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Rode Launches TF-5 Mics
Old 4 weeks ago
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Are you saying you don't buy a new, 'latest bells and whistles' desk every 2 years, like everyone else...and don't throw them away if they break, like everyone else ? After a few years on that consumerist treadmill, you start to see a trend emerging.....
hm, let's see what (larger) desks i've still got* (not counting those i bought but sold again after some years such as a studer 980, amek angela, midas xl4, yamaha pm5d):

- mci jh-500 (built in the mid seventies, bought in the early nineties, still in use in one of my studios)

- yamaha pm3500 (dunno production run, possibly in the eighties, bought back then, still in use, although rarely)

- yamaha dm2000 (from 2000, bought back then, still in use in one of my studios)

- sony dmx-r100 (bought in the 2000's, still in use in one of my studios)

- studer vista 1 (bought in the last 5 years, one in one of my studios, another one mostly on the road/used for live recording/mixing/broadcasting)


i'm a dinosaur as i'm stuck with a very old concept (and some very old desks): mixing on desks! i therefore (and only for this reason) do not tend to throw them away, not even if they break: i have them fixed - what's worse though, i haven't bought any of them new?! shame on me! what would happen to our industry if buying them second hand, holding onto them, maintaining them, even sharing them with friends would emerge as a trend?!?

rode then would sell but those five tfm-50's i mentioned previously as we'll share them amongst ambitious engineers... - now let's talk about financing them!


* forgot the fairlight! set me back a fortune; got me a few jobs but certainly never paid back... - must still be somewhere! but where?!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 04:36 PM.. Reason: edited three times
Old 4 weeks ago
  #122
I'm starting a new topic! Nananana!

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #123
I see one if two possible reasons for the TFM-50 price.

A: the capsule is actually fitted into a big a$$ed diamond.
B. Peter Freedman is criminally insane and should be relocated to a continent sized penal colony somewhere in Oceania.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
B. Peter Freedman is criminally insane and should be relocated to a continent sized penal colony somewhere in Oceania.
Oh, wait!

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #125
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
I see one if two possible reasons for the TFM-50 price.

A: the capsule is actually fitted into a big a$$ed diamond.
B. Peter Freedman is criminally insane and should be relocated to a continent sized penal colony somewhere in Oceania.


Where would you send those poor souls to who is willing to buy it at that price? It has to be somewhere even worse than the penal colony, but where?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
Where would you send those poor souls to who is willing to buy it at that price? It has to be somewhere even worse than the penal colony, but where?
I suppose they could just be locked inside their own massive Scrooge McDuckian vaults.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #127
Lives for gear
So....is the TF-5 is a customized/upgraded variation on the NT-5? What does the extra $1,000 on the purchase price actually buy? What's the difference between the NT-5 and the TF-5?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
So....is the TF-5 is a customized/upgraded variation on the NT-5? What does the extra $1,000 on the purchase price actually buy? What's the difference between the NT-5 and the TF-5?
I think the NT-5 was designed by Nony Taulkner
Old 4 weeks ago
  #129
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jnorman's Avatar
Hahaha
Old 4 weeks ago
  #130
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta View Post
I think the NT-5 was designed by Nony Taulkner
Seriously? Hope that was a mistake!

Last edited by shosty; 4 weeks ago at 10:42 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shosty View Post
Seriously? Hope that was a mistake!
...
Attached Thumbnails
Rode Launches TF-5 Mics-fullsizeoutput_2d3e.jpeg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #132
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Plush's Avatar
Some pretty funny stuff here--mostly three things: 1. The posts by those who thought the new Rode 50 type mic would be inexpensive; and 2. the people who say that the M50 is not a special sound. It is a special sound quite removed from ANY other mic. 3. is the denial here to recognize that Tony F. is the world's preeminent M50 microphone expert. He knows the sound of the M50 better than anyone. Primarily this is because he has worked with many different M50's in top top halls and rooms for so many decades.

You're mistaken if you wrote that there's no huge sonic difference between ANY super high quality mic and a M50. Also sorely wrong if you wrote that the reputation of the M50 is a lie perpetuated by elitists. Nonsense! To read someone saying that is really bad news. Simply ignorant and / or misinformed.

The M50 has a very special sound starting with its very recognizable huge bass report. Somewhat exaggerated and woolly--but never sounding over done. The M50's magical telescoping pick up where it can reach out from quite far away and brilliantly portray a low brass section or massed string sound. Like no other mic, hence the legandary desirability. It's portrayal of the hall / room is special.

I have no idea why it has taken so long to bring the Rode 50 type mic to market. I imagine a company as advanced as Rode might have worked on an M50 electronic emulation circuit working together with the chosen tube so that the mic would be a model of the best M50 Tony F. had ever heard. But that is probably not the case.

Gearslutz is so removed from big league recording. Read orchestral recording by big media companies and movie studios and companies making on-line live orchestra broadcasts. MEDIA is king these days. These companies buy mics like these by the dozen. Rode will sell hundreds of those mics.

The GS response is the response of a hobbyist. That is why there is such shock expressed here at the Rode TF50 price. Yet these new mics are a lot less expensive than any M50.


How CAN GS'ers put them to work?

I liked seeing that YouTube clip where Tony F. is using the TF50 as a main stereo pair on a singer, wind instrument, and piano. A really nice use in chamber music. Useful for GS'ers in orchestra work. When you are earning $6000-$8,000 a week recording orchestra, the TF50 is not an extravagant expense.

Maybe have the production company buy 2 or 3 for your use as a condition of you coming onto the job.

Only a few pros will do it.

I look forward to hearing them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #133
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boojum's Avatar
Talk, talk, talk. ONE test is worth a thousand opinions. Let's hear the mic not the BS.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #134
Lives for gear
Yet more talk, talk, talk....one thing that's changed since the M50 was born and then retired (1951-1971): there were very few or no independent recordists like Tony Faulkner, Plush and their ilk. The only customers would have been record companies like Decca, EMI, DG, RCA and the government-owned and run classical broadcast corporations (radio and TV) like BBC, ORTF, ABC (in Australia)....I can't speak for the North American landscape, but I doubt it was very different.

http://recordinghacks.com/pdf/neumann/M50-history.pdf

Don't forget that the BBC specified for and commissioned the drafting and production of the Coles 4038 by STC....and independent recordists have benefitted from that original commission ever since. Similar story with the M50 and North West German Broadcast radio corporation, around 1948 .... http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/M-50


I raise these 'allegiances' between mic manufacturers and radio/TV and recording companies to illustrate that the development and production costs would have been rolled into the selling price of the mics...and very likely absorbed by the customers, as willing (and captive !) participants/initiators of the production process.

Similar forces or expectations might be expected to pertain in the case of the Rode TFM50 offering ....and the hobbyists in GS will simply have to front the cash or drool from the sidelines...same as if we developed a sudden hankering for an Arri Alexa camera lol ! If you want to play with Big Boy Toys....expect to pay their prices

Readers here with an innate aversion to HF peaks or shelves in new mic response charts should remove themselves immediately from the TFM-50 waiting lists....you have to raise a quizzical smile, that these 2 very desirable mics (4038, M50) have such significant divergence from 'theoretically ideal flat response'

Finally, those with pricing complaints about the TFM50 clearly haven't compared with the admission ticket to the nearest available Neumann offering, the M150 Tube: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/M-150.

One wonders how different it might be in sound quality to the Rode ?

At yet lower cost, but still featuring the 40mm sphere, is Neumann's TLM50: https://web.archive.org/web/20140915...s/meumann.html

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/TLM-50

Neither the TLM50 nor M150 Tube find much affection in this forum....is it price, performance....or the lack of TF's name ? I gather he doesn't have much time for these 'modern incarnations' of the M50, will the Rode equivalent bust that ?

Last edited by studer58; 4 weeks ago at 04:56 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #135
Lives for gear
To give a comprehensive insider's history of the technical battles engaged in by Neumann from 1951 to post 2000, in bringing capsule performance stability to the various versions of the "50 mics", this makes for great reading by Martin Schneider: http://recordinghacks.com/pdf/neuman..._schneider.pdf

PVC, gold foil, aluminium, PE, nickel, titanium....Neumann's engineers were nothing but persistent in their goal of creating the stable, reliable Omni capsule !

Bringing capsule design forward for the TLM50 was no walk in the park either, when the demand for greater transient responsiveness pushed the need for a low mass/thickness membrane down to 2.5 micrometers, as Stephan Peus explains here: http://recordinghacks.com/pdf/neuman...0-dev-peus.pdf

One might wonder what technical hurdles could possibly have remained for Rode, given all the advances in precision fabrication, materials development and computer assisted assembly, in bringing the TFM50 to reality, now riding upon the shoulders of Neumann's giant strides in previous decades ?

It would appear that most of the 'heavy lifting' has already been done for them....

Last edited by studer58; 4 weeks ago at 05:51 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #136
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
...Readers here with an innate aversion to HF peaks or shelves in new mic response charts should remove themselves immediately from the TFM-50 waiting lists....you have to raise a quizzical smile, that these 2 very desirable mics (4038, M50) have such significant divergence from 'theoretically ideal flat response'...
there's a big difference whether you're using a mic with a significant hf raise high up in the air as part of a main mic system (tfm-50 and alike) or as a spot mic: as part of a main mic system, this may be desirable (not by everyone though), as a spot mic, not so much (by most engineers i know)...

i cannot understand why almost all newer sdc's have some kind of hf bump; it would have made a bit more sense (besides causing some issues) in the days of analog tape (when the c451 was a more rare exception) - but these days?!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #137
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Neither the TLM50 nor M150 Tube find much affection in this forum....is it price, performance....or the lack of TF's name ? I gather he doesn't have much time for these 'modern incarnations' of the M50, will the Rode equivalent bust that ?
I work with M150, I use these mics all the time on CD productions everytime the room is good enough... I love the M150, It is a wonderfull main mic to work with.
Only those who can't afford or doesn't know how to use it will say that it is not a wonderfull microphone.

Fred.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #138
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern View Post
I work with M150, I use these mics all the time on CD productions everytime the room is good enough... I love the M150, It is a wonderfull main mic to work with.
Only those who can't afford or doesn't know how to use it will say that it is not a wonderfull microphone.

Fred.
Thank you for your comments Fred, it's rarely mentioned in this forum. Do you find it works best at a distance/height, does the published HF lift become obvious if used at closer distance ? Apparently with the original M50 mic, tube noise could be a factor, is that defeated in the M150 ?

I assume you're hiring a pair of these for CD productions, rather than owning them....are they reliable in your experience, they can work for long periods, don't run hot etc ?

Here's a Ty Ford review I found, one of the few of the M150, used in Decca Tree configuration : https://www.mixonline.com/technology...uration-369512

Last edited by studer58; 4 weeks ago at 01:35 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #139
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
Dear Studer58,

I own 3 M150, a matched trio. I use the pair for everthing from solo until chamber orchestra. When I go symphonic I use the trio and my assistant owns a pair that we use as flanks, so 5 on stage at the end.

I can't speak about the M50, I never worked with it, but I never noticed with the M150 any problem with tube noise or with everything else and I work with these jewels since january 2016.
On every "normal" production they are "on" for around 5 days (and still on during the night), no problem.
In fact I never asked myself if I could have a problem because there is no reason.
I'm careful as with my other microphones, no more.

Regarding the HF lift I also can't write about it as I use the M150 as main, never as spot. I have other options to spot.

I started with KM183, made my first Decca with KM183 + SBK130, then I switched to MK2H, MK2S, I tried also some DPA and when I worked the first time with M150 it was like if they were no longer "window", no more some little color, no more audio element between the sound source and my ears.

Salutations de Bern,

Fred.

Edit:
By the way I don't want to start a war Neumann vs the rest of the world. I made this choice because it matches my taste.
And this is the TF5 thread, even not the TFM50 one.

Last edited by fred2bern; 4 weeks ago at 02:33 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #140
Lives for gear
Thank you Fred, you certainly have a qualified basis for comparisons, when you list the alternative mics you have used in the Tree, against the M150's. Wow....5 across the front of an orchestra !

This is echoed by another review I located: https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/arch...ube-microphone

David Spearritt has also reported on them favourably for a Goldberg Variations CD he recorded several years ago (post #19 and beyond) : Neumann M150 vs Wunder M50?

I guess this reinforces that the new Rode TFM50 is not a solitary recreation of the original M50....it stands among others which already pay tribute to it (including the FLEA 50 also....)

Fred, it would great to hear some samples of your M150 recordings, if you are allowed to post them (although these would best go onto another dedicated thread, as I fear the original TF5 focus has become lost and diffused.....which happens a lot on this forum )
Old 4 weeks ago
  #141
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johnsound's Avatar
Just a small point on that posted price: it includes UK VAT at 20%: most professional users are registered for VAT, so will claim that back, which knocks a fair chunk off the actual selling price.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #142
Fred, I’m trying to send you an email on your website form but it doesn’t seem to be going through. Would PM you here but I don’t see an option to do that, sorry. Let me know if there’s a way I can get in touch, thanks. Want to ask a question in reply but I don’t want to derail the thread.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #143
If anyone has purchased that new Rode pencil mic, how about a pic of the innards? A picture is worth a thousand words...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
If anyone has purchased that new Rode pencil mic, how about a pic of the innards? A picture is worth a thousand words...
Jim, does the old NT5 lend itself to any useful parts upgrades...I seem to recall you saying its circuit was based on a Schoeps SD schematic ? My memory of the Joly mod was that it was a capsule replacement only ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #145
I've never seen the innards of that mic here either. If all SOIC it will be a major PITA to rework.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #146
Quote:
Gearslutz is so removed from big league recording. Read orchestral recording by big media companies and movie studios and companies making on-line live orchestra broadcasts. MEDIA is king these days. These companies buy mics like these by the dozen. Rode will sell hundreds of those mics.
This generalization is a bit out dated. Lets not put Hollywood on an undeserved pedestal and call it "real" orchestral recording. Their techniques serve a difference purpose and their sound is artificially manufactured to serve the picture. The music part of movies popular media is also tiny compared to the overall budget, and these services are usually hired out, with the bulk of the cost going to the musicians. In television the composer gets a lump payment and is responsible for funding the musicians and the recording. No one will buy "dozens" of $13,000 Rode mics when they already have Neumann M50's in their locker, unless, of course, the Rode mics end up being far superior, and the perception of the budget mic company changes.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #147
Lives for gear
The new TFM-50 Rode will have to elbow it's way into the queue which is already populated by the Neumann family's M50, TLM50, M150 and Flea50, so there's some proving ahead of it to come, which will no doubt be heavily assisted by TF's standing and reputation, and Rode's marketing machinery.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #148
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
This generalization is a bit out dated. Lets not put Hollywood on an undeserved pedestal and call it "real" orchestral recording. Their techniques serve a difference purpose and their sound is artificially manufactured to serve the picture. The music part of movies popular media is also tiny compared to the overall budget, and these services are usually hired out, with the bulk of the cost going to the musicians. In television the composer gets a lump payment and is responsible for funding the musicians and the recording. No one will buy "dozens" of $13,000 Rode mics when they already have Neumann M50's in their locker, unless, of course, the Rode mics end up being far superior, and the perception of the budget mic company changes.
Hey, baby--I never said what you wrote and said I said. I believe that that is proper grammar.

This is what I wrote:
"Gearslutz is so removed from big league recording. Read orchestral recording by big media companies and movie studios and companies making on-line live orchestra broadcasts. MEDIA is king these days. These companies buy mics like these by the dozen. Rode will sell hundreds of those mics."


I said orchestral recording by big media companies (record companies) and movie scoring, and big MEDIA companies. So three separate entities.

I did not ever emphasize or mention that scoring stages were where "real" orchestra recording happens. Sorry, you are trying to change my statements.

The fact is that many M50 mics in studios don't work these days.

But since no one here on GS will be buying the new TF50 mics, why do you even debate? Is it because you are an M50 expert?

Last edited by Plush; 4 weeks ago at 03:05 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #149
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Time to brush up your German language skills! Here's a test (with sound samples) of the TF-5 mics: https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzel...tf-5-test.html
Old 2 weeks ago
  #150
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Time to brush up your German language skills! Here's a test (with sound samples) of the TF-5 mics: https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzel...tf-5-test.html
Quite convincing (if I can trust the tests). Maybe a little to pronounced on top, but very nice full bodied and sweet sound, compared to KM184. I'm interested

::
Mads
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