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Just two chords in Studio Headphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Just two chords in

Here is the first five seconds of tonight's recording:

Now a question. For tonight's recording, I made some changes in the position of the mics based on yesterday's dress rehearsal. During the dress rehearsal, listening on my closed-back headphones, I couldn't tune out the live sound enough to make any judgments about what was going on, but once I got home, I could hear problems, and adjusted according to my best guess, and they seem to have worked. I'm in the front row with an ORTF configuration over my head.

So the question is, how do you guys make mic adjustments during dress rehearsal? Maybe your headphones are better at isolating the actual sound of the orchestra? I might as well not even listen to what I've recorded. When the orchestra takes a break, a lot of musicians remain on the stage and practice their parts for the next section.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.
Attached Files

Beethoven 1 Cough.mp3 (196.6 KB, 441 views)


Last edited by Early21; 1 week ago at 06:00 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
I try to not be in the same room, hall, theatre, church etc as the event...aim to find a next door room to locate yourself in. In a church this might be the priest’s vestry, or a storage room or a hallway, in a concert hall or theatre it might be the dressing room or artist’s green room or a lighting booth or the PA system’s mixing station. In a rural setting it might even be your car !

In other words, any location that puts a wall or a door between you and the performers. Of course that immediately requires that you have a sufficiently long multicore snake or mic cables, and if you’re not running the recorder and any monitoring entirely off batteries, you’ll also require mains power in your newly found monitoring room.

A big hassle and time consuming addition to your setup and preparation....? Yes, but you get used to it. Cost effective in terms of giving you more confident monitoring and hence better mic placement and thus better recordings....? Yes, absolutely. When you have recorded in that location several times you may become sure enough in your mic adjustments that you can remain in the same room/hall, but until then....GET OUT !

This applies especially to the rehearsal... and I guess if you’re feeling especially neglected or lonely you could move your recording gear and yourself into the concert hall for the event, after your rehearsal adjustments....but it’s often too much trouble to do so (or else not enough time)

Anyway, I really enjoy the calm, solitude and ability to concentrate that being away from “the action” allows....and if you’re diligent you’ll be writing voluminous notes to yourself regarding mix, extraneous noises, times of movement breaks etc during the concert...absolutely no time for boredom or reading a book ! Being away from the “action” simply makes you more professional....end of sermon!
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
In a perfect world there is a control room or booth where you can set up your rig, and even use monitors. I suspect this is the world of Plush and other recording gods. In my reality it is as studer58 says - a vestry, a green room, a broom closet or a corridor. When I have no other choice than to record from the audience, I always use a record-playback-adjust-record-playback-confirm approach during dress rehearsal. There's inevitably a few breaks in there somewhere when you can work feverishly to improve the setup. Breaks are for musicians, not lowly recording engineers...

Oh...and for those few dedicated musicians who remain on stage? You can always ask politely for some 'tuning time' or, failing that, start doing a lot of noisy gaffa-taping onstage to drive them away :D

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 1 week ago at 12:03 PM.. Reason: edited for clarity
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I try to not be in the same room, hall, theatre, church etc as the event...aim to find a next door room to locate yourself in. In a church this might be the priest’s vestry, or a storage room or a hallway, in a concert hall or theatre it might be the dressing room or artist’s green room or a lighting booth or the PA system’s mixing station. In a rural setting it might even be your car !

In other words, any location that puts a wall or a door between you and the performers. Of course that immediately requires that you have a sufficiently long multicore snake or mic cables, and if you’re not running the recorder and any monitoring entirely off batteries, you’ll also require mains power in your newly found monitoring room.

A big hassle and time consuming addition to your setup and preparation....? Yes, but you get used to it. Cost effective in terms of giving you more confident monitoring and hence better mic placement and thus better recordings....? Yes, absolutely. When you have recorded in that location several times you may become sure enough in your mic adjustments that you can remain in the same room/hall, but until then....GET OUT !

This applies especially to the rehearsal... and I guess if you’re feeling especially neglected or lonely you could move your recording gear and yourself into the concert hall for the event, after your rehearsal adjustments....but it’s often too much trouble to do so (or else not enough time)

Anyway, I really enjoy the calm, solitude and ability to concentrate that being away from “the action” allows....and if you’re diligent you’ll be writing voluminous notes to yourself regarding mix, extraneous noises, times of movement breaks etc during the concert...absolutely no time for boredom or reading a book ! Being away from the “action” simply makes you more professional....end of sermon!
Even with the best closed back headphones there is some leakage so yes I always try and be somewhere out of the hall or church. i even carry along a small video setup so I can look at what is happening in the hall. Works GREAT!

FWIW
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Yes, having a separate room for monitoring
is ideal but I never have that luxury. For when
you have no choice but to be in the room with musicians, I can highly recommend the David Clark ( yes, they make aircraft headsets)
10S-DC Stereo Headset.They have a 23db NRR, are extremely comfortable and other than being
a little weak in the bass the tonal balance is excellent. In a loud environment I can still hear clearly what I am monitoring with comfortable
headphone levels. Even after a few hours I don’t notice ear fatigue.Stereo Headset | David Clark Company | Worcester, MA
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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tourtelot's Avatar
Hi-end in-ears make all the difference.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
HD25s isolate well and pretty accurate ,Nagra VI has excellent monitor amp
I listen front of stage right at floor level to orchs of 90 and choirs of 100 in a large hall with 800 audience and still hear detail in spades
It can be done without aircraft comms
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
HD25s isolate well and pretty accurate ,Nagra VI has excellent monitor amp
I listen front of stage right at floor level to orchs of 90 and choirs of 100 in a large hall with 800 audience and still hear detail in spades
It can be done without aircraft comms
Just to clarify, David Clark makes aircraft headsets but the 10S-DC are regular stereo headphones-not aircraft coms.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Thanks, all, there are many good suggestions here. I especially like the solutions proposed that don't involve moving equipment into a closet, since it would require more setup time than I usually get, and would require lots of running back and forth to adjust, so if there's a solution that lets me stay in front of the orchestra, I want to give it a try.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
Just to clarify, David Clark makes aircraft headsets but the 10S-DC are regular stereo headphones-not aircraft coms.
There's also this hybrid by Remote Audio, which uses the David Clark ear cups equipped with Sony 7506 drivers: High Noise Headset - Remote Audio
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
HD25s isolate well and pretty accurate ,Nagra VI has excellent monitor amp
I listen front of stage right at floor level to orchs of 90 and choirs of 100 in a large hall with 800 audience and still hear detail in spades
It can be done without aircraft comms
Man, not for me. I find that especially when I sit in the wings SL, the basses just come right through any sort of over-ears I have tried. And that really skews the music in a way I can't stand. I'd love to have a "broom closet" in most of my venues but it is just never gonna be.

Etymotic Research ER4SR Studio Reference Earphones | Sweetwater

With custom molds. Nothing like them in my experience for the times I need to be on-stage. Not sayin' the Etys are the best, and don't want to start an in-ear flame war but they work well for me. Those David Clarke "Mickey Mouse" phones can not sound flat. Sorry.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Man, not for me. I find that especially when I sit in the wings SL, the basses just come right through any sort of over-ears I have tried. And that really skews the music in a way I can't stand. I'd love to have a "broom closet" in most of my venues but it is just never gonna be.

Etymotic Research ER4SR Studio Reference Earphones | Sweetwater

With custom molds. Nothing like them in my experience for the times I need to be on-stage. Not sayin' the Etys are the best, and don't want to start an in-ear flame war but they work well for me. Those David Clarke "Mickey Mouse" phones can not sound flat. Sorry.

D.
To my ears, the David Clark’s sound very flat except for being a little weak in the low bass.
One other useful feature-individual volume controls for each ear.
Old 6 days ago
  #13
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
To my ears, the David Clark’s sound very flat except for being a little weak in the low bass.
One other useful feature-individual volume controls for each ear.
Okay, never heard them so I should not have made that comment. The design doesn't seem to be one that would lend itself to an accurate reproduction but I have been wrong before.

D.
Old 6 days ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

does your headphone amp provide sufficient level without sounding harsh? i've come across many headphone amps (built into mixing desks) that either are not powerful enough or if they go loud, they are otherwise not much helpful. so if i'm forced to sit in the same room as the orchestra (or if i mix monitors on loud stages), i sometimes carry an spl phonitor mini headphone amp and use the somewhat mid-heavy sennheisers hd-25 instead of otherwise prefered beyer headphones. the spl has some additional benefits besides providing enough power for most headphones...
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