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Jazz Sextet w/ 8 Channels Dynamic Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Jazz Sextet w/ 8 Channels

I just moved to LA and I'm helping a friend record a jazz sextet this Wednesday at an art gallery. I'm curious how some of you might approach the setup. The band runs through a PA, which just sounds ok, so I don't think I'll be using a stereo pair or room mics. I'm also limited to 8 channels until I can get some gear upgrades or repairs. The group is led by a trumpet, with alto and tenor sax, drums, bass (assuming upright), and a Kawai baby grand piano.

My main mics are a Josephson c700s, a pair of the c617set (but with BK4165 capsules until I get my mk221s repaired...), a pair of Schoeps CMC54s, Royer 121, Sennheiser 441, 421, Joly Mod 319, Joly mk12, m88, Blue Baby Bottle & Dragonfly, re20, pair of Fathead ribbons (with Cloudlifters), and the rest probably aren't worth mentioning.

One wrinkle is that I'd love to use my c700s, but it takes up 3 channels on its own, and since I'm using a field recorder, I won't be able to monitor the stereo image, either in analog or via ambisonic processing. I'm considering it on the drums, but have never used it like that before and I'm not sure if I'd place it as an overhead pointing down, or somewhere in front of the kit facing the drummer.

My plan so far is:

Trumpet: 121 w/ Cloudlifter Z
Tenor Sax: 441
Alto Sax: m88 (or Fathead)
Piano: CMC54 (single)
Bass: 319 mod
Drums : c700s

That's all 8 channels! I'm doing this just for fun, practice, working my way into the LA jazz community, etc. - they don't multi-track this series but have wanted to, so anything will be better than what they have now. Part of the goal is to experiment w/ the c700s though, so I would like to keep it in the mix.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Why not skip the 3rd channel or not use the C700, and then stereo mic drums and piano? Or add bass DI? Channels are precious, and drums aren’t worth 3 channels if you have that limited a channel count (imho).


Quote:
Originally Posted by over-man View Post
I just moved to LA and I'm helping a friend record a jazz sextet this Wednesday at an art gallery. I'm curious how some of you might approach the setup. The band runs through a PA, which just sounds ok, so I don't think I'll be using a stereo pair or room mics. I'm also limited to 8 channels until I can get some gear upgrades or repairs. The group is led by a trumpet, with alto and tenor sax, drums, bass (assuming upright), and a Kawai baby grand piano.

My main mics are a Josephson c700s, a pair of the c617set (but with BK4165 capsules until I get my mk221s repaired...), a pair of Schoeps CMC54s, Royer 121, Sennheiser 441, 421, Joly Mod 319, Joly mk12, m88, Blue Baby Bottle & Dragonfly, re20, pair of Fathead ribbons (with Cloudlifters), and the rest probably aren't worth mentioning.

One wrinkle is that I'd love to use my c700s, but it takes up 3 channels on its own, and since I'm using a field recorder, I won't be able to monitor the stereo image, either in analog or via ambisonic processing. I'm considering it on the drums, but have never used it like that before and I'm not sure if I'd place it as an overhead pointing down, or somewhere in front of the kit facing the drummer.

My plan so far is:

Trumpet: 121 w/ Cloudlifter Z
Tenor Sax: 441
Alto Sax: m88 (or Fathead)
Piano: CMC54 (single)
Bass: 319 mod
Drums : c700s

That's all 8 channels! I'm doing this just for fun, practice, working my way into the LA jazz community, etc. - they don't multi-track this series but have wanted to, so anything will be better than what they have now. Part of the goal is to experiment w/ the c700s though, so I would like to keep it in the mix.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
Why not skip the 3rd channel or not use the C700, and then stereo mic drums and piano? Or add bass DI? Channels are precious, and drums aren’t worth 3 channels if you have that limited a channel count (imho).
That's definitely something I'm considering. I could use the CMC54 pair on the piano and run the two c617s as AB overheads, which might add some more life and room tone in as well. Part of the "experiment" is also for me to learn how the c700s sounds on drums, and I don't think it can be run without all 3 capsules powered. I also would need all 3 to experiment with other types of decoding.

I think I can live with a mono piano on this one, especially since I have 3 horns and stereo drums to fill out the sides, but I can see this bothering people who like a big piano spread. Next week is a piano trio, so that will afford me way more options. I'll likely try the c700s on piano next week. I guess part of this is balancing the demands of an "optimal" recording vs. experimentation - a question of approach and balance I suppose.

I've never had an upright DI sound that I liked, and the 319 typically sounds great, but if the players are very close, I may have to do that.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
I just put a C700s a few feet out in front of a drum kit, and the sound was glorious!

BUT, there was nothing else being recorded at the time...

I plan on using it the same way but in a ensemble in about a week or so.

Good luck with your session.
Sounds very exciting.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Gear Addict
 

8-channel 788t on a sextet

The drums are schoeps ms and a bd mic. I tried to keep them on the right like they were on stage, the drums are really a bit peculiar

A guitar mic

The baby grand had one mic and the horns were two mk21’s

The bass was a large mxl gold on the amp. Most mics had a lot of bleed

Who Can I Turn To by PlantLady Rec Services | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post
I just put a C700s a few feet out in front of a drum kit, and the sound was glorious!

BUT, there was nothing else being recorded at the time...
Have you experimented with ambisonics processing on the c700s? The ability to create virtual mics, multiple stereo patterns, and mask out other areas along that horizontal 360 axis can be a great tool. I've just haven't been able to try this on drums yet. That should let me control the spill as much as I'd like in post, which is part of the reason I want to experiment with it in particular. It's such a gorgeous and flexible mic.

I'll have to ask about posting samples or links, but definitely will if I can!
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton View Post
The baby grand had one mic and the horns were two mk21’s
Thanks for posting this! The mono piano doesn't bother me on this recording. I'll probably add a touch of reverb to certain elements too, and the piano might be one of those.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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The gig went pretty well after the usual live recording hurdles of musicians stuck in LA traffic and a *very* modest live sound system that could barely eek out enough sound in the monitors for the horns to hear themselves. There ended up being a small buzz on the 121 & the Bass DI that we couldn't get rid of, even with ground lift switches on the DI box and the mic splitter. There was no power conditioner on any of the gallery's gear, and there are many dimmers in the place, so I suspect that was the issue. We ditched the 121 for an SM7, which didn't have the hum. In hindsight, I was able to use Adobe Audition w/ a noise print of the buzz on the Bass DI for a pretty clean removal, so next time I may fight through the buzz on the 121 and use it instead, then just de-noise in post. No one could hear the buzz in the mains, and the sm7 is a little too compressed / small sounding on trumpet for my taste. Drums and bass were far too close for a mic, so we went DI straight from his pickups. The c700s sounds glorious on drums, along with the 441 on the Tenor Sax. The m88 worked pretty well on the alto, but I would have liked something with a bit more clarity - the m88 is a little "cloudy", but we didn't have time to swap around since we lost several hours of sound check and setup to traffic. The Schoeps CMC54 also sounds pretty good on the piano - stereo would have been nice, but this will work. I'll post samples if the musicians approve.

I think I'll be back there again next week, this time for a Piano Trio. If anyone is interested, I can keep this thread going or start another for the series. I'll likely be doing a fair number of these over the coming months, once a week.
Old 6 days ago
  #9
Sounds interesting ( keep it up ) .

Curious to hear the c700s with all three tracks on drums.
Perhaps if you get a Quartet you might have enough spare tracks to print all three.
Good to hear how your sessions are progressing.
Old 6 days ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Barnett View Post
Sounds interesting ( keep it up ) .

Curious to hear the c700s with all three tracks on drums.
Perhaps if you get a Quartet you might have enough spare tracks to print all three.
Good to hear how your sessions are progressing.
Thanks! Actually I did record all 3 tracks from the c700s (everybody else got 1 channel). It's really interesting so far comparing analog MS decoding to ambisonic decoding on the c700s, hoping I can post some samples soon. Either way, the c700s has such a smooth tone, and the stereo spread sounds natural even when I'm pushing it out pretty wide.

I placed it in front of the kit, between the two main cymbals, trying to aim with a fairly straight line between kick and snare:
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Jazz Sextet w/ 8 Channels-c700s_drums_ej_strickland.jpg  
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