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What is the next BIG thing in remote recording? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 18th June 2018
  #31
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Imo the next big thing is in your signature ?
Old 18th June 2018
  #32
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Walking out of a concert with a finished CD recording of it is the present, not the future. That adds value to the concert experience as you have a full memory of it given to you to enjoy over and over again.

If more acts did this I would attend more shows. What say you?
I say my cognitive dissonance is acting up again. The general consensus I've read and heard is that CDs are on the way out. Quickly. Why would you want a CD when you can have a download? If you have the instructions printed on the ticket, or a card given when the ticket is taken/punched/torn, you don't even slow the crowd down as it's leaving the venue.

Give the guys an hour after the show to edit it and post it; you can have it when you walk back into your place after you get home from the show. That extra hour or so will markedly improve the product, and you won't have to deal with a physical CD.

It's still live TV/audio, edited on the fly as the show progresses, but with better cuts and transitions, and proper chapter markers and even a menu system maybe. IOW, the mix and multi-cam edit are done on the fly, the extra hour is to polish the rough edges before it's released.

Will it be studio quality? Heck no. But it can be pretty good. Good enough that those attending can fill in the blanks with their memories. Which is what makes it a good souvenir, yes?
Old 18th June 2018
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Walking out of a concert with a finished CD recording of it is the present, not the future. That adds value to the concert experience as you have a full memory of it given to you to enjoy over and over again.

If more acts did this I would attend more shows. What say you?
quite the opposite for me: getting a cd/usb/free download of a concert i went to and hopefully enjoyed devalutes the experience i had - and while it's fun to get a good mix that can get distributed in (almost) realtime in a nicely equipped broadcast truck, it's a pita to do under resticted conditions.

besides, bands/managements want to have lots of control over their products (same as record companies years before) so they do the job without (much) outside help: around here, there are just very few festivals with large sponsors that can afford the luxury of outside production - and they then are allowed to mix just very few shows for legal reasons!

so not really a business i can recommend getting into...
Old 18th June 2018
  #34
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Concert recording by an outside recording engineer (the people on this forum) is changing. Digital consoles now let one record the whole show on a thumb drive. Churches and schools are putting in recording facilities for both audio and video.

The one thing we have to sell is our expertise.

Just having lots of equipment is not going to make things that were recorded sound good, it is an experienced pair of ears and someone who knows what they are doing that will make the concert sound GREAT. The problem is with the rise of the internet and sites like YouTube the need for a quality recording is going away. "Just good enough" is what I have heard people say about what they put up on YouTube.

We recently did a high quality video recording of a high school orchestra concert. Instead of putting up the high quality recording of the concert someone put up a badly done, hand held camera shoot on YouTube that looked terrible. They titled it "High School Spring Concert 2018". We were acknowledged from the stage for doing the video and now people will look at the lousy video and think that it was what we did. Anyone can put up anything on YouTube and call it a pro recording.

Maybe things will come full circle and we will again be asked to provide high quality recording for concerts, but I kinda doubt it.

FWIW
Old 18th June 2018
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I say my cognitive dissonance is acting up again. The general consensus I've read and heard is that CDs are on the way out. Quickly. Why would you want a CD when you can have a download? If you have the instructions printed on the ticket, or a card given when the ticket is taken/punched/torn, you don't even slow the crowd down as it's leaving the venue.

Give the guys an hour after the show to edit it and post it; you can have it when you walk back into your place after you get home from the show. That extra hour or so will markedly improve the product, and you won't have to deal with a physical CD.

It's still live TV/audio, edited on the fly as the show progresses, but with better cuts and transitions, and proper chapter markers and even a menu system maybe. IOW, the mix and multi-cam edit are done on the fly, the extra hour is to polish the rough edges before it's released.

Will it be studio quality? Heck no. But it can be pretty good. Good enough that those attending can fill in the blanks with their memories. Which is what makes it a good souvenir, yes?
And even better, you can have the "mixed during the show" version one hour post show, and (if desired) a "better" mix a week later.
Old 18th June 2018
  #36
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Audio transport over networks, booth wired and wireless. It’s already here, but there’s lots of room for improvement and innovation. Incidentally, Metric Halo just released 3D, which is a whole new network topology.
Old 19th June 2018
  #37
What I see is the processor power in recprders getting more and more powerful, which will allow more and more sophisticated alogirthms to be run in real time while recording as well.

For instance we have seen automixers go from mythical, to rack mounted, to integrated in to big mixing consoles, to integrated into small portable baggable recorders such as the Sound Devices 688, then moving down the price chain to even a 633 being capable of automixing, and now even the new Zoom F8n is going to do automixing for less than a thousand bucks! (plus everything else the F8n does)

This won't be limited to just automixing. For instance live noise reduction is limited to the dedicated and expensive Cedar DNS2, but I bet with time we will see this integrated into more and more recorders as well. As just another one of the many more features they'll be capable of doing.
Old 19th June 2018
  #38
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Thanks for all the GREAT replies.
Old 19th June 2018
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
How can you be an advocate of highend upgrades and instant gratification at the same time ?

Do you honestly think making a rush job monitoring in the toilets, but recording on 100k preamps, and handing over a cd five minutes after the concert is any better than recording the gig on a behringer and taking a couple of days to mix ?

If this is not tongue in cheak, coming from you, that means the next big thing is already here.

And it is not looking good.
The clients love it. Maybe you don't. They pay the bills. You don't.
Old 19th June 2018
  #40
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Plush's Avatar
The next big thing is great assistants and producers who allow the recording job to go smoothly. A well marked score for editing makes everything sound better in the end.

A great set of assistants impresses the client because all problems / challenges
are attended to promptly without much interruption of the recording.

Great assistants ease set up and tear down and allow you to clearoutinaflash.

You have to spend money on great people.
Old 19th June 2018
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
You have to spend money on great people.
As it has always been. Tech is superficial to the main event.
Old 20th June 2018
  #42
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
The next big thing is great assistants and producers who allow the recording job to go smoothly. A well marked score for editing makes everything sound better in the end.

A great set of assistants impresses the client because all problems / challenges
are attended to promptly without much interruption of the recording.

Great assistants ease set up and tear down and allow you to clearoutinaflash.

You have to spend money on great people.
If you don't have GREAT people you don't get a GREAT recordings.

I worked with a producer who was amazing in getting the best out of the performers as well as the recording crew. I also worked with a producer who did nothing except get everyone on edge. At one point she told the 1st violinist he should spend more time practicing and it was on the squawk box in front of all the other players in the ensemble. She also kept reaching over to "adjust levels" on my console. The recording session was so tension filed I went home and cried, not something I normally do. So YES working with top people is essential.
Old 22nd June 2018
  #43
Gear Nut
That would have been a good reason for the musicians and you, as the engineer, to have walked out and to have told where she can stick her ...
Old 23rd June 2018
  #44
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
That would have been a good reason for the musicians and you, as the engineer, to have walked out and to have told where she can stick her ...
The quartet I was recording hired her. She is a well known classical producer and recording engineer and usually does both at the same time. I have never worked with anyone like her. The recording was done in a large concert hall. She "corrected" my mic placement after I had done the setup and without listening to how the quartet sounded in the control room. After a few minutes of listening in the control room she told me that the setup was not right. I told her that she was the one who did the rearranging and she got upset. I went back in and put the mics where I had them and she seemed pleased. When we took breaks everyone normally hung out in the lounge. She went off to "where ever" and never sat down with the quartet. She was quick to hit the talk back button if she did not like something and in some cases ruined a take that was OK except for what she did not like. At one point she said that the quartet was playing the piece at the wrong tempo and referred them to the score. They said they liked it a a slightly faster tempo and she said "please play it the way it was written". I listened to the final edited version and she did a very nice job on the editing. The quartet was a group I did recordings for all the time and they said they would never hire her again. I agreed. FWIW
Old 23rd June 2018
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
What I see is the processor power in recprders getting more and more powerful, which will allow more and more sophisticated alogirthms to be run in real time while recording as well.

For instance we have seen automixers go from mythical, to rack mounted, to integrated in to big mixing consoles, to integrated into small portable baggable recorders such as the Sound Devices 688, then moving down the price chain to even a 633 being capable of automixing, and now even the new Zoom F8n is going to do automixing for less than a thousand bucks! (plus everything else the F8n does)

This won't be limited to just automixing. For instance live noise reduction is limited to the dedicated and expensive Cedar DNS2, but I bet with time we will see this integrated into more and more recorders as well. As just another one of the many more features they'll be capable of doing.
Precisely. There are mixing consoles that duck for ‘priority’ channels/mics/voices. There is online mastering using algorithms, some of these have been pretty impressive. Some broadcast studios are fully automated using current tools, I’m sure ‘automixing’ and the like are not far away.

Haigbabe
Old 23rd June 2018
  #46
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
Wireless low latency servo control of pan/tilt/zoom. (I don't care if the video is getting stored on camera.) The downside of remote control vs. a cameraperson is the jerky linear transitions - if I could run a camera remotely with that "manual touch" it would open up a significant market.
I'm about to pull the trigger on buying a Mevo camera. It's that concept without the mechanics of PTZ. It uses a 4k sensor that is 'programatically cropped' into HD. There's motion tracking and pre-programming of the scenes and digital zoom for what you want from that fixed position.

The resultant video can be stored on an SD card or real-time streamed. I'm not yet sure if both are concurrently possible, but this seems to solve a zillion concert recording problems for me, so I'm getting serious about it.

[ Mevo Plus | Livestream Like a Pro ]

If I get three of these things coordinated in strategic spots, supplemented by a couple of my fixed-function video cameras, the post production (when blended with the separately recorded multi-track) could be very slick, and far beyond what a typical two-person team could otherwise accomplish.

Last edited by MediaGary; 23rd June 2018 at 06:17 PM..
Old 23rd June 2018
  #47
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher_lover View Post
That would have been a good reason for the musicians and you, as the engineer, to have walked out and to have told where she can stick her ...
So, so tough to walk out in the middle. After all the WORK is done. I have done it but more often than not, I stick it through and then never work for that person again. Mostly it's because they never ask; no matter whose "fault" a tense session is, it's tense for everybody. The thing about those type of folks, EVERY session is tense and they never get the chance to work with the same people again. They just find themselves in a same situation with many different sets of artists and technicians. And never insightful enough to realize what the common problem is.

That being said, never enough praise for the producers that all of us want to work with over and over because of what great people they are. Too bad they don't get ALL the jobs.

D.
Old 23rd June 2018
  #48
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
So, so tough to walk out in the middle. After all the WORK is done. I have done it but more often than not, I stick it through and then never work for that person again. Mostly it's because they never ask; no matter whose "fault" a tense session is, it's tense for everybody. The thing about those type of folks, EVERY session is tense and they never get the chance to work with the same people again. They just find themselves in a same situation with many different sets of artists and technicians. And never insightful enough to realize what the common problem is.

That being said, never enough praise for the producers that all of us want to work with over and over because of what great people they are. Too bad they don't get ALL the jobs.

D.
I worked with a GREAT producer, Andor Toth, Jr., and he was the consummate professional and GREAT person to work with. Unfortunately he succumbed to cancer in mid-life. I did numerous CDs with him and always enjoyed the experience. He had "musician's ears" and played the cello professionally. We were a GREAT team. I will always miss him.

There are GREAT people and then there are the really GREAT!!! people. Andy was one of the best.
Old 24th June 2018
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe View Post
Precisely. There are mixing consoles that duck for ‘priority’ channels/mics/voices. There is online mastering using algorithms, some of these have been pretty impressive. Some broadcast studios are fully automated using current tools, I’m sure ‘automixing’ and the like are not far away.

Haigbabe
It is already here, with the likes of Sound Devices 688/633/788/etc having this, and now even the sub $1K Zoom F8n has automixing built in!

The question for me is now "what is next?" that will be incorporated into portable sound recorders? I reckon noise reduction like the CEDAR DNS2 does, would still be a few more years away though I reckon, but it will happen.
Old 24th June 2018
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
I'm about to pull the trigger on buying a Mevo camera. It's that concept without the mechanics of PTZ. It uses a 4k sensor that is 'programatically cropped' into HD. There's motion tracking and pre-programming of the scenes and digital zoom for what you want from that fixed position.

The resultant video can be stored on an SD card or real-time streamed. I'm not yet sure if both are concurrently possible, but this seems to solve a zillion concert recording problems for me, so I'm getting serious about it.

[ Mevo Plus | Livestream Like a Pro ]

If I get three of these things coordinated in strategic spots, supplemented by a couple of my fixed-function video cameras, the post production (when blended with the separately recorded multi-track) could be very slick, and far beyond what a typical two-person team could otherwise accomplish.
The new Z Cam E2 is meant to have some AI computing smarts built into it.

Professional 4K Cinematic Camera | Z CAM E2

Z Cam E2 Best Value 4k Slow Motion Cam? - Hi Speed Cameras
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