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Decca Tree Recording Enhancer Plugins
Old 6 days ago
  #61
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esldude's Avatar
 

I like pencil omnis on a jecklin disc. However, often I have gotten what seems like almost a hole in the middle effect. Not a full hole, but almost one. A thought experiment I haven't carried out is moving the omnis a bit further toward the rear of the baffle to clear the middle a bit more, and then use a forward facing card or sub-card at the very front of the baffle. Something of a mini-modified-decca tree idea. Anyone done something like this?
Old 6 days ago
  #62
Gear Head
 
Moke's Avatar
 

That is exactly what I've done here.
I began my own baffled omni experiments back as far as 1985. This was done parallel to, but, totally unaware of, Jurg Jecklins OSS experiments (i didn't learn of him until I got my first computer in the early years of 2k).
I worked my baffled omni experiments throught to about 2003/4 or so, when I first learned of his "technique", which at that point, very closely paralleled my own efforts.
So, i started comparing notes, and, finding questions all through his efforts, as they so strongly contradicted my own 30 years of studies. I started comparing his versus mine, and found that his was far too rigid. So, I went to extremes to try to push the limits of how far you could go, in either direction; going miniature, or, going gigantic, regarding baffle sizes.
I went from using my hand and the DPA 4060 minis as a hand baffle, to a baffle at 4"square for DPA4060's, to one of 15"x15" square for use with LD's.
These baffled omni experiments went on for 30 years, as Head Reference Transfer Function HRTF binaural (see image-3 below), and, as Sennheiser binaural protocol variations, before I dropped a mic over the top at 0º forward-axis, and experimented with omni-dipole w/ directional response as quasi-m/s; and as baffled omni/center mic as quasi-Deccatree.

Width of mics causes more of the mics hearing each other, and, you enter the world of the spurious phase ligaments the more each mic hears the other.
You can counter that and clean things up considerably by abandoning the rigidity of the Jecklin OSS parameters, and, start experimenting. Bringing the mics in closer to the disc face makes substantial changes, moreso than going further back on the disc face.

To those that can't get beyond the omnis being Jecklin omnis. Think out of the box.

1st pic: hand baffle w/ dpa4060
2nd pic: 4" mini baffle for dpa4060 pair
3rd pic: Gude Head rigged as HRTF stereo Senn MKE2002 head and mics mounted 90º counter to Senn. binaural protocol (early baffled omnis, back to 1985)
4th pic: my present 8" small-Baffle for dpa4060 pair
5th and 6th pics: large 15" baffle for LD's and large orchestra
7th pic: 4" mini baffle being tested at loud music concert, against a pair of Schoeps cards above it for control copy.
Attached Thumbnails
Decca Tree Recording-image_115_zpsxfwbuzvn.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-j-disc3.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-img002.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-img026.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-scs_j-disc_sideview.jpg  

Decca Tree Recording-scs_j-disc_behind_conductor.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-minij-discbaffle1.jpg  

Last edited by Moke; 6 days ago at 06:08 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #63
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Moke's Avatar
 

I have a bunch more examples, but the PhotoBucket debacle makes it a challenge to access the images. Check back.

OK,.... 8" BAFFLE for DPA4060 pair
Yep, those are pencil eraser caps, split lengthwise (partially) as mic clips, mounted to a matching diameter wood dowel t-bar. I carry an assortment of these "T-Bars" in varying widths to meet needs.
Attached Thumbnails
Decca Tree Recording-img023.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-img024.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-img025.jpg  

Last edited by Moke; 6 days ago at 07:47 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #64
Gear Head
 
Moke's Avatar
 

@esldude

This is the image set that I was having a difficult time finding.
This is my 8" baffle, w/ DPA4060 minis, and a DPA 4028 sub-card at point, as a mini-tree, with the point mic that you described. I used this a few times in this configuration.

My baffled omni/directional stereo recordings have now gone back to two two channel stereo recordings, that I try to mix, and see what happens. If they mesh, yea. If not, I'm a long long time stereo recordist, and am perfectly happy with two channel stereo. But, I'd digress by taking the thread in that direction.

Oh screw it,... one pic of how I modified my 8" baffle to fit a stereo pair above it, in a timed perpendicular to the source response "timing correct" 4.mic array on a compact bar.
I've also been doing this with my binaural head with the directional pair tucked up tight under the chin. This has been working splendidly. I learned this technique at Dead shows, with an HRTF omni pair in my hair, while covering a directional stereo pair at my chin.

the wheel is turning and you can't slow it down.
Attached Thumbnails
Decca Tree Recording-mini-tree1.jpg.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-mini-tree2.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-dscn3446_zpsens6wtde.jpg  

Last edited by Moke; 6 days ago at 06:21 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #65
When preparing to record a piece, I like to look at how others have approached it. I found these photos of a session recording a piece by Ernesen. Given this thread's focus on the Decca tree, I thought some might find this array interesting (yes, the "double decka" is from one concert- pun intended).
The resultant recording posted on YouTube was very nice.

Needless to say, my array will not be anywhere near as extravagant.
Attached Thumbnails
Decca Tree Recording-ernesen1.jpg   Decca Tree Recording-ernesen2.jpg  
Old 5 days ago
  #66
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esldude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke View Post
@esldude

This is the image set that I was having a difficult time finding.
This is my 8" baffle, w/ DPA4060 minis, and a DPA 4028 sub-card at point, as a mini-tree, with the point mic that you described. I used this a few times in this configuration.

My baffled omni/directional stereo recordings have now gone back to two two channel stereo recordings, that I try to mix, and see what happens. If they mesh, yea. If not, I'm a long long time stereo recordist, and am perfectly happy with two channel stereo. But, I'd digress by taking the thread in that direction.

Oh screw it,... one pic of how I modified my 8" baffle to fit a stereo pair above it, in a timed perpendicular to the source response "timing correct" 4.mic array on a compact bar.
I've also been doing this with my binaural head with the directional pair tucked up tight under the chin. This has been working splendidly. I learned this technique at Dead shows, with an HRTF omni pair in my hair, while covering a directional stereo pair at my chin.

the wheel is turning and you can't slow it down.
Thanks for your posts. Very interesting to me.

I have a done little experimentation using omni's on solid wood blocks. Not my idea exactly. I pinched it from some nature recordists.

MinnesotaSoundscapes.com



This works much better than you might expect. I once recorded a group using the experience from playing with these. It was a hurry up no time to prepare situation. I grabbed a 4x4 about a foot long. Threw it on a wooden floor with a pair of pencil mikes zip tied to the junction between floor and wooden block 2 3/4 inches from the front edge. Something like a PZM effect. Guitar player said, "some genius recordist, just throw some mikes on the floor, I guess I've seen it all now." He wasn't laughing once he heard it. The result was pretty good.

Sorry if this is taking the thread too off topic.
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