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MixPre: setting gain when MS linking Condenser Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

MixPre: setting gain when MS linking

I use an MKH 8060 with a CCM 8 for MS. The MKH 8060 having an output of 63 mV/Pa and the CCM 8 of just 12 mV/Pa I generally want about 10 dB more gain on the side channel to get good recording levels.

Linking channels for stereo on the MixPre 6 includes linking the gain settings (what is a good thing) but beside linking it forces the gain settings to default to the same level. As far as I know there is no way around this or am I missing something here?

Other recorders (e.g. Aaton Cantar) respect the difference in gain you set before linking as far as I know.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
There must be off set trim surely
Gain matching (and mic matching!) is essential imho
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Why not adjust the width (fader knob 2)? That is simply adjusting the difference in the gain between the M and S mic.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the tip with the width. I tried that but it has no influence on the iso track. Is there a way to set it so it does? I don’t think so...
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiks View Post
Thanks for the tip with the width. I tried that but it has no influence on the iso track. Is there a way to set it so it does? I don’t think so...
Sounds like you have the MS decode set to Mix only rather than ISOs and Mix (change via inputs setting).

R
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 View Post
Sounds like you have the MS decode set to Mix only rather than ISOs and Mix (change via inputs setting).

R
Yes, I surely don't want to have it decoded on the iso tracks. Every post guy I know asks to get the M and S as separated signals.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiks View Post
Yes, I surely don't want to have it decoded on the iso tracks. Every post guy I know asks to get the M and S as separated signals.
Sure, but using the width function to match levels between the M & S mics will only work when decoding. If I had two mics with very different outputs (my MS mics are usually very similar/matched) I wouldn't link at all, but would set levels appropriately and independently for each mic, record M & S as ISOs and monitor in LR via the MS headphone preset. If that doesn't work for you and your workflow (are you using MS in conjunction with several other mics?), then submit a request to SD: many of us requested changes to the MS functionality that has progressed with firmware releases.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Hi Roland,

thanks again for your help. Linking is a fine thing in documentary work where you often have to be quick and can't anticipate what will happen next, so limiters are very welcome little helpers but they really need to be linked for proper stereo work. I already discussed the matter with SD but I had the feeling they didn't completely understand my point. Anyway, at the end they said they will think about it as a feature request for a future firmware update but I haven't had any news since then.

Regards,
Tom
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Gear Addict
What about inserting a -10db mic pad on the center channel mic before the micpre.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 
whippoorwill's Avatar
Is there any objective way of figuring out relative m to s ratios for different mics? Given that you know sensitive, impedance, etc.?
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Its normally 10 dB ish tween M and S peaks on a PPM.
I never iso though
Listen in mono for balance and add S for width and field
Send that to iso perhaps
It so much easier with matched gain and mics.....
Old 3 days ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 

i'm using an offset as needed (if going for much different mics which i sometimes do) but i'm using a gang function on the gains: i want them to measure the same while recording but i'm mostly mixing the sides lower.
Old 2 days ago
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for all your answers. A -10dB pad on the Sennheiser would be a quick but somewhat dirty solution...

I think we mostly agree that levels should be about the same for M and S if recorded to iso tracks. This could be very easily implemented to the MixPre by a firmware update. I will write once more to Sound Devices and hope they understand that my request really has a point. And by the way, the combination of the two mics I use is less exotic than one might think, Cinela for example has exactly this combo on their price list.

Best,
Tom
Old 1 day ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
celticrogues's Avatar
 

I don’t really see why this feature would be necessary in practice. As an academic exercise, sure, but in the real world what does it matter?

After all, the whole point of recording MS is complete flexibility in post. So if you’re decoding the pair in the recorder, use the width control as already mentioned. If you’re recording ISO’s, well then you’re going to decode those to taste later anyway. It doesn’t really matter if they were recorded at similar levels or not - just add gain or subtract gain in post to get it sounding the way you want.

Use your ears, not the blinky lights!

-Mike
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