The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Overplaying when microphones are in front of me. Condenser Microphones
Old 12th March 2018
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Overplaying when microphones are in front of me.

I have a weird “quirk” when I record myself playing classical guitar: I play everything fff because I feel the microphones can not “hear me.” I will admit this is a little crazy and is an issue I should have brought up a long time ago.

Part of the problem is tension. That is something I know how to work on. I use a stereo pair of Shure KSM141’s (I prefer Omni) into a DAV BG-1 preamp. The two ways I know how to get a better signal is to move the microphones closer or turn up the preamp gain or both. I know a pair of spaced omni’s 20’ back in an acoustically confused room with no gain will be effective, nor will all 59db of gain 6” from the guitar in the same room with the same mics.

“A meter back and a meter high” relative to my sitting position is a starting point I’ve been stuck on for too long. Without much information to go on, how close is reasonable mic placement and how much preamp gain is reasonable? On guitar amplifiers, turning the gain all the way up rarely creates a good tone. A microphone preamp is not a guitar preamp, but I have been treating them the same way, and probably being light on mic preamp.

“Experiment” and “if it sounds good it is good” are two suggestions that make me think of “infinity” which right now is too wide a scope. I think several informed suggestions will reorient my line of thinking so I can trust that the microphones can hear me. Informed suggestions will probably not sound like you would think but any major changes will not go unnoticed. Instead of thinking there is sound quality problem to solve, think of this as a helping me achieve a different result with “finite” instructions. Putting the microphones outside while I play in the laundry room exceeds the finite boundaries.

Your experience and intuition will be drastically different than mine. I think that will help right now.
Old 12th March 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
What don't you like about your current recordings ? The 'one meter up and back' is a good starting point, why not stay with that until you figure out what you do and don't like from your current recordings.

Are you hearing too much detail in your playing...too much string squeak or fingernail noise or fret buzz ? If so, you you might be miking too closely...or have poor technique.

Are you hearing enough of the room...or too much ? Mic choice and pattern plus distance from instrument will vary that blend until you find a happy medium. Maybe the room doesn't enhance the guitar sound anyway, so liitle point in inviting more of it into the recording ?

You don't have to 'play to the mics'...they can hear much better than you ! The further away you site the mics, the more of the attacks and transients of your playing will be absorbed and muted (reduced I mean) by the air between guitar and mics...but too close a mic placement will exaggerate these and make them hyper-real and magnified...not good either ! That's what finding a happy balance is all about....between air and ambience at one extreme, and detail and attack on the other end.

If it's simple 'red light nerves' when the record button gets pressed...then just do a whole lot more recording...and don't pay too much attention to the playing...just listen for the best blend of what I outlined above...at least that will get the mics in the best spot. I assume you're talking about a non-concert, non-studio recording setup...where your time is your own ?

The mic preamp settings are trivial and the least of your worries....just set them for an average of -12 @24 bits and then forget...no need to get anywhere near the yellow or red (0) and if too quiet you can always boost them later. When you write of wanting a 'better signal' is that in terms of sheer volume or better clarity of playing detail ?

Finally, please tell me you aren't monitoring the recording process with headphones on while you're playing...that's the surest way to exacerbate the whole 'focussing on excessive detail'....and thatway lies madness !

I suggest this because, if you become too accustomed to underplaying your expression and side-stepping good techniques (because the mics pick up tiny nuances and feed them directly into your headphones) then eventually your public playing style will become cramped and introverted...because you'll be playing to a pair of microphones which hears differently than an audience. Although if you aspire to become solely a bedroom guitarist and recordist, then the above approach makes much sense.....your choice.

Last edited by studer58; 12th March 2018 at 01:16 PM..
Old 12th March 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 

are you using headphones while recording? if so, you may want to adjust them for proper/better hearing and a more relaxed feeling in general...

i'm mostly using three mics to record an acoustic guitar: one (wide) cardioid between where the neck joins the body and the sound hole at short distance of maybe 30cm (that needs much less gain than what you mentioned) and a stereo pair (configuration depending on room) to record of a more 'ambient' sound at 1-1.5m. again, they require less gain (when recording digital) as their signal will be lower in the mix anyway...
Old 12th March 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Spend enough rehearsal time with head phones to get immediate feedback on exactly how movement of your mics effects your sound. The benefit of real time monitoring is the best protocol to find your sound: it is also the quickest and best way to get rid of your "red light recording anxiety'! Confidence in the sonic quality of your performance and the certainty of your gear to capture it is absolutely necessary for a relaxed effort.
Hugh
Old 13th March 2018
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Agreed about headphones, and it (almost) goes without saying that you need to be sure to get headphones that don't bleed, otherwise you're going to hear that tinny headphone bleed sound on your recordings. This is The Voice of Experience speaking.
Old 13th March 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
Then comes the matter of how well the headphone listening translates to speaker playback ?

If both your monitor speakers and headphones are high quality (which in the case of headphones usually means the open backed variety, which can let bleed out into your recording mics, if you're monitoring at any significant level with close mics !) you could expect some congruence and consistency...but I'd still bet on the speaker playback as the ultimate test of resolution.

The very fact of having headphones on will distort the natural feedback you get from playing an acoustic instrument acoustically...you're putting an additional blanketing (or at least distorting) link in your listening chain that doesn't need to be there.

I maintain that playing and recording with headphones on (unless you're overdubbing and 'dropping-in' corrections...in which case they are vital) habitually is no shortcut to confidence that your mic placement is correct, and that it will also ultimately shape your playing in a quite undesirable direction.

Record 5 mins of playing, listen back on speakers, analyze what you do (and don't) like about the capture and your playing....move the mics to correct this, alter playing style if necessary, record another 5 mins and repeat the process. I'm confident that after 5 or 6 of these micro-recordings, perhaps spread over a couple of days, you'll have learned more about all the variables than anyone can outline here....and it will be YOUR knowledge, not 2nd hand truisms....plus your confidence will build dramatically too.

Working solo on this can be tough too....if you can engage a friend with ears/judgement that you trust, and play for them a few demonstration CD recordings which you'd like to approach sonically, they could move mics around while wearing headphones for live feed and probably help you arrive at a few possible mic locations faster than doing it all yourself...perhaps ?
Old 13th March 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
What don't you like about your current recordings ? The 'one meter up and back' is a good starting point, why not stay with that until you figure out what you do and don't like from your current recordings.

Are you hearing too much detail in your playing...too much string squeak or fingernail noise or fret buzz ? If so, you you might be miking too closely...or have poor technique.

Are you hearing enough of the room...or too much ? Mic choice and pattern plus distance from instrument will vary that blend until you find a happy medium. Maybe the room doesn't enhance the guitar sound anyway, so liitle point in inviting more of it into the recording ?

You don't have to 'play to the mics'...they can hear much better than you ! The further away you site the mics, the more of the attacks and transients of your playing will be absorbed and muted (reduced I mean) by the air between guitar and mics...but too close a mic placement will exaggerate these and make them hyper-real and magnified...not good either ! That's what finding a happy balance is all about....between air and ambience at one extreme, and detail and attack on the other end.

If it's simple 'red light nerves' when the record button gets pressed...then just do a whole lot more recording...and don't pay too much attention to the playing...just listen for the best blend of what I outlined above...at least that will get the mics in the best spot. I assume you're talking about a non-concert, non-studio recording setup...where your time is your own ?

The mic preamp settings are trivial and the least of your worries....just set them for an average of -12 @24 bits and then forget...no need to get anywhere near the yellow or red (0) and if too quiet you can always boost them later. When you write of wanting a 'better signal' is that in terms of sheer volume or better clarity of playing detail ?

Finally, please tell me you aren't monitoring the recording process with headphones on while you're playing...that's the surest way to exacerbate the whole 'focussing on excessive detail'....and thatway lies madness !

I suggest this because, if you become too accustomed to underplaying your expression and side-stepping good techniques (because the mics pick up tiny nuances and feed them directly into your headphones) then eventually your public playing style will become cramped and introverted...because you'll be playing to a pair of microphones which hears differently than an audience. Although if you aspire to become solely a bedroom guitarist and recordist, then the above approach makes much sense.....your choice.
"Low on detail" would be a good description of the sound. I would like more detail and volume. The minimum gain setting on the BG-1 is 26 db and I always set it at 41db, 44db, or 47db. I could be wrong but the average level is usually closer to -20. This makes me think I am not using my preamp very efficiently.

I do not monitor with headphones while I am recording myself on classical guitar. I have experienced the "madness" studer58 described and a variation of what bradh described. I am not against the idea but I when I monitor my playing, my instinct is not to adjust the gear, it is to adjust how I'm playing to satisfy the gear. So far, the results have not been good for me. I may change someday...

Yes, my time is my own but this is a skill I want to improve upon.
Old 13th March 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
I assume you transfer your recordings to computer...or record directly there via an interface connected to the DAV ? If your recording levels average -20, what happens if you add 8 or 10dB of gain later in the computer. Does that bring the detail up sufficiently for you to appreciate (obviously, it pumps the volume up also !) If the sound is what you seek, then boost the DAV input gain by that amount.

If there's still insufficient detail with the gain increase, then bring your mics a little closer, or play a little more dynamically. Of similar interest would be the transient or dynamic range...are you getting enough contrasts between the quieter and louder passages. If not, it could be down to the mics being too far back and soaking up the contrasts...or again, playing style.

I'd examine the detail you get with the gain on the DAV set a bit hotter...that increase alone may do the trick, and if not experiment with mic spacing and distance from the guitar. Starting off with an XY cardioid pair can give you a more solid central focus (if a somewhat too narrow width) ...while placed further back from the guitar than an omni pair would be.

You've got a lot of variables at your fingertips: mic patterns, spacing width, height and distance from guitar, preamp gain: don't vary more than one of these at a time or you won't know what's contributing to the perceived changes. Give yourself a few weeks to adjust them all, so you'll come up with the 'operating parameters' which please you....and all the while the playing will make you a better musician !
Old 13th March 2018
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
I do not monitor with headphones while I am recording myself on classical guitar. I have experienced the "madness" studer58 described and a variation of what bradh described. I am not against the idea but I when I monitor my playing, my instinct is not to adjust the gear, it is to adjust how I'm playing to satisfy the gear.
Same here -- I hate recording with headphones on, and only do so when required (e.g., in a studio where I'm recording with tracks already recorded by other musicians or if we're all playing together but isolated, which I also dislike). But I do think the suggestion above to use headphones to test different distances and positions of the mics is a good one -- I do that when recording myself. I use the headphones to evaluate different mic positions and distances, and then once I'm happy I take the headphones off and record. The alternative suggested by studer58 ("micro-recordings") is probably the best approach, though a little more time-consuming. I've done both.

The other approach to this is psychological rather than technical. I think it's entirely possible to train yourself to play the same way with mics in front of you as you play without them. If you think of it as another guitar technique to learn, a skill to acquire, you can overcome your instinct to play louder when the mics are there. The omnis should capture detail and retain bass even if you move them back a little, but don't be afraid to move them closer as an experiment -- in the "Omni Application Guide" I have for my Earthworks QTC40 stereo pair, it says with respect to acoustic guitar that "Several people have mentioned exciting results with a near coincident pair 6 to 8 inches from the face." By "face" I assume they mean the soundboard.
Old 13th March 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Apparently studer58 and I will need to agree to disagree: there are thousands of opinions on either side of the speaker VxS headphone debate with out clear empirical or scientific evidence to prove either preference right or wrong! Given the OP's initial question and more importantly quantifying the most important elements of mic training, closed phones are an indispensable tool to efficiently get where you need to go to become a "session ready" player. Todays reality in most commercial recording projects is to pass around WAV files for layering tracks in the personal recording space of accomplished session players: try this without total comfort and experience working with closed cans. A second and more important point is the immediate feedback a player gets in direct HP monitoring before the recorder is ever turned on. Indentifying the sweet spot for your mic capture choice is not rocket science however it does require careful attention to spatial detail that requires the type of immediate performance feed back head phones will best provide.
Hugh
Old 13th March 2018
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Given the OP's initial question and more importantly quantifying the most important elements of mic training, closed phones are an indispensable tool to efficiently get where you need to go to become a "session ready" player. Todays reality in most commercial recording projects is to pass around WAV files for layering tracks in the personal recording space of accomplished session players: try this without total comfort and experience working with closed cans.
But in this case we're talking about classical guitar, which is usually a very different recording experience. There's nothing "session ready" about it, no layering, etc. In most cases we're talking about solo performance or live ensemble recordings. It's a different world.
Old 13th March 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
 

I can identify with the OP's concern. I'd encourage him to follow his ear. It will guide you.

In my experience it can sound pretty raw up close if you're trying to project (in my case an acoustic piano) to the back row of a good sized hall. When your intended audience is only a few feet away you gotta change it up.

If your headphone mix isn't right that could definitely alter your sound. But having said that, there are much more qualified sound engineers on this forum who actually can give good advice on that.
Old 13th March 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
I have a weird “quirk” when I record myself playing classical guitar: I play everything fff because I feel the microphones can not “hear me.” I will admit this is a little crazy and is an issue I should have brought up a long time ago.

Part of the problem is tension. That is something I know how to work on. I use a stereo pair of Shure KSM141’s (I prefer Omni) into a DAV BG-1 preamp. The two ways I know how to get a better signal is to move the microphones closer or turn up the preamp gain or both. I know a pair of spaced omni’s 20’ back in an acoustically confused room with no gain will be effective, nor will all 59db of gain 6” from the guitar in the same room with the same mics.

“A meter back and a meter high” relative to my sitting position is a starting point I’ve been stuck on for too long. Without much information to go on, how close is reasonable mic placement and how much preamp gain is reasonable? On guitar amplifiers, turning the gain all the way up rarely creates a good tone. A microphone preamp is not a guitar preamp, but I have been treating them the same way, and probably being light on mic preamp.

“Experiment” and “if it sounds good it is good” are two suggestions that make me think of “infinity” which right now is too wide a scope. I think several informed suggestions will reorient my line of thinking so I can trust that the microphones can hear me. Informed suggestions will probably not sound like you would think but any major changes will not go unnoticed. Instead of thinking there is sound quality problem to solve, think of this as a helping me achieve a different result with “finite” instructions. Putting the microphones outside while I play in the laundry room exceeds the finite boundaries.

Your experience and intuition will be drastically different than mine. I think that will help right now.
You sound frustrated in ways I've been at times. My conservatory training was all about how to sound good in a concert hall. Like a Broadway actor using a loud stage voice. But recording (when not in a concert hall) needs a different touch.
Old 13th March 2018
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
Part of the problem is tension. That is something I know how to work on. I use a stereo pair of Shure KSM141’s (I prefer Omni) into a DAV BG-1 preamp. The two ways I know how to get a better signal is to move the microphones closer or turn up the preamp gain or both. I know a pair of spaced omni’s 20’ back in an acoustically confused room with no gain will be effective, nor will all 59db of gain 6” from the guitar in the same room with the same mics.
In addition to the good suggestions already offered, it seems to me that you might be pleased trying to experiment with placements on the close side (approx. 1m) which give you a pleasing presentation of the instrument.

Then, adding a tasteful "barely there" level of artificial reverberation -- with a high-quality convolution reverb, for example -- may be a good way to achieve the balance of detail combined with ambience you described.

Many of them are no longer hosted/available, but if you have heard any of Ivo Sedlacek's recordings on this forum, he has many recordings of acoustic stringed instruments using this technique very generally speaking. Often using a pair of Schoeps MK2 (similar to the omni setting of the MK5, upon which the KSM141 is modeled)
Old 14th March 2018
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Thank you all for the advice. I will be trying out the suggestions you provided over a period of time. I will admit much of this is psychological. My approach, my reasons for my approach, my "perfectionism," etc. Placing my mics 6" - 8" from the guitar top seems like a bad idea...so I'm going to try it. I started recording in stereo with XY so I will revisit that pattern again.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to steer my proverbial "recording ship" in a new direction.
Old 14th March 2018
  #16
Lives for gear
Time to fess up about your current ability...and your playing career aspirations.
Are you a competent bedroom player....but never venture out from it ? Do you play concerts (for the public, either 3 people or 300...irrespective of whether they pay to see/hear you or not) ?
Are you trained in a music school or conservatorium....or self taught ?
Does the quality of your guitar exceed your playing ability..or is it low/cheap enough to be handicapping your developing chops ?
Where do you see yourself in 5 and 15 years from now...with a touring/playing career, making great CD's (or whatever the hell delivery medium we have by then )

These are not impertinent or demeaning questions..just trying to establish where you are and where you want to be ? I'm guessing that a simple Zoom H4n placed on a chair 2 or 3 feet in front of you would give you enough information to facilitate improvement of your playing. If you're poised at the pinnacle of playing excellence, then you need those Schoeps/DAV/top level DAC's to capture your playing with ultimate fidelity.

You fall somewhere between those 2 camps.....no ?

Re recordings...I like the idea of those Gyuto Buddhist monks from Tibet. They will take up residency for inspirational talks, chanting and prayer for usually 2 to 5 days in a location (usually in the 'civilized West') They also devote incredible dexterity and fine-manual skill in creating a sand-sculpture or mandala using coloured sands and fine dispensing tools (you can see in the videos linked below)...but it is more than an artistic creation of extraordinary beauty and detail. It permits them to meditate on the things we aspire to, and the impermanence and transient nature of beauty and art. At the end of these days of creating the "work" it is ceremonially disposed of within minutes...and dispersed to the public and into flowing rivers. It shows the folly of becoming too attached to material items, to the creations of mankind....


I think our recordings can have too much meaning attached, when they are often just the renderings of air movements...and can have too much significance attached to them. Maybe like the monks, it is wise to learn from your recordings ...then erase them....not elevate them to a status more than they deserve ? That's probably inflammatory, heretical talk around here...so be it.

See if these videos inspire any alternative thoughts or responses about 'art and artifacts' ...as practised by humans ?

YouTube

YouTube << in some ways this defeats the purpose, as it accelerates what takes 'real time' to make....

YouTube

Know when to create, when to record, when to destroy (without looking back) ....
Old 14th March 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Some of the convoluted arguments advanced in these threads never fail to amaze me however a clear voice of reason, such as ttippie's in post #12 , can restore real world common sense to the discussion. He is absolutely right, when sound reinforcement or recording is in play the audience is well within two feet of the performer, (the mic or mics) not in the middle or back of the room. Consequently the task is to identify the proper performing attack and sweet spot for the mic to capture your performance when the Mic is in fact your audio audience.
Hugh
Old 15th March 2018
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Some of the convoluted arguments advanced in these threads never fail to amaze me however a clear voice of reason, such as ttippie's in post #12 , can restore real world common sense to the discussion. He is absolutely right, when sound reinforcement or recording is in play the audience is well within two feet of the performer, (the mic or mics) not in the middle or back of the room. Consequently the task is to identify the proper performing attack and sweet spot for the mic to capture your performance when the Mic is in fact your audio audience.
Hugh
It's a good point you raise about reinforcement. If a guitarist is playing before 400 people in an auditorium, it's common for there to be light PA reinforcement, so that the rear rows are not straining to hear....and if non-amplified the sound can become mighty thin and non-impactful back there ! (BTW a Sennheiser MKH40 is an excellent mic for such purposes !)

So that frees up the player to perform more naturally, knowing the reinforcement mic is pushing their performance out to the audience at a satisfying level. The aim in that situation is to always make the resulting PA sound 'just a fraction louder, for any given seat in the room' than it would be if they were sitting 10 feet in front of the player. In other words, to avoid the sensation of it being "obviously amplified" to any degree.

Option B in that situation (and usually for a much smaller audience) is to mic as above but feed the signal into an 'acoustic amp' onstage near to or just behind the player...so that they become in effect a 'louder point source of sound' than they would otherwise be without the amp. A typical amp for this purpose would be: – Compact 60-3
Old 15th March 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
I had several friends in grad school who recorded themselves as a pedagogical method, who had great success with a method of recording, objectively reflecting, adjusting, repeating. I would suggest a similar approach may help you better understand how the sound you hear in your head while performing compares to what you hear through the mics (it could also help to give you a better idea of what the audience is hearing, as well).
Old 15th March 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Couple of suggestions: (1) take and keep good notes, so you don’t have to reinvent the wheel too often; (2) audition great recordings of the style(s) in which you play, referenced through the headphones you’ll use for a consistent point of reference; (3) use an assistant if you can to speed up placement and levels; (4) as the Duke said, “If it sounds good... it IS good.”

HB
Old 17th March 2018
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post
I have a weird “quirk” when I record myself playing classical guitar: I play everything fff because I feel the microphones can not “hear me.” I will admit this is a little crazy and is an issue I should have brought up a long time ago.

Part of the problem is tension. That is something I know how to work on. I use a stereo pair of Shure KSM141’s (I prefer Omni) into a DAV BG-1 preamp. The two ways I know how to get a better signal is to move the microphones closer or turn up the preamp gain or both. I know a pair of spaced omni’s 20’ back in an acoustically confused room with no gain will be effective, nor will all 59db of gain 6” from the guitar in the same room with the same mics.

“A meter back and a meter high” relative to my sitting position is a starting point I’ve been stuck on for too long. Without much information to go on, how close is reasonable mic placement and how much preamp gain is reasonable? On guitar amplifiers, turning the gain all the way up rarely creates a good tone. A microphone preamp is not a guitar preamp, but I have been treating them the same way, and probably being light on mic preamp.

“Experiment” and “if it sounds good it is good” are two suggestions that make me think of “infinity” which right now is too wide a scope. I think several informed suggestions will reorient my line of thinking so I can trust that the microphones can hear me. Informed suggestions will probably not sound like you would think but any major changes will not go unnoticed. Instead of thinking there is sound quality problem to solve, think of this as a helping me achieve a different result with “finite” instructions. Putting the microphones outside while I play in the laundry room exceeds the finite boundaries.

Your experience and intuition will be drastically different th mine. I think that will help right now.
To address the issue of over playing and tension in front of mics, I’d say before you start, imagine the physical sensation you had playing your piece when it felt great. Perhaps it was practicing in a room at your house or in a practice room when you felt relaxed.

Take a little time to recall that situation and how it felt - place yourself there, then start.
Old 18th March 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Time to fess up about your current ability...and your playing career aspirations.
Are you a competent bedroom player....but never venture out from it ? Do you play concerts (for the public, either 3 people or 300...irrespective of whether they pay to see/hear you or not) ?
Are you trained in a music school or conservatorium....or self taught ?
Does the quality of your guitar exceed your playing ability..or is it low/cheap enough to be handicapping your developing chops ?
Where do you see yourself in 5 and 15 years from now...with a touring/playing career, making great CD's (or whatever the hell delivery medium we have by then )

These are not impertinent or demeaning questions..just trying to establish where you are and where you want to be ? I'm guessing that a simple Zoom H4n placed on a chair 2 or 3 feet in front of you would give you enough information to facilitate improvement of your playing. If you're poised at the pinnacle of playing excellence, then you need those Schoeps/DAV/top level DAC's to capture your playing with ultimate fidelity.

You fall somewhere between those 2 camps.....no ?

Know when to create, when to record, when to destroy (without looking back) ....
I have a bachelors degree and masters degree in guitar performance. Just to get it out of the way, I need to perform more. I really pushed myself during my masters degree and chose the “path less taken” in terms of repertoire and concert programming. That choice paid off but it took a toll on me. I performed less and taught more afterwards. I have two amazing classical guitars which I hope are always slightly beyond my ability.

The simplest answer to your questions would be this: I want to put some new ideas into practice. One is completed. Another more collaborative project has started. Recordings for practical use will need to be made and I’d like to be able to do them with what I have. Professional recordings will be done by professionals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
I had several friends in grad school who recorded themselves as a pedagogical method, who had great success with a method of recording, objectively reflecting, adjusting, repeating. I would suggest a similar approach may help you better understand how the sound you hear in your head while performing compares to what you hear through the mics (it could also help to give you a better idea of what the audience is hearing, as well).
This is a great idea. I think having equally musical ambitious friends to work with would help but the idea is great nonetheless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shosty View Post
To address the issue of over playing and tension in front of mics, I’d say before you start, imagine the physical sensation you had playing your piece when it felt great. Perhaps it was practicing in a room at your house or in a practice room when you felt relaxed.

Take a little time to recall that situation and how it felt - place yourself there, then start.
Also, a great idea.
Old 18th March 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
At a guess I'd say it's probably good to alight upon a miking style and method which pleases you and highlights all your playing strengths as soon a possible...and then adopt it largely as 'formula'...like the Decca Tree for example (I don't recommend the latter, BTW !)

Then you can immediately forget about 'recording method'...it will become routine and insignificant....and you can focus exclusively upon your playing and technique.

The art and skill of recording is analytical and seems to employ quite different parts of the brain than the expressive and artistic side...and I doubt the 2 can coexist at full throttle simultaneously and do justice to both !

So establish confidence early in a recording method...and then give your mind entirely over to the creative and performance aspects..which should be a full time occupation in itself, when you're in the performer's chair.

The recordings will be fine

An example: YouTube

Schoeps CMC6 with MK21 capsules, AB 60cm apart, 90cm high from the ground, 1.2m away from the guitar.

More: YouTube

Last edited by studer58; 18th March 2018 at 01:19 PM..
Old 18th March 2018
  #24
Lives for gear
 

It is important to reflect on the historical development and ramifications of electronic capture in both SR & Recording. 100 years ago all we had was "Big Voice Projection" for speaking & singing: the need to "throw your performance to the back row" extended to instrumental performance as well. Ribbon mics, that came on the scene in the 1920s, not only facilitated recording and early radio but they also had a profound effect on live performance. The ability to sing in a natural voice and develop "touch style" instrumental technique with the greatly expanded sonic expression this electronic assistance afforded opened up a totally new musical and spoken word paradigm. Today, in spite of the exhaustive efforts of most schools of music, big voice projection to the back row protocol is no longer musically relevant. The only reason it is still in existence is the dwindling philanthropic USA patronage and government sponsorship in Europe: it does not now and never has been a viable commercial endeavor: the choice is to master mic technique or exist in a very limited, self indulgent musical world.
Hugh
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump