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Using super cardioid mics when you need some “distance”... Condenser Microphones
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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jnorman's Avatar
Using super cardioid mics when you need some “distance”...

There are several instruments which do not like to be mic’ed closely, and benefit from using the mic at a greater distance such as 6-10 feet out, to allow the sound of the instrument to “jell” or bloom or just to reduce key clacking or breath noises.

It is hard in a studio setting to use a cardioid mic further than about 4 feet before getting too much bleed from other instruments, piano in particular. In these situations, do you regularly use a hyper or super cardioid mic so you can get 6 or more feet away from an instrument? If not, why not?

I am considering an Mkh 50 or cmc641 for such uses - do you have an opinion on which of those might be a better choice for flute, oboe, and other winds?

Thanks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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No experience in studio or with CMC641 but lots of experience with MKH8050 with a wide variety of woodwinds and other acoustic instruments.
Very smooth on and off axis.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

schoeps mk41 is like a laser beam. I've never heard a supercardioid like it. It is ultra focused. placement is more critical with this mic than most supercardioids. and it sounds really really really excellent. If I want a little less reflected vs direct sound on the mkh80 or tlm107 I just tighten up the pattern and *often* can leave the placement alone, but if I really need to pull the mic back I grab the schoeps.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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i've been using the mk41 for years on various occasions, including situations where i started out with a shotgun (for its function: off axis attenuation) but mostly opted for the hypercardiod mic (for its sound) in the end - cannot comment on the sennheiser though but prefer the mk41 over any multipattern mic in a hypercardioid setting...


p.s. the use of hypercardioids for me is not so much about distance but more about directivity and attenuation.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 2 weeks ago at 05:59 PM.. Reason: p.s. added
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
The MK41 might be the most impressive Schoeps capsule I’ve used. It’s not as versatile as the MK5 or MK21 as a main pair, but it’s simply beautiful as a spot mic. I’ve used it for vocals, woodwind pairs in orchestra, violin, lute, cello, etc. Give it a little more distance than a cardioid and then sit back and enjoy.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Plush's Avatar
The original design for the ORTF microphone technique specified that Schoeps hyper-cardioid (so-called super cardioid) capsules be used.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
The original design for the ORTF microphone technique specified that Schoeps hyper-cardioid (so-called super cardioid) capsules be used.
Interesting!
I'll have to give that a try - I've only ever done it with cardioids.

Thanks for the info.

Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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what plush mentioned - works really well in very reverberant spaces if some less ambient/a bit more direct sound is wanted/needed.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Even XY is half tolerable with the 41s. Best hypercardioid out there imo.. Though I would rather spot record at 3-4 feet with omnis than at 7 feet with a hypercardioid/supercardioid
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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jnorman's Avatar
Daniel - my use will largely be for micing solo flute in the studio. At 3 feet you get a lot of breath noise as well as key slaps, and most importantly, a more “harsh” kind of sound around 3-4k that mostly disappears as you move the mic out to 6-8 feet. Plus, hopefully, the hyper pattern will help reduce piano bleed for sonatas.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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jnorman's Avatar
Does anyone want to advocate for the mkh50 over the cmc641 for flute/winds?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Does anyone want to advocate for the mkh50 over the cmc641 for flute/winds?
I know it’s probably too cheap to be considered, but has anyone used the Sennheiser E-614?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Does anyone want to advocate for the mkh50 over the cmc641 for flute/winds?
Nope.

For dialogue on a film/TV set my preference is the 50 over the mk41 all day long. But for music I love the Schoeps.

-Mike
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