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Stero pair to record classical music Condenser Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #181
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefzapostUK View Post
The Sennheiser stereo solutions work OK for TV drama but are too comb-filtered for music.
What !

I don't find this true at all - the polar-patterns on the MKH 20/30/40 series are much better than most other mics and don't display MS comb filtering at all really.

I have been using the MKH 40/30 MS set-up for classical recording for over 30 years and they sound wonderful and I have never encountered any comb-filtering at all.

The only time comb-filtering would come into play was if you used an interference-tube microphone as the mid.
Old 1 week ago
  #182
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
What !
I have been using the MKH 40/30 MS set-up for classical recording for over 30 years and they sound wonderful and I have never encountered any comb-filtering at all.
I use a MKH 30 as Side with pretty much anything for Mid, Sennheiser or not. I give inter-capsule alignment my best effort when rigging, and do final line-up by ear in post using a delay plug-in. This should work fine unless you are getting very, very close to the players so that they subtend a large vertical angle. In that case, you might want to put the capsules side-by-side instead of top and bottom as we usually do.

David
Old 1 week ago
  #183
Lives for gear
Dear def let’s hear some of your files
Proof is in the pudding
I have used Pearls to
Roger
Old 1 week ago
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
Hello Luke,

I play a lot of things; music instruments, recording engineer, producer, mentor etc... One thing I never play is a hero. Once I know the proposed venue is not conducive to make good sounding recordings I say no to the project. That happened more times than I can remember. Think about it, it is not in anybody's interests to go ahead with a project in an impossible room, it is not good for the clients, the recording label and it is certainly not good for you. Clients come to me with a certain expectation and a sizable expenditure that I will make something sounding good at the end not something we/I have to hide under excuses. The listeners don't care where you recorded it but they might care if it sounds bad. We do our best to make things happen but we also should know when to say no, at least you should tell the client that you are not good enough for the job, that clearly defined job.



Best regards,


Da-Hong
Always a pleasure to read the wisdom of the great Da-Hong. This is perhaps some of the greatest advice I have ever seen offered on this forum. Oh, how I wish I had the stones to follow it more often.

One can, with enough skill, elevate "mediocre" circumstances to sound "acceptable", perhaps even "good"; but never "great", which in the end will create the reputation necessary to command the fee needed to not take any "mediocre" gigs just to pay the rent.
Old 1 week ago
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson View Post
Always a pleasure to read the wisdom of the great Da-Hong. This is perhaps some of the greatest advice I have ever seen offered on this forum. Oh, how I wish I had the stones to follow it more often.

One can, with enough skill, elevate "mediocre" circumstances to sound "acceptable", perhaps even "good"; but never "great", which in the end will create the reputation necessary to command the fee needed to not take any "mediocre" gigs just to pay the rent.
So true Rob....although there are exceptions to every rule, like in the case of a single performance by the singer in a less than perfect venue...where one tries to do a 'mediocre to acceptable restoration job' after, as in the case of a current thread here: that small room sound...again
Old 3 days ago
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
NT55 = mic body with switchable pad and HPF that ships with two capsules: NT45-c cardioid and NT45-o omni.

The NT5 body ships with the NT45-c cardioid capsule and does *not* have switches. NT6s and NT4s also ship with NT45-c capsules.

The mics have a great boost on axis in the high end, which can make them perfect or not the best, depending on the situation.
Hi, my first post here after years of reading.

Last year I bought a set NT55 on the advice of NorseHorse (Christian Amonson) and use them with the NT45 omni for classic live recordings. They are especially good at a somewhat larger distance, if you can not get closer. Here a small piece of last saterday. I use them with Babyface pro. Unfortunately the mp3 compression has killed the stability of the acoustics.
Attached Files

I know that my.mp3 (4.92 MB, 1012 views)

Old 3 days ago
  #187
Lives for gear
Can you tell us something of the space it was recorded in..sounds like a huge cathedral (or a big reverb plug-in effect ) ?

I like the NT45-O...it turns the NT55/NT5 into a world class mic.
Old 3 days ago
  #188
Quote:
Originally Posted by dingenus View Post
Hi, my first post here after years of reading.

Last year I bought a set NT55 on the advice of NorseHorse (Christian Amonson) and use them with the NT45 omni for classic live recordings. They are especially good at a somewhat larger distance, if you can not get closer. Here a small piece of last saterday. I use them with Babyface pro. Unfortunately the mp3 compression has killed the stability of the acoustics.
havent used Rode. But this track needs deesser.
Old 3 days ago
  #189
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Can you tell us something of the space it was recorded in..sounds like a huge cathedral (or a big reverb plug-in effect ) ?

I like the NT45-O...it turns the NT55/NT5 into a world class mic.
Big old (300+y)church, granite floor, stone with plaster walls, high wooden ceiling.

Mics 3m high, 60cm wide, slightly tilted to the choir behind the orchestra, about 3m behind director.
Here a little part with choir in 44.1/24 wav. Exept converting nothing done. So the mics as they are.
Edit: it seems not possible to add a .wav of 10 mb. What do I wrong?
Then just an mp3
Attached Files

anthem4.mp3 (1.60 MB, 810 views)

Old 3 days ago
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
havent used Rode. But this track needs deesser.
Deessing could usefull here. The sopran was singing over a granite floor that didn't absorb anything. It has not much to do with the mics. The curve on axis is about -3,5db down at 7/8 kHz coming from1kHz. After that there is a big hill at 12/15 Khz (+4db). Thats above a sopran Ssss.
Old 3 days ago
  #191
Lives for gear
Doesn't sound sib to me on HD800 or near field actives, with Illuminator and Ring Rads
Very nice render
The choir a little distant and lacking in some presence, good specialisation on both files
Well done
Old 2 days ago
  #192
OK thank you. I will now buy some NT5s and O45s and be happy.
Old 2 days ago
  #193
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
OK thank you. I will now buy some NT5s and O45s and be happy.
Tim,

You won't be happy because the (seemingly generally avoided) NT5 does not come with the (seemingly much vaunted) NT45-o capsule.

See this useful post from the Norseman which explains it perfectly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
NT55 = mic body with switchable pad and HPF that ships with two capsules: NT45-c cardioid and NT45-o omni.

The NT5 body ships with the NT45-c cardioid capsule and does *not* have switches. NT6s and NT4s also ship with NT45-c capsules.
So the NT55 is the one to go for if you want the omni capsule.


NB: I've never used this mic, I'm just sorting out the integers!
Old 2 days ago
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Tim,You won't be happy because the (seemingly generally avoided) NT5 does not come with the (seemingly much vaunted) NT45-o capsule.
I think you might be overcomplicating the issue somewhat. The NT55 gives you a cardioid cap plus 3 position pad switch (0, -10, -20) and a 3 position HPF (off, 75 and 150 Hz) plus the additional included omni NT45-O capsule. Prices in $Aust below...

RODE NT55 Multi Pattern Studio Condenser Microphone

For a bit less money you can get the NT5 with cardioid cap only and no switches...and then buy the NT45-O as an aftermarket $95 screw-on accessory.

Turramurra Music :: Accessories - Microphone : Rode NT45-O

Or, if you think you'd like to have a remote cable and the ability to separate the preamp from the capsule, get the NT6 which gives a -10 pad and an 80Hz HPF switch and a 3metre Kevlar cable. Again, you'd buy the NT45-O as an add-on capsule, as above

RODE NT6 Studio Condenser Microphone with Remote Capsule

So depending on your intended usage you have a few options there...I'm assuming there's not much if any difference in the internal preamp circuitry between the NT's 5..55..6 ?
Old 2 days ago
  #195
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I think you might be overcomplicating the issue somewhat. The NT55 gives you a cardioid cap plus 3 position pad switch (0, -10, -20) and a 3 position HPF (off, 75 and 150 Hz) plus the additional included omni NT45-O capsule. Prices in $Aust below...

RODE NT55 Multi Pattern Studio Condenser Microphone

For a bit less money you can get the NT5 with cardioid cap only and no switches...and then buy the NT45-O as an aftermarket $95 screw-on accessory.

Turramurra Music :: Accessories - Microphone : Rode NT45-O

Or, if you think you'd like to have a remote cable and the ability to separate the preamp from the capsule, get the NT6 which gives a -10 pad and an 80Hz HPF switch and a 3metre Kevlar cable. Again, you'd buy the NT45-O as an add-on capsule, as above

RODE NT6 Studio Condenser Microphone with Remote Capsule

So depending on your intended usage you have a few options there...I'm assuming there's not much if any difference in the internal preamp circuitry between the NT's 5..55..6 ?
I bought the NT55 MP. Sensivity card.caps. -29,6 dB V/P1kHz and the other -30dB V/P1kHz. The omni -28,5 and -28,4. One omni wasn't good, to much high and too little low.(see photo) At my request, the importer sent 2 other capsules that I compared to my good one. After a few hours of comparative measurements with the omni caps, I choose the best and now have a sensitivity difference of 0.4dB/1kHz and a maximum deviation of + 0.6dB / -0.5dB between the two capsules. Maesured with a FFT window of 16384.
Attached Thumbnails
Stero pair to record classical music-untitled-5.jpg  
Old 2 days ago
  #196
Lives for gear
Well done...and good followup strategy to source additional capsules to do your own pair matching. Goes to show that numbers and specs alone don't tell the whole matching story.

Output balance between a pair could be adjusted for in post, but response variations would have more pressing implications for stereo image integrity.

It's often asserted that high-end companies like Schoeps and Sennheiser have such tight specs that individual pair matching is less critical or unnecessary, but your findings might challenge that assumption....?
Old 2 days ago
  #197
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Well done...and good followup strategy to source additional capsules to do your own pair matching. Goes to show that numbers and specs alone don't tell the whole matching story.

Output balance between a pair could be adjusted for in post, but response variations would have more pressing implications for stereo image integrity.

It's often asserted that high-end companies like Schoeps and Sennheiser have such tight specs that individual pair matching is less critical or unnecessary, but your findings might challenge that assumption....?
I would never buy from a seller that doens't offer matched pairs.
Old 2 days ago
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
I would never buy from a seller that doens't offer matched pairs.
and, as an advance from that...i'd like to know exactly what that pair matching involves. For some, it seems to be little more than giving you consecutive serial numbers on the mic bodies.
Something like this approach would give me more confidence: Werkskalibrierung
Old 2 days ago
  #199
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Given that my own personal aural equipment isn't very well matched, I doubt I could perceive a difference of <1dB...significant frequency variations...maybe. What is the best means of measuring a pair of mics in the home studio? Lacking an an-echoic chamber, as I do.
Old 2 days ago
  #200
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
and, as an advance from that...i'd like to know exactly what that pair matching involves. For some, it seems to be little more than giving you consecutive serial numbers on the mic bodies.
Something like this approach would give me more confidence: Werkskalibrierung
well at least you should have the same dB output and the same sound
Old 2 days ago
  #201
Gear Nut
 
ronmac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Given that my own personal aural equipment isn't very well matched, I doubt I could perceive a difference of <1dB...significant frequency variations...maybe. What is the best means of measuring a pair of mics in the home studio? Lacking an an-echoic chamber, as I do.
This test doesn't produce data, but will let you know if your mics are matched well enough for your purpose:

Q. How can I tell if a pair of mics is well matched? |
Old 1 day ago
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
This test doesn't produce data, but will let you know if your mics are matched well enough for your purpose:

Q. How can I tell if a pair of mics is well matched? |
Hi, thanks. I think the use off an assistant is not that precise. I follow about the same methode but use a speaker with noise at very close position. Placing the mics must be very precise.I use a ruler and caliper and spirit level to center very accurately in front of the speaker. If you are going to measure very close to the speaker, the acoustics of the room will play almost no role. You don't measure the exact frequentie respons but the differences between the microphones pretty precise. As an example, my Line Audio-om1 pair. See Attachment. This is measured for the tweeter at 5mm distance. This is not a matched pair. But the fabrication seems pretty accurate, especially for such an economical microphone.
This is measured with a very detailed FFT window. (16384)
Attached Thumbnails
Stero pair to record classical music-line-audio-om1.jpg  
Old 1 day ago
  #203
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dingenus View Post
Hi, thanks. I think the use off an assistant is not that precise. I follow about the same methode but use a speaker with noise at very close position...
Do you use pink noise amplified to the speaker?
Old 1 day ago
  #204
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 View Post
Hello,
It's frustrating to choose a pair of good mics to record classical music. It's more simple to choose a good recorder, Sound devices for example is certainly very good, but there are a lot of mics each with its own characteristics.
For example:
- Beyerdynamics 930: are they too smooth?
- Oktava 012: but since I live in Europe I cannot buy the mod version, how compare the unmodded version to other top level mic?
- Line Audio CM3: but they are wide cardiod, so maybe they are not the best option for a stereo recording

Is there a microphone that I can use for years in almost all situations? I want to invest in a good pair that can last for years
No one mic for everything, however, there are a few that are close, but they are not cheap like the budget of the mic's are listed. The closest to that would be a pair of KM84's or Schoeps. But even they are often not a good choice for close mic vocals or a low frequency close mic like kick or bass amp.
Old 1 day ago
  #205
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Tim,

You won't be happy because the (seemingly generally avoided) NT5 does not come with the (seemingly much vaunted) NT45-o capsule.

See this useful post from the Norseman which explains it perfectly...


So the NT55 is the one to go for if you want the omni capsule.


NB: I've never used this mic, I'm just sorting out the integers!
I can order the omni capsule... I don't need the pad or the HPF...
Old 1 day ago
  #206
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Old 4 hours ago
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I can order the omni capsule... I don't need the pad or the HPF...
Let me know if you want to borrow a pair sometime.
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