The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Stero pair to record classical music
Old 15th April 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Stero pair to record classical music

Hello,
It's frustrating to choose a pair of good mics to record classical music. It's more simple to choose a good recorder, Sound devices for example is certainly very good, but there are a lot of mics each with its own characteristics.
For example:
- Beyerdynamics 930: are they too smooth?
- Oktava 012: but since I live in Europe I cannot buy the mod version, how compare the unmodded version to other top level mic?
- Line Audio CM3: but they are wide cardiod, so maybe they are not the best option for a stereo recording

Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations? I want to invest in a good pair that can last for years
Old 15th April 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Hello,
It's frustrating to choose a pair of good mics to record classical music. It's more simple to choose a good recorder, Sound devices for example is certainly very good, but there are a lot of mics each with its own characteristics.
For example:
- Beyerdynamics 930: are they too smooth?
- Oktava 012: but since I live in Europe I cannot buy the mod version, how compare the unmodded version to other top level mic?
- Line Audio CM3: but they are wide cardiod, so maybe they are not the best option for a stereo recording

Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations? I want to invest in a good pair that can last for years
How one perceives what is a good sounding microphone is ultimately in the ears of the person listening to the recording.

The microphones you have listed are all good ones.

I can add

B&K 4006

AT 4060

AT 4015

RODE NT-4

and any of these suggestions. microphones for recording classical music - Google Search

Best of luck!
Old 15th April 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations?
Really, no. Because acoustic environments, from school auditoriums to purpose built performance halls to old stone churches, differ widely from each other. This calls for different mics and different mic techniques.

Secondly, small ensembles tend to call for different mics and techniques compared to large ensembles.

So no. There is practically no "microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations".
Old 15th April 2018
  #4
CRK
Here for the gear
I have found that the Neumann KM 84i can work well as a pair. Yet now a days I use a pair of Sanken CO-100Ks which I really enjoy for classical recording. However, there so many options that you may want to research a bit more, especially if you have a budget for how much you can spend on a pair of microphones. I am slightly confused since I am not sure if you want to record solo classical pieces, or something more like an entire orchestra. Either way the Neumann KM 84i is far more versatile (I have used them on classical recordings, various solo acoustic instruments, drums, vocals, and even guitar amps), but the Sanken CO-100K will probably due a better job when recording a large orchestra. Obviously this is all just my personal experience. I'm sure if you ask one-hundred other people, you will get two-hundred different answers.
Old 15th April 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations? I want to invest in a good pair that can last for years
Really, I can't imagine you could make such a statement about a shirt.

D.
Old 15th April 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Old 15th April 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
I imagine you can record pretty much anything with an ORTF pair of Schoeps CMC64s.
Old 15th April 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Don't know about M50s on toms. I'd be terrified.

D.

BTW, if I had 50k smackers just hangin' around, I'd be glad to have these in the closet. Drool.
Old 15th April 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
I imagine you can record pretty much anything with an ORTF pair of Schoeps CMC64s.
Yeah, or DPA 4011s or even Sennheiser MKH40. Dessert island mics for sure.

Oktavas? Probably not.
Old 15th April 2018
  #10
I too could happily record just about anything with a pair of Schoeps CMC6, DPA 4006 or 4011, or Sennheiser MKH 8040s/40s.
Old 16th April 2018
  #11
An ortf pair of schoeps mk4, sennheiser mkh 8040, neumann km 140, dpa 4011, will last you your entire career. The beyer is pretty good, I would stay away from octava and my opinions on line audio are mixed. Many jobs may call for omnis for the best sound, but cardioids will work just fine in good rooms, bad rooms, big ensembles and small.

Last edited by rumleymusic; 17th April 2018 at 04:31 AM..
Old 16th April 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
The beher is pretty good
Do you mean the Beyerdynamic?
Old 16th April 2018
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Do you mean the Beyerdynamic?
Gotta love autocorrect....

Yes.
Old 16th April 2018
  #14
RPC
Gear Addict
 

Get two Sennheiser MKH800 Twins. You'll need a four channel recorder. Then you can do it all: Blumlein, ORTF, spaced omni, even a matrixed surround mix for video. There are other microphones that do one of those things better, but if you want to carry as little as possible, these are a godsend.
Old 16th April 2018
  #15
Quote:
Get two Sennheiser MKH800 Twins.
They're cheap too!

If the budget is about $1000. Then the Beyerdynamic is my suggestion. Not quite as refined as the top tier mics, but still very good.
Old 16th April 2018
  #16
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Yeah and those pesky M50s are only omni.

D.

Two further questions not really on-topic but:

1) why do I lust for something that I can't afford?

and

2) why do I lust for something that would, in truth, get so little regular use?

A Porsche 356 is like that too.

Ah sweet mystery of life at last I've found you.
Old 16th April 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I record anything with two Pearl CC22 cardioid mics.
Old 16th April 2018
  #18
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Yeah, or DPA 4011s or even Sennheiser MKH40. Dessert island mics for sure.

Oktavas? Probably not.
The Sennheiser MKH 20/30/40 range were my "go to" mics for years - if I was a bit strapped then either an ORTF pair of MKH 40 or an MS rig of MKH 40/30 would do just about anything.

Neutral and uncoloured they will do just about anything -and for many years were exactly what I used.
Old 16th April 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
To be sure, the intent of that post was not to denigrate the the venerable MKH40 even as poor writing made it seem that way.

Certainly in the same league as the others and somewhat like vanilla and chocolate, I like all sorts. (I don't like strawberry.)

D.
Old 16th April 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
Sennheiser MKH 30 pair has done me well in all situations known to mobile recordists.....
What more can an old codger say.
Roger
Old 16th April 2018
  #21
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
To be sure, the intent of that post was not to denigrate the the venerable MKH40 even as poor writing made it seem that way.
I didn't read it that way - I understood you were recommending the DPA and the MKH - and I agree.
Old 17th April 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Two Schoeps with MK5 caps are very versatile. Great Schoeps sound and the choice of cardiod or omni patterns.

-Tom
Old 18th April 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
 
surflounge's Avatar
Spaced pair of Neumann KM133D microphones into digital recorder
or
Spaced pair of Josephson C617 Set matched pair into analog recorder
or
Schoeps ORTF with Nagra 7

Last edited by surflounge; 19th April 2018 at 07:07 AM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #24
The choices are few -- if price is no object!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Hello,
It's frustrating to choose a pair of good mics to record classical music.
<snip!>
Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations? I want to invest in a good pair that can last for years
When you get your first pair of really good mics, you will use them for everything... until you get your second pair of really good mics. Then you will discover that one pair is better than the other for certain situations, and that the reverse is also true. However, if the first pair wasn't really that good, then they'll gather dust in your mic locker as soon as you get something better.

Quality microphones do last for years. The real question is, "Which microphones will have lasting utility as my collection of good mics expands?" There is a pretty short list of SDC's which you will never outgrow. Listed in order of increasing price, these are:

Sennheiser MKH series
Schoeps Collette series
DPA 40xx series

I have all three brands in my inventory, and I don't think any particular pair makes the others superfluous. Unfortunately, these are all very expensive mics, although Sennheiser MKH 80xx pairs are significantly cheaper than the Schoeps and DPA alternatives.

There exist some excellent choices below that price level, and I think you could probably be very happy with a pair of "tier two" SDC's from the list below.

Audio Technica AT 405x
Neumann KM18x series
MBHO KA series
Microtech Gefell m30x and 29x

Unfortunately, I can't compare everything in this list from personal experience. Frankly, there's little point in my owning most of these mics when I already own many examples from the "tier one".

I will also say that this second list should probably be a bit longer, because there have been some interesting recent introductions since many boutique suppliers realized how easy it was to access far east manufacturing plants. Luckily, this is Gearslutz, and there are many other folks here who can advise on some of these alternatives. But I think only a few of those sourcing Chinese capsules are really approaching "tier two" level with any consistency, so buyer beware.

I've also left out some other noteworthy non-Asian manufacturers simply because I think SDC's are not the best thing they do. That list would include Blue, Rode and alas, Josephson (who no longer make their fine Series 6 pencil mics*).

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

* Josephson do offer a pair of SDC omni's based on Gefell metal diaphragm capsules. If omni pattern suits your needs, these are tier one microphones.
Old 20th April 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
There exist some excellent choices below that price level, and I think you could probably be very happy with a pair of "tier two" SDC's from the list below.

Audio Technica AT 405x
Neumann KM18x series
MBHO KA series
Microtech Gefell m30x and 29x
I don't agree that the Neumann KM1xx series is tier two. Definitely tier 1 small diaphram capsules and with judicious choice of signal conditioning after mic certainly match those in the tier 1 group above. The digital versions of this series are superb.
Old 20th April 2018
  #26
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
I know a number of large symphony orchestras who use km130s as mains for their house recordings. I know John willett uses the Neumann’s as his main omni mics for piano recordings. And while I have Schoeps mk2 and mk4 pairs, I often use km183s as piano mics - they are great mics. As I and others have stated many times, different mics excel at different tasks, and the key to making good recordings is knowings which mics to use for what situation. I always cringe when I hear someone talk about DPA mics being cold or harsh, or stating that neumann mics are brittle - those comments are simply ridiculous and make them sound like beginners who do not know how to use microphones in context.
Old 20th April 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
I don't agree that the Neumann KM1xx series is tier two. Definitely tier 1 small diaphram capsules and with judicious choice of signal conditioning after mic certainly match those in the tier 1 group above. The digital versions of this series are superb.
+1

Certainly the Neumann MK140 and all the 100 series are outstanding.
The successor KMA analog bodies with the current capsules are fantastic. Exhibiting that "Neumannsound" with great dignity.

KMD is incredible with the premier set up being the KMD133 omni with ball.
Old 20th April 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
When you get your first pair of really good mics, you will use them for everything... until you get your second pair of really good mics. Then you will discover that one pair is better than the other for certain situations, and that the reverse is also true. However, if the first pair wasn't really that good, then they'll gather dust in your mic locker as soon as you get something better.

Quality microphones do last for years. The real question is, "Which microphones will have lasting utility as my collection of good mics expands?" There is a pretty short list of SDC's which you will never outgrow. Listed in order of increasing price, these are:

Sennheiser MKH series
Schoeps Collette series
DPA 40xx series

I have all three brands in my inventory, and I don't think any particular pair makes the others superfluous. Unfortunately, these are all very expensive mics, although Sennheiser MKH 80xx pairs are significantly cheaper than the Schoeps and DPA alternatives.

There exist some excellent choices below that price level, and I think you could probably be very happy with a pair of "tier two" SDC's from the list below.

Audio Technica AT 405x
Neumann KM18x series
MBHO KA series
Microtech Gefell m30x and 29x

Unfortunately, I can't compare everything in this list from personal experience. Frankly, there's little point in my owning most of these mics when I already own many examples from the "tier one".

I will also say that this second list should probably be a bit longer, because there have been some interesting recent introductions since many boutique suppliers realized how easy it was to access far east manufacturing plants. Luckily, this is Gearslutz, and there are many other folks here who can advise on some of these alternatives. But I think only a few of those sourcing Chinese capsules are really approaching "tier two" level with any consistency, so buyer beware.

I've also left out some other noteworthy non-Asian manufacturers simply because I think SDC's are not the best thing they do. That list would include Blue, Rode and alas, Josephson (who no longer make their fine Series 6 pencil mics*).

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

* Josephson do offer a pair of SDC omni's based on Gefell metal diaphragm capsules. If omni pattern suits your needs, these are tier one microphones.

we may not all agree on your second tier, but more importantly, i think you missed to mention any ldc in the first tier.

and +1 for kmd! not too much a fan of the interface though...
Old 20th April 2018
  #29
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
I know John willett uses the Neumann’s as his main omni mics for piano recordings.
For solo piano I have the following omnis available:-
Gefell M 221
Sennheiser MKH 20
Sennheiser MKH 8020
Neumann KM-D series with a choice of KK183 (diffuse field) and KK 131 nearfield) heads.

I will use what is best at the time of recording.

Sometimes I have run two systems with the second pair as a back-up.

But please note that the Neumanns are the digital version, not the analogue.
Old 20th April 2018
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
we may not all agree on your second tier, but more importantly, i think you missed to mention any ldc in the first tier.

and +1 for kmd! not too much a fan of the interface though...
I think most of us avoid using LDC's for a main pair due to their poor off axis response and sluggish transient response by comparison, especially in semi coincident and spaced pair arrays. There are a couple good LDC stereo mics out there of course.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump