The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
NAB 2019: New Zoom F6 Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 

NAB 2019: New Zoom F6

Just detected this on YT:



On edit:

No more gain setting, it is like RAW for audio.

Quote:
Zoom just announced their new F6 field recorder for location sound audio recording. Rather than just tweak the form factor, which they did, they also moved to dual analogue to digital converters which record to 32 bit. So the way you record changes pretty dramatically. When recording to 32 bit, you don't set the gain trim (there is none), you simply adjust the fader for each input channel. If you missed the level, no problem, in post you can cleanly normalize to the levels you need with no degradation in audio quality. They've also switched up a few other things: The screen is a slightly smaller version of the high resolution screen from the F8n, the back of the recorder is a Sony NP-F (L series) battery sled, and you can now power the F6 via its USB-C input. The same quality timecode generator from the F8n is on board, this time with a 3.5mm TRS input/output jack. The F6 has a single SD card slot for recording media and still includes the advanced hybrid limiter when you record in 24 bit. Auto mix is included and the with an adapter, you can use the Zoom Control app for iOS. You can also use the Zoom F-Control control surface. We'll have a full review after the F6 starts shipping, hopefully in June 2019. Pricing still to be announced.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
Several DAWs allow 32 bit FP recording, but it's usually dismissed with "why would you want more than 24....that's already more than sufficient for all conceivable real world dynamic ranges recordable" ? However this is a new implementation with 2 AD's (sliding/variable ?) so different to anything we have thus far ?
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Several DAWs allow 32 bit FP recording, but it's usually dismissed with "why would you want more than 24....that's already more than sufficient for all conceivable real world dynamic ranges recordable" ? However this is a new implementation with 2 AD's (sliding/variable ?) so different to anything we have thus far ?
I believe this is the same AD approach as used by Sonosax and Zaxcom ; it would seem that this technology has now come down to the Zoom price point...

EDIT: Not sure if it is possible to record 32 bit wav files with the SX-R4+? (It was discussed obtusely in this thread)

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 1 week ago at 01:52 PM.. Reason: Question added
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Addict
 

So here's a naive question: A couple of years ago I bought a QSC Touchmix digital mixer for live sound; it works as a recorder too (the Touchmix 8 is about the size of a large laptop) and records multitrack 32-bit floating point WAV files at either 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz; you can choose to record pre-fader/FX or post-fader/FX and you can also just record the stereo mix if you don't want the ISO files.

What I don't understand is whether the fact that the Touchmix records 32-bit floating point WAV files automatically gives me that same degree of dynamic range touted in the new Zoom F6 (i.e., if I'm using it only for recording, not for live sound, can I keep the analog gain low to allow plenty of headroom and not worry about trying to get to a target level like -18dBFs), or whether there's something special going on with the A-D converter(s) used in the Zoom F6 that makes it possible on that unit but not on my Touchmix?

I hadn't seriously considered the Touchmix for recording since it's more of a prosumer machine designed primarily for live sound, but it might be worth a second look.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
...What I don't understand is whether the fact that the Touchmix records 32-bit floating point WAV files automatically gives me that same degree of dynamic range touted in the new Zoom F6 (i.e., if I'm using it only for recording, not for live sound, can I keep the analog gain low to allow plenty of headroom and not worry about trying to get to a target level like -18dBFs), or whether there's something special going on with the A-D converter(s) used in the Zoom F6 that makes it possible on that unit but not on my Touchmix?...
My understanding is that each input on the Zoom F6 uses two preamps feeding two ADs, one 'low gain' preamp writing to bits 1-16 and one 'high gain' preamp writing to bits 17-32. In this way an extremely high dynamic range (of perhaps 135 dB?) is captured in the 32 bit wav (I credit Hugh Robjohns with explaining this - I hope I have understood his explanation). In short, I don't think your Touchmix has this sort of input design.

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 1 week ago at 03:25 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
My understanding is that each input on the Zoom F6 uses two preamps feeding two ADs, one 'low gain' preamp writing to bits 1-16 and one 'high gain' preamp writing to bits 17-32. In this way an extremely high dynamic range (of perhaps 135 dB?) is captured in the 32 bit wav (I credit Hugh Robjohns with explaining this - I hope I have understood his explanation). In short, I don't think your Touchmix has this sort of input design.
Hugh's comments - in the SOS forum - aren't based, as he says himself, on any knowledge of the F6. The interviews at NAB only refer to dual ADCs, not dual pre-amps (indeed, the refs in the interviews to the F6 having the same preamps as the F4 and F8/F8n appear to rather counter that). For another example of dual ADCs (sans dual preamps) in a modestly-priced recorder, there is the Tascam DR100 Mk3, although the F6, of course, promises to be rather better.

But who knows?! The topology of more recent recorders is getting more complex and is not always helped by the absence of published sufficiently detailed block diagrams.

Incidentally the Gotham Sound interview at NAB is the best I have seen so far YouTube, but it will be interesting to see/hear real reviews of the F6 in due course.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 

I still don't get it, please explain!
The preamps of the Zoom and the gain settings happen before AD, correct?
If I set the gain too low, I have an unwanted ratio between noise and usefull signal (Nutzsignal). If I later normalize the recording or whatever I do with the result, the ratio between noise and wanted signal remains the same.
What is it that I don't understand?
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Addict
 

The noise floor is 135db down so where you set your signal in the 32bit ‘pail’ you can always lift it up in your mix because there is virtually no noise.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton View Post
The noise floor is 135db down so where you set your signal in the 32bit ‘pail’ you can always lift it up in your mix because there is virtually no noise.
Thank you for your reply. Do you talk of the noise floor of the analog part? If so, where is the difference with the 32 bit. If the low noise floor is an attribute of the analog part - the preamps - I could make a recording with a 24 or 16 bit A/D and a gain setting "too low" and still the noise/wanted signal ratio would be relative good.
But how does the 32 bit A/D makes something irrelevant, I do "wrong" in the analog area before the AD?
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 

I can’t get into the weeds and defend it. The quality of the new dual ‘stuff’ is characterized by not needing to care about how hot you get your signal. Any nominal signal range, recorded, is no different from the signal recorded at a higher level.

Some here have taken exception to my summarizing so I am trying to be careful

The Sonoax has pre AD, a 20db gain switch only, the fader knobs only adjust the level of the signal after the digitizing. There’s no noise in the pres. Some of the users in video claim the only reason they adjust up the ‘knobs’ is so their post people see a waveform level they are accustomed to.
The Sonosax records a 24bit wave.
Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
JamesClark1991 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
284
Immortal / PreSonus Studio One
0
muziksculp / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
30
Dr.Noize / Product Alerts older than 2 months
0
ditabeardmemo / So much gear, so little time
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump