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Schoeps CMC6/MK4 Frustrations
Old 4th April 2018
  #31
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Plush's Avatar
She has disqualified us from validity. . .
Old 4th April 2018
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
"Except you judge and attack others who have a different experience. I don’t." - HelenaBzg
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
As far as I am concerned, you are disqualified from validity based upon your first sentence. If you want to hear just the ensemble, you would not use an omni because by its bature you are recording the entire environment. The fact that you think this thread is funny shows lack of comprehension and context.
"Except you judge and attack others who have a different experience. I don’t." - HelenaBzg
The reaction/response is not the problem. It is the initiation which is the problem. #followthepopcorntrail

P.S. Assessment and feedback is not judgement and attacking.
Old 4th April 2018
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
P.S. Assessment and feedback is not judgement and attacking.
Well, then I guess that depends on whether you are on the receiving end of it or not, eh?
Old 5th April 2018
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
Yeah, my clients want to hear the group, not the crappy room, coughing, sneezing, hacking, babies, doors, AC, lights, clicksand every percussive sound produced.
Perhaps your clients need to invest in a better calibre of room, and a better class of audience
Old 5th April 2018
  #35
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Such a strong entry to the forum!
Old 5th April 2018
  #36
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i don't mind strong opinions - if it's on gear! could we now go back on topic please?

i do like directional mics a lot (others don't), a like schoeps a lot (others prefer different gear), i'm using the mk4 a lot as mains in ortf, on about 80% of my recordings (others almost never) - no worries if you cannot agree on a single sentence...

we know that electronics could be improved on schoeps (and other gear) - here you probably could agree?

so instead of fighting, couldn't we team up and push schoeps (and others) in a joint effort to raise the bar and come up with an (additional) mic body that lets us hear their capsules in unexperienced ways?
Old 5th April 2018
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
we know that electronics could be improved on schoeps (and other gear) - here you probably could agree?

so instead of fighting, couldn't we team up and push schoeps (and others) in a joint effort to raise the bar and come up with an (additional) mic body that lets us hear their capsules in unexperienced ways?
I'd suggest that getting Schoeps to acknowledge any fault or shortcomings in their current product line would face multiple layers of resistance, denial, disbelief (and sheer refusal...based on all kinds of ego/pride stances) Not to mention the mics' widespread adoption by radio, film, TV, remote recording and studios. Most established mic companies would feel the same I suspect..... reluctance to fix what ain't perceived to be broke !

Jim Williams could likely spearhead such an advance, and I daresay it would have to be a 'built from the ground up' new mic body and electronics, with identical top threading...to which a Schoeps capsule gets attached by the user. Don't expect Schoeps' blessing for this sort of heresy....

However as a valid aftermarket solution to a perceived shortcoming in performance, there are certainly many, many precedents for such innovation out there in the world's marketplace. Rens H is but one example closer to home, not to mention Jim's own offerings.

If a 10% or more performance increase could be obtained (hard to quantify) there would definitely be a market for such a device..especially given the impending world trade/tariff war vortex, which we will all soon be so needlessly sucked into.
Old 5th April 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I'd suggest that getting Schoeps to acknowledge any fault or shortcomings in their current product line would face multiple layers of resistance, denial, disbelief (and sheer refusal...based on all kinds of ego/pride stances) Not to mention the mics' widespread adoption by radio, film, TV, remote recording and studios. Most established mic companies would feel the same I suspect..... reluctance to fix what ain't perceived to be broke !

Jim Williams could likely spearhead such an advance, and I daresay it would have to be a 'built from the ground up' new mic body and electronics, with identical top threading...to which a Schoeps capsule gets attached by the user. Don't expect Schoeps' blessing for this sort of heresy....

However as a valid aftermarket solution to a perceived shortcoming in performance, there are certainly many, many precedents for such innovation out there in the world's marketplace. Rens H is but one example closer to home, not to mention Jim's own offerings.

If a 10% or more performance increase could be obtained (hard to quantify) there would definitely be a market for such a device..especially given the impending world trade/tariff war vortex, which we will all soon be so needlessly sucked into.
could easily be the way you described it, so maybe i have to go the digital way - did you (or anyone else) ever get to use the schoeps digital mic bodies?!
Old 5th April 2018
  #39
Someone with a machine shop could manufacture adaptor rings so Schoeps capsules could be fitted on AKG bodies and other combinations. That is a market waiting to be filled.
Old 5th April 2018
  #40
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Frankenschoeps
Old 5th April 2018
  #41
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post

If a 10% or more performance increase could be obtained (hard to quantify) there would definitely be a market for such a device.
Now remember that we are trying to quantify (anything) in the real world. Not one single venue that I record in (including Benaroya Hall) has a quiet enough ambience that would allow me to quantify "fog" or "toppy" or "mid-suck-out" on any of the top-end mics that I use. Real world. Use the mics that you love (oh, and the preamps too) and record some fantastic music.

Sheesh!

D.
Old 5th April 2018
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Jim Williams could likely spearhead such an advance, ...
Like Rens Heijnis has done already?
Old 6th April 2018
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Like Rens Heijnis has done already?
Yes, there are a few contenders out there, with a variety of services, but it seems only Rens takes the current models to the next level:

John Bonnell Mic Mods - Condenser Microphone Modification
Schoeps CMC4 Upgrade
Rens Heijnis custom-built audio equipment
Old 6th April 2018
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Someone with a machine shop could manufacture adaptor rings so Schoeps capsules could be fitted on AKG bodies and other combinations. That is a market waiting to be filled.
Maybe not so easy, as this thread would suggest...especially post #4 (bremusound):

Schoeps capsules on Rode NT5 bodies!?
Old 6th April 2018
  #45
Gear Maniac
Not a big deal, but you would lose the benefit of not having a capacitor between capsule and fet gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Maybe not so easy, as this thread would suggest...especially post #4 (bremusound):

Schoeps capsules on Rode NT5 bodies!?
Old 18th January 2019
  #46
Gear Addict
I'm sorry to kick the topic.

I am still in the run for a couple of these mics and considering both options. The interesting comment on the fog, and later on someone suggested the mods done by Rens Heijnis... i just listened to that, and I can hear that "fog" as well. Its subtle, but evident.

I am not entirely sure what I prefer. There are more details, but the slight warmth I can also perceive as pleasant. I also think personally (as home recorder) these mods are going a bit too far for my hobby :-)

So curious..what was the outcome?
Old 18th January 2019
  #47
I heard that fog back in the 1980's next to B+K 4006's. To be fair, some of that is the 3 db 16k hz lift of the B+K capsules. The other cause is the .1 uf WIMA MKS-2 mylar coupling caps, they are slow = mushy.

I recall changing those out to MKP-2 polyprop caps. That fixed that missing detail. The Mic Parts designs all used the polyprop versions to avoid that issue.
Old 18th January 2019
  #48
Gear Head
@ Jim W - The Frankenschoeps idea is interesting, as I always seem to be in need of more bodies. I'm in a position to make such an adapter a reality... Folks, I wonder, at what price point would we all find such a product attractive?

To be honest I always bargain hunt for CMC5s at the $500 mark. That seems a logical point of comparison, no?

Thinking...
Old 19th January 2019
  #49
If you build it we will come...
Old 19th January 2019
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimermonk View Post
@ Jim W - The Frankenschoeps idea is interesting, as I always seem to be in need of more bodies. I'm in a position to make such an adapter a reality... Folks, I wonder, at what price point would we all find such a product attractive?

To be honest I always bargain hunt for CMC5s at the $500 mark. That seems a logical point of comparison, no?

Thinking...
i'd pay (up to/no more than ca.) $200 per adapter - if i'd like the results, i'd place an order for eight adapters though...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 19th January 2019 at 06:13 PM.. Reason: edited for clarification
Old 19th January 2019
  #51
I need 6 here. AKG 460 to mate to Schoeps capsules.
Old 19th January 2019
  #52
Gear Addict
 

I'm surprised MicParts isn't already just selling a version of their SDC body, with the circuit they already have, to accept Schoeps capsules. Seems an easy win; I've thought they should do this for a while. It also makes owning a pair of "Schoeps" cheaper than the real thing, as the capsules aren't too expensive by themselves.
Old 20th January 2019
  #53
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For me, MK4 capsules sound the least appealing of all the common Schoeps capsules ... I much prefer MK22 or MK21.
Old 21st January 2019
  #54
Gear Head
I'll investigate this Schoeps/AKG adapter idea further, and report back. Anyone else with feedback on the concept, please chime in. @ Jim Williams do you have an opinion on the compatibility of Schoeps capsules Rode SDC amplifiers -- if I remember right you had something to do with some circuit design on their LD line? I'd love to use my NT6 with Schoeps capsules... it would be a very inexpensive way to get the remote cable feature for on-camera or low-profile concert situations.
Old 21st January 2019
  #55
Gear Head
 

from Schoeps capsules on Rode NT5 bodies!?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bremusound View Post
Schoeps capsules are special. The capsule element is isolated from the housing. That's the trick why they don't need a capsule-to-fet-gate capacitor.
So, they have an extra connection for the polarizing voltage and won't work with other mics, even when they have a schoeps copy circuit in it, unless they're modified to have that connection. It should be possible to polarize them over the backplate connection (central pin), then you would have to connect the ring to the housing / to ground.
Old 21st January 2019
  #56
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without being in a room to record, Schoeps can't handle outside weather. Often artists set up to record in conditions that require a microphone that won't fail from humidity or change in temperatures.
Old 21st January 2019
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
without being in a room to record, Schoeps can't handle outside weather. Often artists set up to record in conditions that require a microphone that won't fail from humidity or change in temperatures.
But when they are setup to record the highest art of classical or jazz fine music in the highest art of human architectural achievement, the concert hall, gee they sound superb.
Old 21st January 2019
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
For me, MK4 capsules sound the least appealing of all the common Schoeps capsules ... I much prefer MK22 or MK21.
i doubt it's the capsule, the mk4 is very flat and uncoloured; getting more from what's in front of the mic and have some rear cancellation leads to different sound though - i'm often using schoeps directional capsules and like them a lot.
Old 21st January 2019
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i know that the neumann km184s don't get too much love from many recordists, but i have used the digital versions (into a dmi-2) in ortf for mains when all other available options (schoeps, b&k and sennheiser) didn't seem to 'cut' it: there was clarity, no fog, they didn't seem hazy nor sounded glassy nor strident (as some people claim the analog 184s would do...) - and there is no noise!

i keep on using them mostly for rear ambis or as spots on very quite sources.

(they regularly show up on ebay for ridiculous prices).

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Like Rens Heijnis has done already?
Yes, all the Neumann KM 184 hanging from the ceiling at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam as spot mics have got entirely new electronics built in. They have become useful tools where as none of us would ever consider the stock one.
Old 21st January 2019
  #60
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Does anyone know whether the mic parts pcb fits straight into the KM184? That would open the door for many.
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