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Rode NT-SF1 and Soundfield SPS200 Condenser Microphones
Old 6 days ago
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Blanchardon View Post
Hello Gentlemen !

I have the privilege to be the owner of both a Soundfield SPS200 since around 10 years and now of a Rode NT-SF1.

After a 4 months trip abroad, my SPS200 just came back as well as new with 4 new capsules and calibration from Rode factory in Australia.

The Rode NT-SF1 is my second one after some troubles I had with the first one (they call this "youth problems") He was over-sensitive (to humidity) and had one quite a noisy capsule. Ah ! Younglings...

Anyway, now is time for the confrontation, the old champion versus the challenger so stay tuned for the next turn of events !

Referee for this bout will be in the person of the honorable Sonosax SX-R4+ accompanied to it's fellow AD8+, a quite distinguished pair from Switzerland planning to record the fight in 24bits/96Khz, but it's also possible to oblige them to 32/192 if you ask nicely.

Stephane.
A friend here in Auckland also uses his SPS200 with a SX-R4+

grantfinlay.com
Old 6 days ago
  #32
Gear Head
 

IronFilm -
If you don't mind - I was wondering if you might ask your friend whether he happens to use the optional Ambeo input module on his SX-R4+ for his SPS200... I asked Sonosax but never received an answer about whether its wired the same / would also work with the SP200 / Rode NT-SF1 cables.
Suppose it would but... Thx
Old 6 days ago
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAamb View Post
has anyone had problems with digital errors in tracks from an SPS200? I purchased one new last summer and found digital spikes in each track (random intervals every few minutes). I was using a Mix Pre 6. I tried again indoors with Allen and Heath board to DAW, same problem. I sent the mic back to Rode, they sent me a new one and finding the same issue! Thanks for any input
No, I don't experience these errors. In order to function in a stable way, the SPS200 needs phantom power on all 4 capsules, but that is probably provided for?
BTW, you do know that phase of the SPS200 must be inversed?
Old 6 days ago
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
A friend here in Auckland also uses his SPS200 with a SX-R4+

grantfinlay.com
I would strongly advise to track pure A format. If the conversion to B format isn't optimized for the mic in question it will deliver sub-optimal results.
The best way to find out if this applies to your situation is to sonically compare both methods, of course.
Old 5 days ago
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
No, I don't experience these errors. In order to function in a stable way, the SPS200 needs phantom power on all 4 capsules, but that is probably provided for?
BTW, you do know that phase of the SPS200 must be inversed?
I do have phantom on all channels - and have used it through Sound Devices and separately through mixing board. I didn't know about inverting phase. ... Just found your explanation in another thread. Many thanks for the reply
Old 1 day ago
  #36
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orange's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAamb View Post
I do have phantom on all channels - and have used it through Sound Devices and separately through mixing board. I didn't know about inverting phase. ... Just found your explanation in another thread. Many thanks for the reply
I've a ntfs1 on backorder so watching this thread with interest - my first foray into ambisonics

I'm not totally sure on why the phase on the SPS200 needs inverting - I read that old thread through:

soundfield mic for stereo application

what part is out of phase ?

Old 1 day ago
  #37
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
I've a ntfs1 on backorder so watching this thread with interest - my first foray into ambisonics

I'm not totally sure on why the phase on the SPS200 needs inverting - I read that old thread through:

soundfield mic for stereo application

what part is out of phase ?

Hopefully can be answered by Lucas_G as I'm not totally sure either. In my case, I'm combining Soundfield recording with accelerometer (scientific version of contact microphones) insect recordings made separately. I'm not sure if the phase issue would only apply if combining Soundfield recordings with other mic recordings of the same time and space? I flipped the phase and didn't hear any audible difference, at least for the source and context of what I'm doing
Old 10 hours ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
I've a ntfs1 on backorder so watching this thread with interest - my first foray into ambisonics

I'm not totally sure on why the phase on the SPS200 needs inverting - I read that old thread through:

soundfield mic for stereo application

what part is out of phase ?

All 4 capsules of the SPS200 have inverted phase. If you use the SPS200 without any other mic mixed to it, then it is a little less important to invert phase back in post, but I would still do it, because even then it sounds a little bit weird. If you mix other mics (that do not invert phase) with the SPS200, then it is VITAL to invert phase on the SPS200, otherwise you may get terrible frequency response and other problems due the two opposite phases that are being mixed together.
As you can read in the old thread, it has been overlooked by Soundfield when designing the mic. They could have cured it by changing the cabling or add it in their plugins. However, they are not interested in sound quality or QC, so, despite their promises, they do nothing about it.... really sad!
Old 10 hours ago
  #39
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rubbish! you seem to have a flawed concept of what phase is/does.

if the outputs were reversed in polarity (which i doubt), this would be only a minor issue if you'd put another mic very close to the sps200 (you could still use a polarity flip on the preamp of this mic, so no big deal); it's no concern at all when using the soundfield as the main mic and a couple of spot mics as one usually does...
Old 3 hours ago
  #40
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orange's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
If you mix other mics (that do not invert phase) with the SPS200, then it is VITAL to invert phase on the SPS200, otherwise you may get terrible frequency response and other problems due the two opposite phases that are being mixed together.

thanks for the explanation - it seems to me you always have the potential for phase problems when you have multiple mics recording the same source. Mics at a different place in space will receive the pressure wave at a slightly different time - this means that the phase difference will be highly dependent on frequency.

If flipping the phase on one (or many) mics helps, then
Old 41 minutes ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
thanks for the explanation - it seems to me you always have the potential for phase problems when you have multiple mics recording the same source. Mics at a different place in space will receive the pressure wave at a slightly different time - this means that the phase difference will be highly dependent on frequency.

If flipping the phase on one (or many) mics helps, then
Yes, that might sometimes be the case when blending in spot mics for instance. However, normally you want to start with a normal (not inverted) phases mic, so it is vital to correct the SPS200 somewhere in your recording chain.

If the oter mics are on the main array, or have approximately the same distance to the source, then you end up with a total disaster when not inverting the phase. It is really so bad that you CANNOT mix the SPS200 with other mics.

BTW, I rarely flip phase on my spotmics. If they are really used as spots (20dB or more under your main array) then they function much better when nog flipped 180 degrees, even when not time-aligned.
Old 20 minutes ago
  #42
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orange's Avatar
 

my understanding of the "standard" is that a positive pressure on the diaphragm = positive voltage on pin 2. So if they sps200 doesn't do this then strictly speaking it's out of phase with 99% of mics out there.

wonder why they did that ? maybe the original soundfield processing would flip the phase. Either way, it's worth knowing . If I ever get hold of my ntsf1 I'll see if it exhibits the same behaviour
Old 4 minutes ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
my understanding of the "standard" is that a positive pressure on the diaphragm = positive voltage on pin 2. So if they sps200 doesn't do this then strictly speaking it's out of phase with 99% of mics out there.

wonder why they did that ? maybe the original soundfield processing would flip the phase. Either way, it's worth knowing . If I ever get hold of my ntsf1 I'll see if it exhibits the same behaviour

It was al explained in that old SPS200 thread. The developer didn't want to add yet an extra opamp stage to flip phase, which is a very valid approach. The rest of the designteam didn't do their homework. They could have easily changed the soldering to the pins... Soundfield didn't care about sound quality. Hopefully that will change now that they are part of Rode.
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