The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Sennheiser MKH 416 and Sony PCM-D100 Condenser Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Sennheiser MKH 416 and Sony PCM-D100

Hi, I love to shot movies and now I want to upgrade my equiptment.

I have a quite good Sony Camcoder ( HXR-NX30E ) but the XLR-Adapter has some issues.

If i put the gain below 5 and also if I turned from 0 db to -10 or -20 it introduces some hiss and a lot of noise.

Now I bought the Sony PCM-D100 and I am really quiet impressive of it´s quality. (Maybe I should return it and get a different recorder smaller? Like the M10 or the new A10? How does the M10 compare to the PCM-D100?)

I put it with a shock mount on my camcoder and it has better quality than my adapter with the boom mic ECM-XM1.

I want to be really flexible and also no depent on a boom operator and want to work shot and gun style, but also to shot some short films where I will have friends for booming.

My question is:

Do I need an additional microphone like the Sennheiser 416 (270€) with a Sound Device Mix-Pre D (350€) ?

I would like to put the Sennheiser on mic Camcoder with a shockmount and put the Sound Device with my Sony PCM D-100 in my bag, is it a good portable system?

Or should I buy a new XLR-Adapter(Sony XLRK1M) for my Sony? Maybe the Sony PCM D-100 alone is good, but sometimes it has handling noises and how does the quality of this mic perform to comparison to a Sennheiser MKH 416?

What do you think guys, would be the best equiptment for me and the future like producing a Netflix series?

A better camera like the GH5 with 4K Video would cost me with lenses at least 1500-2000€, will be a upgrade in the future, but now I want the best quality sound I can get.

Best wishes
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
Beachtek makes some relatively good units for your needs such as the Dxa-micro, which mounts under your cam and allows you to connect an xlr type phantom power mic directly to your camera (which can do a perfectly fine job of audio recording if given a good source signal). This would eliminate the need for an external recorder and help keep your kit light and more convenient. The mixpre is a great unit, but with that setup, you are dealing with more devices than you need, as well as having to manually sync audio to video in post. The senn 416 is quite old tech at this point, so if you can consider something like an mkh50 or Schoeps cmc641 you would be truly competitive in achieving pro-quality audio - both are effective as on-cam mics if you are in proximity to your source, and both are perfect industry-standard boom-mounted and table stand solutions. A used gh4 can be had for around $500 these days, so switching to 4k is really a no-brainer.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Or should I maybe buy a Sony XLRK1M ? The MKH50 looks nice (but can not really find used ones for good price) and it is much shorter than the MKH 416, so also better on top of the camera. 25cm would be seen in the picture I think?
For short films I would have a boom operator.
What do you think of the PCM D-100 is the quality of the microphone quite good like of the Sennheiser 416 or better? Should I maybe return it and buy a smaller recorder like the M10 or the new A10? I bought the PCM D-100 for ambience recording, interviews and also for record music and sound effects.
The Beachtek devices look really nice is there much difference in comparesen to the Sound Devices like noise floor, or is it possible to clean the audio with plugins like the Izotope RX to get the same results?
The old technolgy of the MKH 416 is not an issue for me, and the NTG-3 is almost the same but the size also. I want pro audio quality for my films, intended to show it to film festivals.
The GH4 looks also really nice but it has 8 bit and the GH5 has 10 bit, what makes a difference in color grading.
But maybe not so much. So much technical stuff, for me it is much more important to focus on the idea and I think at the end it does not make so much difference if I would have better gear if the idea is good. I love movies by Tarkowski, Godard, Griffith, Eisenstein, Pudovkin and other masters. I want to shot film as they did and improve on it!
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
The d100 is a nice unit but does not offer xlr inputs for pro mics. It does work well for ambient sound and live music (with proper placement), but not adequate for set work or situations where boom mic or tight directional mic (hyper or super cardioid) is needed. If you are comfortable going with external audio, consider a sound Devices mixpre 3 or 6 which offers xlr inputs with phantom power, excellent preamps and pro build quality. It is also mountable below your cam. The 416 is still a quite useable mic and very affordable these days, though a bit large for direct cam mounting. The noise floor of the beachtek units is fine, and yes you can correct any number of audio flaws with rx and similar plugs during post. I have used rode mics, but I would stick to industry standard kit like Schoeps or Sennheiser. I used a gh4 for two years and it is an awesome piece of gear - the video quality is near perfect and I would not worry about 8 bit v 10 bit unless you are shooting a $100M cinema project. Going from 1080 to 4k will make WAY more difference in your video quality than worrying about bit depth between the gh4 and gh5.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Here for the gear
 

I would buy a Rycote InVision and mount it on the camera. I have an offer for a Sound Device Mix-Pre D for 355€ (what is a really good price?! The Mix-Pre 3/6 would cost more than the Mix-Pre D + Sennheiser, but would be also a recorder at the same time and more leightweight as Sony PCM-D100+Mix-Pre D, weight should not be an issuse because it would be on my shoulder bag and 1Kg is not much vs 500g (Mix-Pre3).
My idea is to get the Sennheiser 416, Rycote InVision and a Sound Device Mix-Pre D, connect the Mix-Pre D to my Sony PCM D-100 put in in my shoulder bag and connect it with the Sennheiser on top of the camera, maybe for a upgrade a wireless System to have no cable issues.
It is nice to be lightweight and not carry so much stuff with my. Some of my friends have a lot of gear light, tripod .. and they carry there ass of.
I am thinking also to get a monopod (Sirui P-204S which is the best monopod?) for faster and more portable setup (or better a nice tripod?)
I think I should first invest in good sound, because you have a bad to good image quality but with bad sound nobody wants to watch the film. With the Sony PCM-D100 I am good to go and for interior dialog capture it sounds good for me. The ECM-XM1 from Sony is really short and I think almost as good as the NTG2.
I bought a leight plastic shoulder rig, which I really like and also the fluid movements I can get out of it (My Sony Camcoder has a mechanical stabilization and it looks really nice)

What do you think should be best to invest first? Camera(4k) or Monopod/Tripod(My Tripod is almost broke) Or the Sennheiser 416 with the Sound Devices Mix-Pre D ? (I have found a good offer 625€ for both) I have a low-budget and make the best out of my gear and invest in a future proof equipment and also make first some money out of it (little projects for people/companies)
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
The GH4 looks also really nice but it has 8 bit and the GH5 has 10 bit, what makes a difference in color grading.
But maybe not so much.
If you really want to make your movies look like cinema, the main consideration isn't necessarily 4K vs. HD or 8 bit vs. 10 bit (although these are important too), but dynamic range. If you look at most video shot with consumer camcorders or DLSRs/mirrorless cameras, you often see blown highlights and crushed blacks with no detail. In contrast cinema cameras have a wide dynamic range (up to 14 stops currently) and that's one of several factors at play in the so-called cinematic look.

You might want to read this detailed overview to get some ideas of some things you should consider if you're trying to get cinema-style quality: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...s-need-to-know

I'd take a close look at the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (with 13 stops of dynamic range); you can see example footage from that camera at https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...camera/gallery. I personally prefer the look from the older Pocket (no longer sold), which had a Fairchild sensor rather than the Sony sensor used in the new Pocket, but a lot of people are doing amazing work with the Pocket 4K.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
I am thinking also to get a monopod (Sirui P-204S which is the best monopod?) for faster and more portable setup (or better a nice tripod?)
Ultimately it's good to have both a monopod and a tripod. The monopod is good for run-and-gun shooting where you need mobility but also stability, plus it enables you to get some interesting dolly-like moves. It can also function like a steadicam if you hold it out in front of you while walking; much more stable image than handheld. The Sirui looks good; I have the Manfrotto MVMXPro500 which is also great. Be sure to get a video head for it, not a camera ball head. Note that most monopods don't actually fold up as compactly as travel tripods.

A tripod is useful too, though, and gives your image more stability. When you're fiddling with camera settings and sound recorders it's helpful to know that the camera won't fall over if you walk away from it for a moment, which can be a risk in windy conditions or on unstable terrain with monopods even with those that have feet like the Sirui or the Manfrotto. Same consideration goes for the head: be sure to get a video head for smooth panning, not a ball head.

When you're shooting video, having a level indicator on your tripod or monopod is important if you're going to pan at all, otherwise your pans won't be level and fixing them in post is a pain (you have to zoom in a bit and your image will be cropped). If you want a light portable tripod with a good leveling system, the Manfrotto BeFree video tripod is a good bet. The more expensive video/cinema tripods have a ball-and-socket system for leveling that's fantastic, but they're heavier and less portable; the Manfrotto is the best compromise I've found in a light portable tripod. I have a Sirui cinema tripod that cost more than my camera did, but that's the one I take with me when I'm not flying on a plane.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Camera

I am right now thinking to get a better camera and for the sound I would record it in a sound studio and make ADR or synchronasation.
I am thinking to get the "Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera" (old and smaller version) or the "Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 2.5K" or perhaps the GH4. Right know I have an offer for the pocket with a metabones speedbooster for 600€, what do you think guys would be the best of this three cameras?
Old 5 days ago
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
I am thinking to get the "Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera" (old and smaller version) or the "Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 2.5K" or perhaps the GH4. Right know I have an offer for the pocket with a metabones speedbooster for 600€, what do you think guys would be the best of this three cameras?
There are a few problems to consider with the original Pocket Cinema Camera:

1. Media: SanDisk changed its SD card architecture in the past year, and you're going to have a hard time finding new SD cards that work in that camera. It requires very high data-writing speeds (Blackmagic Design recommends 95mb/s UHS-I disks); the UHS-I disks currently on the market will not work. SanDisk now recommends their ultra-fast 300 mb/s UHS-II SD cards for the original Pocket, which some users are reporting with success with, but those cards are really expensive. A 128 GB card will set you back at least $200 (I'm in Canada and they're going for $300 here). You'd want at least 64 GB capacity, which will give you about 20-30 minutes if you shoot Raw and 30-45 minutes if you're shooting ProRes (longer if you're shooting more compressed ProRes).

2. Frame drops: This was supposedly fixed in a firmware upgrade, but I'm still getting frame drops on my original Pocket when shooting long sequences (more than 5-10 minutes).

3. HDMI connector: The original Pocket has a structurally weak HDMI connector; if it breaks off, your entire camera goes with it as the HDMI connector is attached to the motherboard. It's not replaceable. You normally want to use the Pocket with an external monitor unless you're shooting exclusively indoors, as the screen on the Pocket is almost impossible to see outdoors in sunny conditions. There are other solutions but a monitor is the most practical. But the HDMI issue makes this a risky solution.

4. Battery life: it's short. Really short. As in 15-20 minutes, if you're using lenses with stabilization (the camera has no in-body stabilization but supports some stabilized lenses). You'll want an external battery solution, which adds bulk and weight.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Will a "SanDisk Extreme 256GB SDXC 150MB/s Class 10, U3, V30" work ?
What kind of frame drops do you mean? Are they noticeable, can they be fixed in post?
I have an external monitor already, then only need a good cable that is not breaking the port.
That is not the biggest problem, I will be using the camera only for short/feature Films and not documentations for that I have my camcoder.
Also would buy then enough batteries and I would not film every crap for lesser storage and editing.

The other option would be "Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 2.5K" that has the option to mount the SSD and has bigger screen for only 450-500€ for the body

I have read that the new pocket with 4k has not the nice 16mm look of the pocket and does not look really cinematic, what would be for me more important that super crisp picture.
And also the weight for the small pocket 370g or the 2.5K has over 1000g. I like to be portable and not carry to much stuff.
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
Will a "SanDisk Extreme 256GB SDXC 150MB/s" work ?
What kind of frame drops do you mean? Are they noticeable, can they be fixed in post?
I have an external monitor already, then only need a good cable that is not breaking the port.
The older model (pre 2018) of that SD card will work but not the new ones. You're going to have a hard time finding SD cards now, everyone has bought up the older ones and the new ones won't work. The USH-II cards reportedly work, just a lot more expensive.

You can't fix dropped frames in post. They are very noticeable -- you get a quick jumble of jumps in the image. If you are shooting shorter takes, less than 10 minutes each, the risk seems to be low. I've never experienced them myself except in longer takes lasting 10 minutes or more.

The issue with the HDMI connector is not the quality of the cable -- the problem is that you can accidentally bump the cable connector while filming and break the connector. Some of the cages on the market, eg from Wooden Camera or from SmallRig, have HDMI cable connector clamps to help prevent this. Not a perfect solution but it has worked for me so far.

Of the cameras you're considering, the GH4 would be the most practical solution but wouldn't have the same image quality as the Blackmagic ones. I don't have any experience with the 2.5k Cinema camera but have seen some impressive work done with it.
Old 5 days ago
  #12
Gear Head
 
xojjt222's Avatar
I have a Sony PCM recorder and use a MKH 416 in my VO studio. The Sony picks up well, but doesn't do as good of a job at rejecting off-axis signals. You can't go wrong with the 416. Use them in conjunction so you can decide in post if you want to feature more of the environment in the audio.

I also like the GH series. I was going to grab a GH4, but I went G7 with the intent to get a GH5 in the future.
Old 5 days ago
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
The older model (pre 2018) of that SD card will work but not the new ones. You're going to have a hard time finding SD cards now, everyone has bought up the older ones and the new ones won't work. The USH-II cards reportedly work, just a lot more expensive.

You can't fix dropped frames in post. They are very noticeable -- you get a quick jumble of jumps in the image. If you are shooting shorter takes, less than 10 minutes each, the risk seems to be low. I've never experienced them myself except in longer takes lasting 10 minutes or more.

The issue with the HDMI connector is not the quality of the cable -- the problem is that you can accidentally bump the cable connector while filming and break the connector. Some of the cages on the market, eg from Wooden Camera or from SmallRig, have HDMI cable connector clamps to help prevent this. Not a perfect solution but it has worked for me so far.

Of the cameras you're considering, the GH4 would be the most practical solution but wouldn't have the same image quality as the Blackmagic ones. I don't have any experience with the 2.5k Cinema camera but have seen some impressive work done with it.
Are they USH-I working? I have read that they will be no frame drops, it depends on the sd card? Raw recording give the most of the camera, are they other formats also really good? I usally give really good care with my equiptment and would not break the port.
The GH4 has lesser quality and not the same cinematic looks as the blackmagics do? Is a speedbooster really important or should be a good lense with a normal adapter still be fine?
Old 5 days ago
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
Are they USH-I working? I have read that they will be no frame drops, it depends on the sd card? Raw recording give the most of the camera, are they other formats also really good? I usally give really good care with my equiptment and would not break the port.
The GH4 has lesser quality and not the same cinematic looks as the blackmagics do? Is a speedbooster really important or should be a good lense with a normal adapter still be fine?
The GH4 is excellent, it just doesn't have the same dynamic range or color science of the Blackmagic cameras. If you're really after a "cinematic" look (which depends on lighting as much as the camera), the Blackmagic cameras are designed specifically for that.

The UHS-I cards available on the market today do not work in the original Pocket. Only the older versions (pre 2018) work. My cards are all pre 2018 and were the Blackmagic Design recommended cards, but they still have frame drops on longer recordings. It's not just the card that's the factor; the camera itself seems to have this problem.

Raw gives you the most flexibility in post (for color grading) and highest image quality but has a more complex workflow. Most people use ProRes HQ for commercial work, which is very flexible in post and still has great image quality.

The speedbooster is important only if you're planning to use non-native lenses (i.e., lenses that don't have a micro four-thirds mount). If you already have some Canon or Nikon lenses then the speedbooster is a good thing to have since you won't have to buy new lenses specifically for the camera.
Old 5 days ago
  #15
Gear Head
 
xojjt222's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
The GH4 has lesser quality and not the same cinematic looks as the blackmagics do? Is a speedbooster really important or should be a good lense with a normal adapter still be fine?
Speed booster is necessary IMO to function in lower light settings. The prime 25mm lens doesn’t need it, but most other lenses don’t have great aperture ratings.
Old 5 days ago
  #16
Here for the gear
 

I want really cinematic look like the old masters and directors like Kubrick, Wenders, Tarantino, also cause of learning to master the medium film. I want to apply for my masters for a film university and be prepared well.
So then I need at least a USH-II card for recording in RAW?
What are the best lenses for the Blackmagic with an "Metabones Speedbooster Canon EF Lens to BMPCC T Speed booster 0.58x" available, are there also good analog lenses I want my equiptment as light as possible. I have a shoulder-rig and a tripod. Is it possible to auto-focus with electric lenses and does it work good? I do not see any other camera "Blackmagic Pocket Camera" that would my films as good as a RED or ARRI for a low-budget.
Old 5 days ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 

The "cinematic look" depends as much or more on lighting as it does on the camera, format, and lens. So you'll need to spend a lot of time learning about lighting in addition to everything else.

That said, here are some answers to your specific questions:

1. Unless you can find any of the older SD cards recommended by Blackmagic Design, then you'll need the UHS-II 350mb/s extreme pro SanDisk SD cards to record anything (not just RAW) on the original Pocket. Anything else will get you a "no card" message on the camera.

2. If you are looking for "as light as possible" you can consider getting native micro-four-thirds lenses that fit directly on the camera without a speed booster or other adapter. There are some reasonably fast lenses that work fine with the Pocket; check out the SLR Magic cinema lenses (e.g., the 10mm), for example. Veydra lenses are great, but currently production is on hold while the company tries to rebuild itself. The Olympus Pro line of lenses are excellent, same for some of the Panasonics -- most of those are designed for stills cameras but will work very well on the Pocket. If I had to do it over again, I'd get several of the Olympus Pro primes.

Your main consideration will be to choose between stills-camera lenses or cinema-style lenses that are completely manual. I like manual lenses where you have to control iris and focus entirely by hand, nothing automatic. The Pocket camera has no automatic settings anyway; you have to set white balance, shutter angle, etc. by hand, and the manual lenses give you more fine-grained control to get the exact exposure and focus you want. The Pocket works with some auto-focus lenses where you can press a button on the camera to set iris and another button on the camera to autofocus, but you'll usually need to adjust by hand anyway. You should read up on the advantages of cinema-style lenses to understand the other differentiating factors, especially when it comes to focus breathing. You will need neutral-density filters (or one variable ND filter, which is a compromise but cheaper and more practical than having multiple filters) so you can get shallow depth of field in bright sunlight and avoid the softness that the Pocket develops at higher f-stops due to diffraction.
Old 5 days ago
  #18
Here for the gear
 

For the SD problem I found a really good solution to buy a Nexto that will transfer my files to a HDD or SSD. This solution I like anyway, because file transfer to the computer also makes difficulties to keep my files in order audio & video and I will get out this problem right on the field with a good backup.
This lenses sound really good I will make a research on it. I have the possibility to get really good canon lenses from my university that are for the Mark 5d iii and can save money at the beginning to get some good lenses.
There is also a SMALLRIG HDMI PORT solution for 25€.

Right now I can spend 800€ and thinking to get the BMPCC over a Sennheiser 416 + Sound Devices, because I have already a PCM D-100 which I can also use for voiceover, which is quite similar as the 416 quality? In two months I can spend another 1000€. What do you guys think would be the best investment?
Old 5 days ago
  #19
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalusch View Post
For the SD problem I found a really good solution to buy a Nexto that will transfer my files to a HDD or SSD. This solution I like anyway, because file transfer to the computer also makes difficulties to keep my files in order audio & video and I will get out this problem right on the field with a good backup.
That doesn't actually solve the SD problem. The Nexto is just a fast way to copy files from your SD card so you can reuse the card in the field. But if you can't record to the SD card in the first place (which is the problem you're facing with the Pocket camera), the Nexto won't help you.

The only other solution would be to buy a monitor/recorder that records to SSD or CFast cards; those are expensive but then you would be able to record raw or Prores directly into the monitor instead of into an SD card in the camera.
Old 5 days ago
  #20
Here for the gear
 

I only need 2-3 cards and can switch to record and transfer. Like the Atomos Ninja 2 (which I could get for 200-300€) ? But does it lose 2 bits because the recorder records in 422 10 bit.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Samc / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
36
mikeshep / So Much Gear, So Little Time
16
jdorchen / Newbie Audio Engineering + Production Question Zone
0
EarlG / So Much Gear, So Little Time
2
onthejazz / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
9

Forum Jump
Forum Jump