also shoot loud guns too, it worked for that as well.
Old 23 hours ago
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
It has always been my understanding that our eardrums thicken as we age, and that is a factor in the loss of the ability to hear high frequencies.

http://hearinglosshelp.com/blog/eard...ges-as-we-age/
I think that the main loss of hearing is when sounds are too loud and damage the hairs which sense the sound and transmit to the brain. These do no repair and so become fewer and fewer.

Last edited by Geoff Poulton; 23 hours ago at 09:53 PM..
Old 23 hours ago
  #36
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
I think that the main loss of hearing is when sounds are too loud and damage the hairs which sense the sound and which transmit to the brain. These do no repair and so become fewer and fewer.
I agree that over-exposure to loud sound is likely the primary cause of "typical" hearing losses.
Old 21 hours ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
What part of the attached article are you promoting?
Quote:
It also references the more general lowering of the upper frequency hearing limit with age.
This bit, that despite looking after your hearing in your youth, it will still degrade "normally" with age.
Old 15 hours ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
This bit, that despite looking after your hearing in your youth, it will still degrade "normally" with age.
It is more accurate to say that your upper frequency limit shifts. But the suggestion that apart from that your hearing “degrades” with age, unless you have abused your hearing, isn’t in the literature I have read. You don’t get phase shift, increased distortion or lack of transient response, for examples.
Old 11 hours ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Think of the combination of presbycusis, hyperacusis, and threshold shift as needing a compressor, some EQ, and more amplification to hear well. This is what hearing aids do. Tailored for each ear, of course. Sigh...

This, if we live long enough (and no treatment / cure is found) is what's waiting for all of us -- it's why so many of our parents wear hearing aids, and why they need so many trips to the audiologist to "dial it in". It's a delicate balance that's constantly changing.
Then add in the factor that hearing tests are usually conducted using steady-state tones, rather than a morphing poly-tonal signal which reflects the speech and other everyday acoustic phenomena that makes up our lifelong hearing panorama.

Even the police and ambulance sirens are engineered for this, rather than a fixed frequency, something the audiologists have been slow to catch onto !
Old 6 hours ago
  #40
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
The only people in my close family who use or used hearing aids were my father, who was a WW2 navy pilot trainer who spent endless hours for four years in open cockpits, and my wife’s father, who is a lifelong hunter and gun enthusiast (60+ guns at present). Profound hearing loss with age is not inevitable and universal.
Presbycusis is a function of aging by definition. Denying that your hearing will deteriorate with age is about as pointless as arguing that your eyesight won't deteriorate with age, or that your skin won't wrinkle with age.

That said, people are remarkably resilient and come up with a variety of coping mechanisms. I've known many old people who were really good at lip reading. They could pick up on the cues of body language better than most too. So their hearing loss did not stop them from communicating. But it does interfere, slow them down, embarrass them, and frustrate the tar out of them sometimes. So they tell me. Would that I live so long that I find out myself.
Old 5 hours ago
  #41
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Then add in the factor that hearing tests are usually conducted using steady-state tones, rather than a morphing poly-tonal signal which reflects the speech and other everyday acoustic phenomena that makes up our lifelong hearing panorama.
If I'm going to argue with audiologists about hearing tests, I'm going to argue about how their testing is nearly 100% about human speech. It's way too hard to find an audiologist who has an interest in music, much less one who is interested in helping you hear music better.
Old 5 hours ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
If I'm going to argue with audiologists about hearing tests, I'm going to argue about how their testing is nearly 100% about human speech. It's way too hard to find an audiologist who has an interest in music, much less one who is interested in helping you hear music better.
I sense a market niche opening here: audiologists who specialize in music professionals' specific needs It's arguable that our acuity is attuned to such a particular corner of the listening experience that no typical test unravels it successfully: detecting miniscule amounts of distortion, stereo anomalies, wet/dry ratios, compression, noise reduction artifacts etc etc.

I'm sure we could all collectively brainstorm and provide samples and examples of test materials for these phenomena....which are far more fine-grained than the crass "can you hear this tone/word" benchmarks of the typical audiologist.

Let's not be too unkind to the profession...the latter criterion is all that matters materially to those who use this faculty for getting by in the world of conversing socially and professionally....whereas we can and do operate in the wordless realm of musical nuance, and its faithful capture and rendering.
Old 5 hours ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I've known many old people who were really good at lip reading.
Yeah, sure... I was at a McCartney show a couple of years ago where 17,000 mostly older people were lip reading the crap out of the performance, or perhaps just enjoying the lighting. If you are correct, they couldn’t have been hearing much.
You have the vocabulary correct, but are exaggerating the degree and practical effect of changes in hearing with age, apart from those with a genetic predisposition or those who have over their lives damaged their hearing as has been discussed at length here.
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