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Help for Choir Recording Condenser Microphones
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Help for Choir Recording

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed a lot, but can’t find any real good or modern data.

I’m going to be recording a small-ish (8 people) male and female vocal ensemble. The singers are all well trained and the space will be a very nice church with good/decent acoustics.

I’m trying to keep this relatively simple, and looking for a solid stereo pair or mics to use.

I’ve looked at things from a varying degree of cost.

Rode M5
Rode Nt5
sE sE7
sE sE8
sE 4400a (pricey)
AkG 414 (really pricey)
Neumann KM184 (super pricey)

I’d like to stay around 300-500 but if the mics were really worth it and super versatile I wouldn’t mind going up to $1000 reluctantly haha. My only mic is a TLM 102 as I really only do solo vocals on tracks at the moment, but looking to expand.

Any help pointed in the right direction, or suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Head
Spend some time in the older threads that apply, there is a lot of good information.

Particularly check out the Line Audio CM3 info, it is much discussed here.

Otherwise one might suggest,

Beyerdynamic MC910 (Buy used)
DPA 4060 or 4090
Rode NT5 *with NT45 omni capsules*

You should be looking at omnidirectional microphones in a good acoustic such as you describe.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
I'd go with the NT5s in a matched pair and add the omni capsules. Then add OM1s if budget permits.

You could then use just one pair, or mix the NT5s in Cardioid/NOS and the OM1s in Omni as a four mic array if you like.

If you're in the US, I'd be comfortable loaning you my pair of OM1s if you decide to buy a pair of cardioids.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG602 View Post
Hey guys, I know this has been discussed a lot, but can’t find any real good or modern data.

I’m going to be recording a small-ish (8 people) male and female vocal ensemble. The singers are all well trained and the space will be a very nice church with good/decent acoustics.

I’m trying to keep this relatively simple, and looking for a solid stereo pair or mics to use.

I’ve looked at things from a varying degree of cost.

Rode M5
Rode Nt5
sE sE7
sE sE8
sE 4400a (pricey)
AkG 414 (really pricey)
Neumann KM184 (super pricey)

I’d like to stay around 300-500 but if the mics were really worth it and super versatile I wouldn’t mind going up to $1000 reluctantly haha. My only mic is a TLM 102 as I really only do solo vocals on tracks at the moment, but looking to expand.

Any help pointed in the right direction, or suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks.
Hi, I regularly use the NT55 with omni capsule for choral recording. They sound great when you stand on the edge of the diffuse field. If you get too close you should either go EQs around 9 kHz if you do not want to accentuate all throat noises or tilt them slightly upwards. How much is very difficult to determine I think. If you can stand a bit closer, the Lineaudio om1 can be used in live situations. You do need a silent microphone amplifier with sufficient gain. They sound pretty good and are very sensitive all around, even in the frequencies above 10 kHz. The sE8 Cardioid gets good reviews but according to a French review on the Thomann site did not have the SN that is specified. You have to be further away than with an omni.
I think the help from TMetzinger can help you make a good choice if you live nearby.
I add two examples here. OM1, not very close and the NT55 omni further away.
Both on a Babyface pro.
Attached Files
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
....If you're in the US, I'd be comfortable loaning you my pair of OM1s if you decide to buy a pair of cardioids.
The Remotester's forum is a mighty friendly place with some very nice people.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for all the input!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Addict
I'd add Beyerdynamic MC930 to the list.

Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I'd suggest renting a really good pair of omni mics such as DPA or Schoeps.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Anyone have more samples they'd like to share?

James -- where are you located, and what is the purpose of the recording?

Last edited by NorseHorse; 2 weeks ago at 04:57 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
Omni pair on a ball, plus 2 pairs of figure-8. B9audio microphone

Last edited by 9sbean; 1 week ago at 03:41 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
Anyone have more samples they'd like to share?

James -- where are you located, and what is the purpose of the recording?
This one? Last Saterday evening. Johannes Passion JS Bach.

Babyface pro, Rode NT55 omni. 3,5m high,0,6 m wide. 1,8m behind the conductor.
Attached Thumbnails
Help for Choir Recording-opstelling.jpg   Help for Choir Recording-opstelling-nt55.jpg  
Attached Files

Mein teurer Heiland.mp3 (8.56 MB, 759 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for those examples!

The recording is for some better quality tracks to help the singers go over. I’ll be recording the dress rehearsals and they’ll use them to practice off of on their own.

The group is planning on their first full length album in the future.


As of now I have of at my disposal
Rode M5 stereo pair
Warm Audio 87 stereo pair (with zen pro audio mod)
1 TLM 102

Apollo 8 as the interface.

Using those mics any input on positioning and patterns? Thanks!
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Gear Head
 

ORTF or NOS with the M5s (or the 87s in cardioid).

If the acoustic is pleasant, as you suggested, then the 87s set to fig8 in Blumlein would also be worth trying.

If you haven't done this before, and given the non-critical purpose of the recording, I'd try to make the experience as educational as possible. With 4 pres in the Apollo, you can try out two stereo pairs at the same time.

Perhaps start out 8ft up, behind the conductor if there is one, or where they would be if there isn't, then listen and move. Consider the angle/width of the ensemble from the mics' viewpoint. Play with this: Visualisierung XY Stereo-Mikrofonsystem and read Michael Williams' 'The Stereophonic Zoom'.

Put the pairs on separate stands; the optimal ORTF position isn't going to be the same as that for Blumlein.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
DaveyJones's Avatar
 

Why not add another TLM 102 to your collection and use that in ORTF.

I love the balanced sound one can achieve from a small choral ensemble using that very setup.


Dave
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Here for the gear
 

I’m highly considering using the stereo pair WA87 like that in ORTF
Old 6 days ago
  #16
OAE
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dingenus View Post
This one? Last Saterday evening. Johannes Passion JS Bach.

Babyface pro, Rode NT55 omni. 3,5m high,0,6 m wide. 1,8m behind the conductor.
Thank you for the clip. Sounds nice. I was wondering if you could share a small clip from for example opening movement of the piece or part 2 or last movements? Would be nice to hear how tutti orchestra and choir sounds.
Old 6 days ago
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OAE View Post
Thank you for the clip. Sounds nice. I was wondering if you could share a small clip from for example opening movement of the piece or part 2 or last movements? Would be nice to hear how tutti orchestra and choir sounds.
I have a lot of problems with the recording because the 'power management' of the usb remained on which led to many clicks and distortion. I was able to filter out the most. These attachments are fairly clean.
I try to find a balance between the louder harmonics of the orchestra that is closer and comes in on the side of the microphone and the choir that is further away on axis, farder away in the diffuse field. For the soloists I try to set 2 mics left and right but in this place there was not enough room for a good position.

Here you can find a few videos of this concert: YouTube , YouTube , YouTube

Last edited by dingenus; 6 days ago at 07:00 PM.. Reason: supplement
Old 4 days ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
On a tight budget I'd go Line Audio all the way: CM3 NOS and OM1 flankers. I do not believe you can do better for the money. Check out some of the work done with these mics which have been posted to this board. They are remarkable. JPGerard has always been a real good guy to do business with. Line Audio can sell mics but it seems they prefer buiilding them and avoiding the retail market.

JPGerard's NoHype Audio has a five star rating here.

Line Audio - Swedish Made High Quality Audio Products - Available at NoHype Audio

This link has links to a bunch of reviews and discussions of the Line Audio OM1's and CM3's. Check it out.
Old 2 days ago
  #19
Lives for gear
YouTube
Session Notes: Winchester College Quiristers |

If the OP is still cogitating upon options, then the above links might open a few doors, using multiple pairs (and single mics) to give ambience choice at mix down
Old 2 days ago
  #20
Here for the gear
 

I agree with DaveyJones and get another TLM102. But I would recommend using them in a "spaced" setup with 8 vocalists. I've done some recordings exactly like what your planning to do. I'll use one mic if it's 4 or 5 vocalists and two mics in a spaced arrangement for 6 -12 vocalists. I typically end up using cardioid, but will also experiment with Omni. Just my one cent...
Old 2 days ago
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Also, I bet those Warm 87s would also do the job. If you're using the preamps in the Apollo (as opposed to external hardware pres) I think the 610 and VoxBox are my two favorite for recording a choir.
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