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Youth orchestra Condenser Microphones
Old 20th April 2018
  #31
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Thread Starter
I can put 1 or 1.5 meter to the left and extend the boom arm so I can position a 40cm stereo bar as meter behind and above the conductor's head.
To position it correctly I would the stereo bar to connect a 90 angle to the boom arm with something like this :
Old 20th April 2018
  #32
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K&M 238 Microphone holder
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Youth orchestra-microphone_holder_black_23800-300-55ea77a8cdd45aa2e30b2b0b5d0263f7a1-productpage_orig.jpg  
Old 20th April 2018
  #33
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Yes that should work, and maybe now you have more flexibility in placement than if the stand was behind the conductor ?

Let's hope they don't come up with any more 'placement caveats' (it's usually video people who will surprise you with these, 20 mins before the concert is about to begin, as they are setting up their camera sight-lines)
Old 20th April 2018
  #34
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euhmmm no ... that wouldn't work ... unless I attach the Soundfield.
but last time one of the capsules was crackkling ...

so I need two stands for AB stereo or do a decca tree with outriggers.
they suddently agree on this.

The stage walls and rear will be covered with black curtain
is that better than concrete walls?

Last time I did a decca tree
a colleague brought small stands and attached extension rods on them,
and taped it to the floor. Visually not obtrusive at all, but I was fearing
the stands would fall down,....

So now I'll use Superlux MS200's.
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Youth orchestra-7846862_800.jpg  
Old 20th April 2018
  #35
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If they're now permitting 2 stands (is that 1 on each side of the conductor ?) then put a boom on top of each and make a kind of 'door archway' with the 2 boom arms, and a 67cm spaced omni pair (one mic on each boom arm) as your main pair...or lower both the stand sections, make a 17cm ORTF/or 30cm NOS spacing, then raise them to equal height ?

Sandbag the base of each stand and gaffa tape the legs to the floor also, as they are close to young musicians on either side....and leave the Tree for another time.

The black curtain will cut down on HF reflections, which could be good or bad...if you are given a choice rehearse with both, and see which sounds better for the recording ?
Old 20th April 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
euhmmm no ... that wouldn't work ... unless I attach the Soundfield.
but last time one of the capsules was crackkling ...

so I need two stands for AB stereo or do a decca tree with outriggers.
they suddently agree on this.

The stage walls and rear will be covered with black curtain
is that better than concrete walls?

Last time I did a decca tree
a colleague brought small stands and attached extension rods on them,
and taped it to the floor. Visually not obtrusive at all, but I was fearing
the stands would fall down,....

So now I'll use Superlux MS200's.
once it's one mic stand, then two, once your talking about coincident mics, then decca, once about gefell, then superlux, once about concrete, then curtains, once about one recorder, then two... - get a grip!
Old 20th April 2018
  #37
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
once it's one mic stand, then two, once your talking about coincident mics, then decca, once about gefell, then superlux, once about concrete, then curtains, once about one recorder, then two... - get a grip!
Old 20th April 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
- get a grip!
wise advice, coming from the birth city of LSD !

Just pack and bring everything you might use, and be prepared for any eventuality or change of policy.... in the hour before the concert begins
Old 20th April 2018
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
wise advice, coming from the birth city of LSD !

Just pack and bring everything you might use, and be prepared for any eventuality or change of policy.... in the hour before the concert begins
i read an interview with albert hofmann a few years ago where he mentioned that the world would maybe be a better place if more folks would try his invention every now and then...

(i'm sure you noticed that we got serious studies going on for treatment of patients with mental disorders and that there are high hopes lsd can help quite a few people)

and regarding mics/gear, i can recommend that too: grab everything you can, but have a plan (or two) - it happens way too often that major changes throw off everything one was trying to achieve just a few minutes/hours before, with troubles emerging mostly from video...
Old 20th April 2018
  #40
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Thread Starter
exactly there will be video. It appears that was the reason the one and only central stand that I was forced to comply with, was suddenly declared a no-go.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #41
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Lots of good suggestions already.

Another possibility to consider, depending on the quality of your ribbon mics and preamps, would be a central, single-stand blumlein main pair of ribbons, along with a pair of your best omnis or cardioids (depending on audience noise and location options) for room sound. With good ribbons, this can be a very flexible and forgiving set-up for concert recording.
Old 26th April 2018
  #42
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by partimento View Post
Lots of good suggestions already.

Another possibility to consider, depending on the quality of your ribbon mics and preamps, would be a central, single-stand blumlein main pair of ribbons, along with a pair of your best omnis or cardioids (depending on audience noise and location options) for room sound. With good ribbons, this can be a very flexible and forgiving set-up for concert recording.
will try Soundfield, but the mike is having crackling noises and such.
left it on phantom power for 48 hours, and now it seems to be better.
ribbons ? Would like to - never heard them on a big ensemble.
Old 29th April 2018
  #43
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Thread Starter
I did an AB100 with omnis, Soundfield in between and a ORTF-ish woodwind spot. The hall was very dry,
because of the black curtains and public. To my surprise I could add reverb without noticing the box in the box effect.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #44
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Thread Starter
Here is the finished mix:
WeTransfer
thanks for all your advice.

Soundfield and spot mike were at -10dB,
Magix Variverb Hall B HQ at 0 dB level. some Ammunition compressor.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #45
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Well done! It is always so satisfying to record young musicians. You can hear their enthusiasm in their playing, especially on a fun piece like the Grieg.

EDIT: not really a criticism, more of a comment - the bass drum was just a touch 'flabby' for my taste...maybe from the reverb applied?

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 3rd May 2018 at 01:03 PM..
Old 3rd May 2018
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
Here is the finished mix:
WeTransfer
thanks for all your advice.

Soundfield and spot mike were at -10dB,
Magix Variverb Hall B HQ at 0 dB level. some Ammunition compressor.
Those musicians did very well, it's all too easy for the tempos to get out of sync at the end of a piece like that ! A nice expansive soundscape too, considering the dryness of the room.

The reverb tail sounds a bit long and artificial though, too 'clean and precise'...maybe try a smaller room and combine it with a big plate, to add some complexity to the ambience, at lower levels for each ?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #47
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Those musicians did very well, it's all too easy for the tempos to get out of sync at the end of a piece like that ! A nice expansive soundscape too, considering the dryness of the room.

The reverb tail sounds a bit long and artificial though, too 'clean and precise'...maybe try a smaller room and combine it with a big plate, to add some complexity to the ambience, at lower levels for each ?
Thank you Jim and Studer,

Well yeah, I struggled with this algo-reverb. If I tame the HF of the reverb, it sounds really less stereoish. I'll play with the diffusion, modulation, room size.

I also have the walhalla room, didn't try it yet on this recording.

I don't have a plate, only in software. Is that any good on orchestra?

The "Room Simulator" Convultion reverb sounded worse, but I haven't checked it with a lot of impulse responses.

is a predelay of 15 ms a good starting point?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #48
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I can't claim to be an expect on room simulations, but do find that rolling off the high end and low end of sends to an effects buss (the Abbey Road trick) can hide the apparent awareness of how much is being applied...so you can get away with using more than otherwise.

I also like the 'complexity' approach, chaining a few disparate spaces, chambers, plates...even springs...together, perhaps each in quite small amounts. The old idea of increasing the effect until you can just notice it, then winding it back 3-6dB, is probably a good starting point.

Another recommendation is to be faithful to the cubic volume of the original source room/hall/church...not to impose something clearly much bigger upon it. Often all you want to do is simulate the removal of carpets and drapes...and then add a layer of smooth plaster to the walls

Finally, I'd suggest using every opportunity to familiarize oneself with the real sound of such spaces: attend concerts in a variety of them, visit churches and spend a few minutes quiet contemplation (and appreciation of their acoustics) frequently...so that you can intelligently know that of which you would emulate at home.
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