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New Sony PCM-D10 Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 27th March 2019
  #31
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There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?
Old 27th March 2019
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?
I see what you mean about the distinction between using references vs. drawing direct comparisons... although I'm still not against the idea of reading direct comparisons. To each his/her own, I guess.

As for whether the preamp comparison between these two recorders would influence me, probably not... although if a similar review compared a different low cost recorder more favorably to its high end counterpart, I would definitely take note. Two such examples come to mind. I seem to remember hearing that the Tascam HS-P82 holds up remarkably well considering how much less it costs than its SD counterpart. In the realm of mics, the Line Audio CM3 and OM1 are often compared with their Schoeps counterparts at roughly 10x the price. No one expects the underdog to outshine its top tier counterpart, but if it even comes close, that's useful information.

So, perhaps it was unhelpful to complain about the Sony preamp not matching an SD preamp, but I don't think that means that the comparison shouldn't be made in the first place. Perhaps a better approach would be to compare the two devices with a greater emphasis on which traits are more closely matched between them. That way, people like me, who have experienced some really nice gear but can't afford to own it, could see how things measure up against a known standard, and in which categories these less expensive devices excel.
Old 29th March 2019
  #33
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I can't decide between buying the PCM D100 or the new D10. I'm recording music for opera rehearsal purposes. While the noise floor is probably less important, the quality of the built in microphones is paramount--I won't be carrying around a big sound bag but need good fidelity. I'll be reviewing the audio immediately after recording so quality of the headphone pre-amp is arguably as important as the mic pre-amp. I also like the idea of playback through bluetooth speakers at times but would likely listen mostly by high quality headphones to get the best fidelity of the sound and overtones. I like the size and DSD capabilities of the D100 but hear that the headphone amp on the D10 is supposed to be better. Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
Old 29th March 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
I don't think you'll find many people here who've done that yet, since as far as I know the PCM-D10 is only available in Asia right now. It's supposed to be available in North America and Europe starting in April (i.e. anytime after this week!), but it's not clear how fast delivery will be.

I'm in a similar debate; the D-100 is widely tested so at least it's a sure thing; the other point to consider (which won't be relevant for you unless you're recording opera outdoors!) is that Rycote make a lyre and windscreen for the D-100 and it's not clear when/if those would be available for the D10. The dimensions are different enough that I doubt the Rycote kit for the D100 would work for the D10. You'd at least want the lyre or something else to serve as suspension, as the D100 is very sensitive to handling noise so I imagine the D10 is as well.

I wouldn't even be considering this recorder (I already have a good portable recorder and a MS rig) but there are times when I'm traveling overseas and have very limited baggage space, so a smaller recorder may be all I can handle.
Old 30th March 2019
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeVlad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
"When using the XLR inputs, the D10 is noisier than the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders. Granted, these are recorders with more features and in different price categories, but it still is a bit disappointing."

The guy buys a $500 recorder and is disappointed that it does not have the same performance as a couple of Sound Devices boxes that are more than 3 and almost 7 times it's cost?!? Respected indeed.
Right, so the reason I compared it with the two recorders in question is because that's what I had on hand. It's also what a lot of the folks I know work with so it provides an easy benchmark.

One other thing: the Kashmir preamps in the 10T can also be found on the cheaper Mixpre 3 and 6 so in the end I think it's not a 100% unfair comparison.

At any rate, do let me know what you'd like me to test the D10 against and I'll try to do it after my next field recording trip.
Sounds like you have experience with the D100 and the D10. Ignoring noise floor, how do the built in XY microphones and the headphone amps compare between the two?

Thanks
Old 31st March 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There is a difference between making a reference and making a direct comparison...saying that the Mixwizard's EQ sounds similar to console "X" is not making a comparison between the two console, it's making reference to a known type of performance.

Declaring that you're disappointed that the preamps on the Mixwizard are not a clean as those on the SSL live however is a very different thing.

Just curious, but now that you've heard that it does not perform as well as the Sound Devices Mixpre 10T or 633 recorders, will that affect your buying decision?

Actually -- yes. I'm looking for a stereo field recorder smaller than my Zoom F8 and with equal or nicer preamps. Like the reviewer, I also have an M10, which I love, but will need something with XLR inputs for my new pair of MKH8040s. Was debating exactly this, the new Sony PCM-D10 vs Sound Devices MixPre-3 -- which, as the reviewer says in this thread, uses the same Kashmir preamps as are in the 10M. According to the specs, it looked like the D10 XLR preamps would not be as good as the Kashmir ones, but it is helpful to hear the reviewer's direct experiences (also on other areas, like battery life, build quality).

The reviewer's choice of comparisons is on point, in my opinion, given the current rotation of new recorders. Recall also that, while no one expected the Zoom F8 ($1k) to beat the Sound Devices 6/7 ($3-7k) series on sound quality, it was still a valid question of how close it would get. And Sound Devices seemed to take the comparison seriously enough that they released the new MixPre series ($400 - 1700), with Kashmir preamps that do seem to be comparable to those on the 6/7 series (the lines are still differentiated in other ways).
Old 8th April 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
Sounds like you have experience with the D100 and the D10. Ignoring noise floor, how do the built in XY microphones and the headphone amps compare between the two?

Thanks
In my original review I compared the on-board mics in the D10 and D100: Handheld recorder review and comparison — Mindful Audio. Scroll down for examples.

TL;DR the D100 sounds decidedly better and cleaner even if you don't take self-noise into account. If you'll be mainly using the on-board mics, the obvious choice is the D100.
Old 8th April 2019
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by operarara View Post
I can't decide between buying the PCM D100 or the new D10. I'm recording music for opera rehearsal purposes. While the noise floor is probably less important, the quality of the built in microphones is paramount--I won't be carrying around a big sound bag but need good fidelity. I'll be reviewing the audio immediately after recording so quality of the headphone pre-amp is arguably as important as the mic pre-amp. I also like the idea of playback through bluetooth speakers at times but would likely listen mostly by high quality headphones to get the best fidelity of the sound and overtones. I like the size and DSD capabilities of the D100 but hear that the headphone amp on the D10 is supposed to be better. Can anyone who has used both devices verify this?
Gosh, where to start...

So quality of the mics is "paramount" and you want high quality HP amp but then playing back through BT speakers is OK too? You do know that BT audio is data-reduced right?

It all sounds like you need an SD MixPre3 really. Far from being a big sound bag. The machine itself is almost the same size anyway.
Old 9th April 2019
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Gosh, where to start...

So quality of the mics is "paramount" and you want high quality HP amp but then playing back through BT speakers is OK too? You do know that BT audio is data-reduced right?

It all sounds like you need an SD MixPre3 really. Far from being a big sound bag. The machine itself is almost the same size anyway.
To apple-q: Thank you for your unnecessarily snarky comment.

Yes I'm aware that bluetooth audio is sent at reduced sample rate and bit depth and dependent on the DA converters of the bluetooth speaker rather than those of the unit doing the sending. Never implied it would be my primary method of review. I was pretty clear that I'm going to be doing critical listening on headphones through the headphone preamp but bluetooth playback may be a helpful feature for some situations (ie. immediate playback to other performers).

Not everyone uses their equipment the same way you do. I'm a singer, not a sound engineer, and these recordings are for rehearsal purposes.

I asked about the quality of the built in mics because I don't want to be carrying outboard mics and cords to rehearsals/practices. Plus, a matched pair or stereo mic and cords would be extra cost. Pretty sure the on-board mics of the MixPre3 aren't going to be as good as either Sony ;P.

Thanks to George Vlad for your helpful response regarding built-in mic quality. I am definitely leaning to D100. Any thoughts on the relative quality of the headphone preamps between the two?
Old 11th April 2019
  #40
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I haven't noticed a drastic difference in headpphone amp quality. FYI I'm happy with what the headphones sound like on the D100 even for very subtle soundscapes.
Old 15th April 2019
  #41
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Does anyone know where in the USA I can get this? B&H said available on April 15th for months and now on their site it shows May 1st. I can't seem to find any other authorized retailer that sells it

Any one here have any idea who carries this in stock?
Old 16th April 2019
  #42
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It's been available in Japan for awhile and I found one in Hong Kong. If BH have changed their date to May 1st, then because they are one of the biggest retailers, it may not come to North America on April 15th anymore. Maybe check with Sweetwater on their arrival date?
Old 16th April 2019
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfield View Post
It's been available in Japan for awhile and I found one in Hong Kong. If BH have changed their date to May 1st, then because they are one of the biggest retailers, it may not come to North America on April 15th anymore. Maybe check with Sweetwater on their arrival date?

Checked with them and others. Sweetwater doesn't even have it in their system to pre-roder.

B&H can't be the only US retailer?
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