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Cassette on location with AD comparison Digital Converters
Old 4 weeks ago
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
musician

main
mic



+00- -00+

(fig8) (fig8)
Thank you! I misunderstood what you meant by "outwards," that clarified it perfectly. I'll look forward to trying that technique.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Great recording, great thread! [...]
Looking forward to updates as you continue with this project!
Thanks so much!

Yannick, I will do a multitrack recording as a test, but I always like the idea of mixing to two track, even if by building a passive summing box.

I also wonder about which would have some nice advantages of the instrument being even more diffuse:

+00- -00+




musician

main
mic
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
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whippoorwill's Avatar
I have had some great success with spaced figure 8's 90degrees to the source..
I hope no-one minds if I update this thread from time to time with AD tests.
I am posting the Prism Lyra (AD1) and Merging Hapi (AD3) ones again to make it easier for people to compare.
A new mystery AD (AD4) is presented. All files are level matched.
I am going to demo another AD in the next couple weeks and will run the test again.
Looking forward to anyone listening and commenting!
Attached Files

AD4.mp3 (6.73 MB, 919 views)

AD1.mp3 (6.74 MB, 928 views)

AD3.mp3 (6.74 MB, 919 views)

Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
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Yannick's Avatar
 

How does it sound with the fig8 mixed in ?

I am still most satisfied with AD1. AD3 is not OK for me, I find the sound disturbing, cannot relax and enjoy the music. AD4 is also not as nice as AD1.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
I have had some great success with spaced figure 8's 90degrees to the source..
I hope no-one minds if I update this thread from time to time with AD tests.
I am posting the Prism Lyra (AD1) and Merging Hapi (AD3) ones again to make it easier for people to compare.
A new mystery AD (AD4) is presented. All files are level matched.
I am going to demo another AD in the next couple weeks and will run the test again.
Looking forward to anyone listening and commenting!
The differences are pronounced.

AD1 = wonderfully balanced sound with good but not obtrusive amount of detail.
AD3 = too much detail and balance is shifted towards overly bright.
AS4 = darker sound. much less detail. maybe a less revealing dac.

I should add that in this environment with this mic on the female voice I would prefer AD1 and even AD4. However, it could be that with another source AD2 would be a better combination. I would have to hear more and different sources of acoustical music to get the whole picture. But in this example, I find AD1 superb. AD4 works alright because it has less brightness, but it also seems rather less refined.

P.S. It really helps to download the three files to your harddisk and play them in a good DAW.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
Gear Nut
 

Listened on HD25 on iphone.
In a way I understand why tape is popular, as it removes lots of annoying ”s” and other ”air-based” sounds.

However, I much prefere the digital versions.
Tape can sound good, but the ”noise” or compression artefacts in between the tones sound slightly ”grainy” and disturbing to me in this example, and I recognise this from my old tapes.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
Listened on HD25 on iphone.
In a way I understand why tape is popular, as it removes lots of annoying ”s” and other ”air-based” sounds.

However, I much prefere the digital versions.
Tape can sound good, but the ”noise” or compression artefacts in between the tones sound slightly ”grainy” and disturbing to me in this example, and I recognise this from my old tapes.
Yes, I want to find a darker (than others) but very detailed AD for digital-only work. This is more of a question of money and a lack of demos available in Canada than it is of candidates, although recommendations are welcome... I don't like the high end of most ADs and I don't even find them particularly neutral or true to life, I spend frequent time listening to microphones direct from preamps and a lot of the sibilance is not as pronounced as post AD, but I can't prove this over the internet!

The noise on cassettes can be improved about 10-20db from where it is on my recording simply by changing cassette and using Dolby B or C. I am working on these aspects but the cassette machine is very new to me- it came back from repair literally hours before I did the recording in this thread.

There is a certain spirit or geist to a cassette recording and magnetic tape that I find draws me to it- a strange fragile feeling of permanence like the feeling of standing on graves or looking at symbolic objects which outweighs the distortions.

Last edited by whippoorwill; 2 weeks ago at 04:42 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
...I want to find a darker (than others) but very detailed AD for digital-only work. This is more of a question of money and a lack of demos available in Canada than it is of candidates, although recommendations are welcome... I don't like the high end of most ADs and I don't even find them particularly neutral or true to life...
i can related to that: i've been testing (or at least comparing) quite a few converters and came to prefer some older designs from studer, euphonix and ssl over newer designs from merging or dad. on some mics/instruments, i prefer rme though while a friend of mine gets very nice results with prism, lavry and mytek converters: lots of choices! - and what may work well for 2-track may not be preferable for multitrack...

if things wouldn't get too complicated, consuming too much time/effort while tracking, i'd use a combination different converters more often.

i wouldn't however use tape anymore (well i do, but then we're talking about an all-analog studio)...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i can related to that: i've been testing (or at least comparing) quite a few converters and came to prefer some older designs from studer, euphonix and ssl over newer designs from merging or dad. on some mics/instruments, i prefer rme though while a friend of mine gets very nice results with prism, lavry and mytek converters: lots of choices! - and what may work well for 2-track may not be preferable for multitrack...

if things wouldn't get too complicated, consuming too much time/effort while tracking, i'd use a combination different converters more often.

i wouldn't however use tape anymore (well i do, but then we're talking about an all-analog studio)...
Converters come in different flavours, and much of it depends on what kind of recording you use them for. The Merging is very detailed and that can be a blessing when doing a recording of a large orchestra from a further distance. When tracking a solo voice from close distance it can proof to be too much. I find the Mytek and the Prism more agreable in such circumstances. Personally I am also very satisfied with Antelope because of its transparent and yet never harsh sound. I find the old-school converters a bit dull when tracking a large orchestra in a great hall, but I can understand why people would prefer them in close-up situations. BTW, I am curious to hear what AD4 is....
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
...I find the old-school converters a bit dull when tracking a large orchestra in a great hall, but I can understand why people would prefer them in close-up situations...
...except that i refer to some older converters not being dull but much rather some newer converters being overly bright - different hearing/taste i guess.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...except that i refer to some older converters not being dull but much rather some newer converters being overly bright - different hearing/taste i guess.
Did you find the Prism overly bright in this example?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Did you find the Prism overly bright in this example?
I find the Prism brighter than the actual tape or my preamps.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
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huub's Avatar
Cool.
Would have been interesting to hear a straight to digital version as well
But the cassette sound suits this music very well.
Sounds great.

Edit: this is about the first post of this thread.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Cool.
Would have been interesting to hear a straight to digital version as well
But the cassette sound suits this music very well.
Sounds great.

Edit: this is about the first post of this thread.
I think the 'all-digital' version was posted at #18 above, although OP stated that it was a slightly different take with overdubs.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
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whippoorwill's Avatar
I should be able to pick up another AD (and final!) tomorrow or Friday but here is another digitisation, possibly my favourite so far for the separation and it takes out some mud in the lower midrange. It's only been an hour so I could change my mind but it feels more like a 3D voice sitting in front of me.

I will do a reveal over the weekend if anyone is still listening by then.

Also Yannick, I've been doing some more tests with that figure 8 configuration, but I have yet to try it in this exact context. In other ways it is my new favourite ambience miking (although I am hoping to do more omni boundary experiments).
I always had trouble with having spaced omni pairs integrating into the main pair but this practice really works very well because its so much about extreme L&R width with very little correlation to the main pair.
Attached Files

AD5.mp3 (6.73 MB, 483 views)

AD1.mp3 (6.74 MB, 473 views)


Last edited by whippoorwill; 2 weeks ago at 10:21 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
I should be able to pick up another AD (and final!) tomorrow or Friday but here is another digitisation, possibly my favourite so far for the separation and it takes out some mud in the lower midrange. It's only been an hour so I could change my mind but it feels more like a 3D voice sitting in front of me.

I will do a reveal over the weekend if anyone is still listening by then.
In this case I preferred AD5: AD1 has electrified highs which make it somewhat unnatural sounding. AD5 is much more "real" and pleasant sounding.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #47
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Here it is, the final digitisations.
I'm amazed how the tape hasn't really seemed to degrade with these plays.
Anyways I'll reveal the results in a little while, hopefully people get a chance to listen and state their preferences before I reveal. The original post has a lot of listens!
It's amazing to have a relatively static source with which to compare different digitisations.

AD1 and AD5 thrown in there for repetitions sake.
Attached Files

AD6.mp3 (6.73 MB, 412 views)

AD7.mp3 (6.73 MB, 404 views)

AD5.mp3 (6.73 MB, 359 views)

AD1.mp3 (6.74 MB, 355 views)

AD7.mp3 (6.73 MB, 410 views)

AD8.mp3 (6.73 MB, 404 views)

Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
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i gave up after about version 5 or 6...

anyway, while you have all these great converters to compare: do yourself a favour and record some instruments with lots of transients and some in the lowest register; maybe also play some airy and some dense/loud tracks through the converters - not sure you'll get to the same conclusions for all different sources...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #49
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i gave up after about version 5 or 6...

anyway, while you have all these great converters to compare: do yourself a favour and record some instruments with lots of transients and some in the lowest register; maybe also play some airy and some dense/loud tracks through the converters - not sure you'll get to the same conclusions for all different sources...
I should say that these are not necessarily all distinct ADs, just different ways of using a few ADs. I absolutely understand that at this point it’s more tedious than interesting for most.
I have a few recording sessions planned to test this new AD, but this gives me an idea of what to listen for because the constantly changing nature of live sound can slightly obscure differences.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #50
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Deceptions

So I will finally reveal what's going on here.
AD1 = Prism Lyra with no-brand cheap minijack cable
AD2 = Sound Devices 744T with same cable and clocked from Lyra
AD3 = Merging Hapi
AD4 = Prism Lyra with OFC Litz cable
AD5 = Prism Lyra with Neotech silver cable 26AWG (1ft long!)
AD6 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter slow & Neotech silver cable
AD7 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter sharp & Neotech silver cable
AD8 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter slow & no-brand cheap minijack cable

my mistake was posting too much at the end- people got bored- however someone's gonna find this while scrolling through the archives in 2021 and have a bit of fun.

AD5 and AD7 are really quite similar.

Last edited by whippoorwill; 2 weeks ago at 01:39 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #51
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jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
So I will finally reveal what's going on here.
AD1 = Prism Lyra with no-brand cheap minijack cable
AD2 = Sound Devices 744T with same cable and clocked from Lyra
AD3 = Merging Hapi
AD4 = Prism Lyra with OFC Litz cable
AD5 = Prism Lyra with Neotech silver cable 26AWG (1ft long!)
AD6 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter slow & Neotech silver cable
AD7 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter sharp & Neotech silver cable
AD8 = RME ADI-2 PRO (not FS) with AD filter slow & no-brand cheap minijack cable

my mistake was posting too much at the end- people got bored- however someone's gonna find this while scrolling through the archives in 2021 and have a bit of fun.

AD5 and AD7 are really quite similar.
it has been very interesting !! thank you ..
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
it has been very interesting !! thank you ..
thanks for taking the time to listen!

I now have a notebook of ways to transfer tapes. Then there are the cassettes themselves. You can take an analog source and how you hit (level/frequencies of source) whichever tape and then how you transfer it can change the tonality in many different ways, with each change potentially useful.
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