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What is the next BIG thing in remote recording? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 12th June 2018
  #1
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
What is the next BIG thing in remote recording?

Just curious as to what others think?

Big steps so far, IMHO.

Analog to digital transition.

Addition of video to remote recordings.

Smaller and lighter remote recording setups.

Digital snakes.

Digital microphones.

Cheaper startup cost.

Free editing software.

Free plugins.

DIY recording by performers.

Large remote trucks slowly going away.

More and more institutions having in house setups for recording both audio and video.

Tablets and cellphones doing on-location recordings.

The death of the CD and DVD and posting everything to the WWW.

More to be added....
Old 12th June 2018
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
J

The death of the CD and DVD and posting everything to the WWW.
This is a big one, at least for musicians. We recorded a CD a few years back, and after the initial flurry of sales it's clear our only remaining sales will happen at gigs. All of our stuff is online as well through the usual venues such as Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, Deezer, Google Play, Youtube, and all of that together generates about 5 cents per month in revenue.

Video is a requirement now; for many festivals and other opportunities we are now asked to provide a video. Doing your own video requires a lot of investment up front and adds a huge layer of complication and a lot of training to get to a professional level, so this is an area where there's still likely to be demand for professionals for quite some time.

What's the next big change? I have no idea. I do think, though, that there will always be a niche market for high-quality professional recordings.
Old 12th June 2018
  #3
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Next big change will be we'll all get paid fairly ! Musicians included !
Yes !
Old 12th June 2018
  #4
Gear Head
 

Tape!!! But seriously, this relates to an idea I have been pondering lately. How is AI going to affect music/recording etc. Izotope began integrating AI and machine learning into RX6 then into Neutron. It is all still new but I wonder which directions this will go. People in tech seem to think that AI is going to impact every industry just as the internet did. I wonder...
Old 12th June 2018
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issadore View Post
How is AI going to affect music/recording etc. Izotope began integrating AI and machine learning into RX6 then into Neutron. It is all still new but I wonder which directions this will go. People in tech seem to think that AI is going to impact every industry just as the internet did. I wonder...
Now that you bring it up, I do think this will be the next big thing. It's already becoming a factor in photography; a couple of the post-processing apps I use for photography use AI and they do a surprisingly good job, and the newish Google Clips camera uses AI.

I could see the day (maybe it's already arrived) when someone could say to their computer, "here are my tracks, make them sound like this example album."
Old 12th June 2018
  #6
I went to a Bad Company show at the local Del Mar San Diego County fair. With the dinner ticket I got a free CD of the show. When I walked out it was given to me, mixed, pressed and done.
Old 12th June 2018
  #7
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Wireless Dante mics. I want to be able to set up a WAP, connect all mics to it, then hit record. Not necessarily only remote, but sure would be sweet in the field. As much as cable wrapping is a zen moment for me, I wouldn't miss it.

Yeah yeah, go ahead and worry about wireless interference, bandwidth (must be lossless), etc. There's gotta be a solution.
Old 12th June 2018
  #8
RPC
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Wireless low latency servo control of pan/tilt/zoom. (I don't care if the video is getting stored on camera.) The downside of remote control vs. a cameraperson is the jerky linear transitions - if I could run a camera remotely with that "manual touch" it would open up a significant market.
Old 12th June 2018
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
Wireless Dante mics. I want to be able to set up a WAP, connect all mics to it, then hit record. Not necessarily only remote, but sure would be sweet in the field. As much as cable wrapping is a zen moment for me, I wouldn't miss it.

Yeah yeah, go ahead and worry about wireless interference, bandwidth (must be lossless), etc. There's gotta be a solution.
There is... it's called wireless mics with Dante built into the receiver. Available now. Built with that architecture (separate receiver) for a reason.
Old 13th June 2018
  #10
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tourtelot's Avatar
Not really clear on what you mean by Dante wireless and as Tim said, there are Dante wireless receivers from most of the major players.

I have had years and years (and years. Remember HME wireless. Or Cerwin Vega?) of time with wireless and I have never heard a wireless that sounds nearly as good as a hard wire. Even with the very best.

I'll continue to zen out and wrap up mic cable. It could be worse. It could be 4/0 AC feeder. 208VAC wireless? Now THAT would be the trick.

D.
Old 13th June 2018
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
Wireless low latency servo control of pan/tilt/zoom. (I don't care if the video is getting stored on camera.) The downside of remote control vs. a cameraperson is the jerky linear transitions - if I could run a camera remotely with that "manual touch" it would open up a significant market.
There's an android app to remotely control the Zhiyun Smooth Q gimbal for action cameras and it does a pretty amazing job of smoothing out camera transitions. There's probably some remote control app for the gimbals for larger cameras.

And.. wireless remote control might be the area where there might be some useful developments for video and audio.
Old 13th June 2018
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

I'm talking about a digital mic such as Solution D, taking those bits and connecting them wirelessly to a Dante network. Then being able to do that 24x or 48x (arbitrary number of mics) to a small wireless access point, which connects to a computer or computers for recording.

I'm not talking about a 3U 8-channel receiver such as Senn Digital 9000. This would be much more elegant.
Old 13th June 2018
  #13
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Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issadore View Post
Tape!!! But seriously, this relates to an idea I have been pondering lately. How is AI going to affect music/recording etc. Izotope began integrating AI and machine learning into RX6 then into Neutron. It is all still new but I wonder which directions this will go. People in tech seem to think that AI is going to impact every industry just as the internet did. I wonder...
Precisely. I’m thinking that it’s not too far away where some sort of system comprises a half dozen small (wireless) mics that are placed in and around a group and the machine does the settings, mix and master. Mono, stereo, 5.1, Atmos etc.

Tell the box it’s classical, folk, jazz, rockabilly etc etc and it’ll do the job. And as others have pointed out, sales are so poor anyway, it’ll simply be for advertising on the ‘net so played through earbuds at best.

Given what IRCAM have done with their research and products like SPAT etc there are going to be a few surprises coming.

Haigbabe
Old 13th June 2018
  #14
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
I'm talking about a digital mic such as Solution D, taking those bits and connecting them wirelessly to a Dante network.
So far the success of digital microphones is very limited and there is a reason for it. So I think also in the near future digital mics will be a niche product.


Quote:
taking those bits and connecting them wirelessly to a Dante network.
Recording via Dante or other audio networks is very attractive. But wireless I wouldn´t trust so far. A network cable is light and easy to use compared to heavy snakes and more robust than any WLAN.
Old 13th June 2018
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
So far the success of digital microphones is very limited and there is a reason for it. So I think also in the near future digital mics will be a niche product.
...and would you say is the reason?
Old 13th June 2018
  #16
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It took 80 years but we have come full circle: Media, radio, delivered a sample of Gene Autry, The Chuck Wagon Gang, The Sons of the Pioneers and ticket buyers showed up at a given venue to see and support an act they had "adopted" from radio performance. Honest web video, more live than produced, with well done audio that displays the acts ability to connect with an audience is todays enticement for fans to fork over $50., more of less, to see the talent displayed in their video.
There are many options for digital down loads of recorded audio that has performed the "last rites" over CD sales. Just as it was 80 years ago todays musicians rely on touring for cash flow: The symbiotic gate keeping relationship between labels and top 40 radio selling electronic manufactured performances is no longer a viable business plan. They are thankfully the big losers in the subject paradigm shift.
Americans love music, they always have and always will, however the ability to forecast periodic changes in taste is above most of our pay grades. The most important quality we must pursue is identifying the obvious opportunities created when these changes occur.
Hugh

Last edited by hughshouse; 14th June 2018 at 12:36 PM..
Old 13th June 2018
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
I'm talking about a digital mic such as Solution D, taking those bits and connecting them wirelessly to a Dante network. Then being able to do that 24x or 48x (arbitrary number of mics) to a small wireless access point, which connects to a computer or computers for recording.

I'm not talking about a 3U 8-channel receiver such as Senn Digital 9000. This would be much more elegant.
The issue is that wireless mics using current radio tech are just too... lossy for audio over IP.

The beauty of the current systems with dedicated receivers is that they put a lot of processing into compensating for the weaknesses of radio to create a good audio signal BEFORE putting it on a reliable IP network.

Now....if we see increases in reliability in wireless networking, then I'm sure the audio-over-IP solutions will take advantage of it.
Old 14th June 2018
  #18
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...and would you say is the reason?
The reason for the non existing success of digital microphones is.

- you need a interface to sync several microphones. There are 2 modes of sync but in each you need something like in the Solution D byNeumann.

- the built in converter has to offer a high dynamic range. Neumann or others do that via feeding 2 or more converters with different gain.

-
development of digital audio moves faster than the analog part of the microphone. You can use a 30 years old mic or even older anytime. But could you imagine to use a 30 years old converter?

-
sound and emotional factors
People want to combine their microphones with different preamps like a more neutral preamp with detail for a classical piano recording and a more colored preamp for may be a vocal recording - both with the same microphone.

I think besides the first technical points the last point is a important one - emotions.
Old 14th June 2018
  #19
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
The reason for the non existing success of digital microphones is.

- you need a interface to sync several microphones. There are 2 modes of sync but in each you need something like in the Solution D byNeumann.

- the built in converter has to offer a high dynamic range. Neumann or others do that via feeding 2 or more converters with different gain.

-
development of digital audio moves faster than the analog part of the microphone. You can use a 30 years old mic or even older anytime. But could you imagine to use a 30 years old converter?

-
sound and emotional factors
People want to combine their microphones with different preamps like a more neutral preamp with detail for a classical piano recording and a more colored preamp for may be a vocal recording - both with the same microphone.

I think besides the first technical points the last point is a important one - emotions.
Really good points here. One of the things I hate about the digital world is how quality gear becomes obsolete. Though I agree that there can be some benefits to digital microphones I think that the microphone is one of those things that is better left analog. IMHO
Old 14th June 2018
  #20
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tourtelot's Avatar
Newcomer advise. Always buy mics. Never buy digital gear. One will retain its value. One won't.

D.
Old 15th June 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Newcomer advise. Always buy mics. Never buy digital gear. One will retain its value. One won't.

D.
Transducers (mics and speakers) are also the only things that software can't replace.
Old 15th June 2018
  #22
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i'm more interested in the value gear has for my daily work - and that's mostly digital these days, including some 'digital' mics.

(i still have my mci jh500/studer a800/neumann u67/la2a's etc, but my digital gear - some of which i've been using for 20 years now - serves my pretty well, mostly better than my old analog gear actually: wouldn't wanna go back to tape delay...)
Old 15th June 2018
  #23
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Total agreement here pursuant to transducers: what about pre amps and op amps?
Hugh
Old 18th June 2018
  #24
LX3
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The biggest change in remote recording that I'm seeing, after 15 years of doing this, isn't about developments in gear or technology at all. Those are kind of irrelevant compared to the sudden fall in demand for dedicated live audio recording services that I'm seeing. I've survived the industry changes that may have impacted smaller operators in the last few years, but I get the impression that a bit of a perfect storm has arrived in the last 12 months.

1) Major artist crews now happy to do their own multitrack recording, thanks to improvements in digital desks, more powerful cooler-running laptops, and greater confidence in and understanding of the technology. Many band engineers now multitrack every gig as a matter of course. The attitude I'm feeling from many crews and tour managers is "Why do we need an outside person to come in and interfere in our show when we could do it ourselves?"

(PS several years ago, an internationally-successful UK artist had a very expensive live DVD shoot planned - the only one they've ever done - and hired in a live recording company to multitrack it (not my company I should add, though I was asked, but then their management picked these other guys). The live recording company totally botched it, and had no useable audio to give them. Fortunately the FOH engineer was running his laptop as usual, and multitracked the gig as he always does, and those were the multitracks used to mix the DVD. So I understand the lack of trust I sometimes encounter when I arrive to work with a sound crew I've not met before.)

2) An apparent tail-off of interest in live concert DVDs/Blu-rays. Not sure if this is driven by consumers who expect to find everything on Netflix/YouTube, or artists who aren't getting the return on the product that they would like. Or just an overall, "Meh, why bother?" attitude.

So, combining 1 and 2 you get: "If we're just going to put a live version of our new single on YouTube, why pay someone else to record the whole show when we could do it ourselves?"

3) MTV broadcasting/bank-rolling less and less live music, especially it seems here in the UK. Also, national broadcaster Channel 4 pretty much ceasing showing late-night music programming. Which in part has led to:

4) Video production companies folding, particularly in the middle of the sector. If you're doing large festivals for TV you're probably ok, and if you're scratching about shooting unsigned bands on four Canon 5Ds nothing much has changed, but in-between those two extremes I get the impression it's become impossible to survive by specialising in live music shoots. With one exception, every video production client I had in the last ten years has either gone out of business or diversified into non music-related areas.

5) The fall in CD sales impacting new and mid-range artists' income (I'm sure Beyonce and Taylor Swift do fine out of Spotify, but everyone else?) meaning they have no funds to spend on live recording/video. Projects have to either cost next to nothing, or they don't bother at all. The only life seems to be where labels are injecting money to try and break new artists. There was even a time when, if you bought an artist's album on CD, you got a bonus live DVD in the package, which you didn't have access to via streaming. But that idea seems to have curled up and died for some reason - presumably folks are getting so used to streaming albums now, an exclusive live DVD isn't enough to make them buy a CD again, so the sales aren't there to justify the expense.

Business hasn't totally ground to a halt for me, but I am having to diversify to keep my head above water, and I can see my focus moving to other audio production endeavours in the near future (hopefully still music, but not so much "live recording in venue" music - though obviously I'm happy to keep accepting that work when it comes to me).

I'm very glad I started recording professionally when I did, because I think if I tried to do the same thing now the business would not be viable.
Old 18th June 2018
  #25
Walking out of a concert with a finished CD recording of it is the present, not the future. That adds value to the concert experience as you have a full memory of it given to you to enjoy over and over again.

If more acts did this I would attend more shows. What say you?
Old 18th June 2018
  #26
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I think I just took over a job from someone that offers this service.
Because the end result is never ever good enough.

My deadline is one week to 4 weeks later.

That is the next BIG thing. Return to reality.
Old 18th June 2018
  #27
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
I worked for a sound company that did this. It was a MAJOR PITA. We had a on CD printer for the artwork, we did not use a cover just the printed CD, there was always a rush that put way too much pressure on the person doing the production. He was literally up against a wall all the time. The concert would end and then 24 CDs at a time were being made of the concert at 52X. The person edited the first part of the concert at intermission but did not have time to do much to the last part of the concert except to drop in markers. He used WaveLab's montage for the editing together of the parts. Honestly it sounded like a great idea to management but to get it all to work was not easy. The guy doing the production came down with an ulcer from all the pressure. NOT FUN!

I would not want to get into this today. FWIW
Old 18th June 2018
  #28
So it's work? Good. They get paid well for it and most enjoy having a job in the biz if they can find one. That probably beats sitting around in a small town looking for location work. I've gotten some good stuff this way, well mixed and ready for you on the way out the door, not a few copies but 100's.

For the audience, it's icing on the cake and they like it, a lot. So do I. The customer is always right even when they are wrong, if you want to get paid.
Old 18th June 2018
  #29
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How can you be an advocate of highend upgrades and instant gratification at the same time ?

Do you honestly think making a rush job monitoring in the toilets, but recording on 100k preamps, and handing over a cd five minutes after the concert is any better than recording the gig on a behringer and taking a couple of days to mix ?

If this is not tongue in cheak, coming from you, that means the next big thing is already here.

And it is not looking good.
Old 18th June 2018
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post

4) Video production companies folding, particularly in the middle of the sector. If you're doing large festivals for TV you're probably ok, and if you're scratching about shooting unsigned bands on four Canon 5Ds nothing much has changed, but in-between those two extremes I get the impression it's become impossible to survive by specialising in live music shoots. With one exception, every video production client I had in the last ten years has either gone out of business or diversified into non music-related areas.
I think this is relates to what Thomas has seen decline in his business as well. For the high end hiring pros with pro gear at pro rates is business as usual. For everyone else, the return is probably not worth the investment.

Youtube is doing to "pro" video and DVD/BD what iPods/MP3 did to CD, reducing the quality in the name of portability to the "that's just bad enough" mark.
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