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What is your most reliable laptop config for recording Live classical music Digital Converters
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
Gear Addict
 

bwanajim,

Your description/workflow is one which resonates with me; however, I find it daunting.
I would love the flexibility of a Hapi/premium cards setup with the utility of a Nagra VI.
Congratulations on getting your rig up and running
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Any system can fail...UPS power back-up is a must for any system used in live recording.
Yes!

And if you have no more power in your room, the musicians are most of the time also in the dark...

I have one UPS power back-up in the room for the laptop based gear and one for the preamps/microphones. It gives me between 20 to 30mn to clean save and switch off all the gear without stress.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
Bookcamped MBP using XP/Pyramix and RME. Rock solid!
SD702 for backup. Most gig are 8 tracks or less, looking into 788 or Mipre10 to save my back.
Don is your Bootcamped version of XP 32 or 64 bit...wonder if it makes any difference, just for recording an audio stream at a concert anyway (not a very intensive process, even at higher sample rates) ? 64 bit version would allow XP to access more RAM, that's the only advantage perhaps ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #34
Quote:
This is precisely what I always do for OSX. Well, the Windows install went fine, but what I learned is that many Windows program installers (including Pyramix) will install common resources on the C: drive, even if you have specifically chosen to install to another drive, for example E:. My second (sacrosanct, stripped-down Pyramix-only) Windows instance was on drive E:. I told the Pyramix installer to install on that drive, and that's where it put Pyramix. But all the support files went onto C:. And so, Pyramix wouldn't start, giving errors about not finding a bunch of DLLs, etc. I could have gotten into it further, modifying search paths and all, but didn't feel the hassle would be worthwhile. Eventually, I just gave up and created a new user under the primary Windows installation. Hopefully, that will be enough.
This is a classic example of developers not writing their install package correctly. They should use the environment variable that references the system drive. Blame the coders, not the operating system.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
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Gaston69's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
I just want to inform that:

- I have downgraded from MacOS High Sierra to MacOS Sierra
- Installed the very latest version of ANEMAN V1.1.5
- Configured Cisco SG300-10 with "STARTUP CONFIGURATION FILE" provided by Merging
- Clean install Reaper
- Optimized preferences in MacOS as suggested by Merging

So far everything is stable and sounds fantastic.


Cheers

Last edited by Gaston69; 2 weeks ago at 07:37 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
Gear Maniac
HP Elitebook (Win7) with RME UFX (USB) and Samplitude ProX. Rock solid, never had one dropout.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
Gear Addict
In the strictest sense, you’re correct. But the OS architecture does make a difference. In this case, it’s how dependencies are handled. Most OSX apps are self-contained packages that contain all the libraries the app needs to run. That’hs why installing most OSX apps is simply a matter of dragging the package to your applications directory, or to wherever you want it to reside. Windows applications, on the other hand, use the concept of shared libraries, so installers will either install them if they don’t exist or, if they do exist, check to see that the version is at or above what is required. The problem is that an errant installer can make changes to common resources that cause other applications to malfunction or stop running altogether. If you’ve been around Windows long enough, you’ve seen this scenario:

Application A is installed and running correctly. Then you install application B and it too runs correctly. But now when you try to run application A, it crashes, behaves oddly, or some of its functions no longer work. So, you reinstall application A and now both programs work. One likely possibility in this example is that application B’s installer changed a common resource, perhaps errantly installing a deprecated version of some shared component, causing application A to fail. So when you reinstall A, a newer version gets installed, which application B is also able to use and now both A and B are running correctly.

In this example, the fault lies with application B’s installer. But people make mistakes. Whether by it’s nature or just convention, OSX makes scenarios like this far less likely. Windows installers typically scatter files in dozens of different places and they will also write to the Registry - another shared resource. The opportunities for installers to have adverse effects on other applications is significant. When preferences for an OSX app become corrupted, you simply delete the prefs file for that app and it’s gets recreated the next time the app is instantiated. In Windows, an app can make and change entries in dozens of places in the Registry, which is shared by all apps - yet another way for things to go sideways.

In a perfect world, where developers never make mistakes, the shared resource concept is not a problem. But in the real world, the OSX model is simpler and presents less opportunity for one application to affect other apps.

I’ve written my share of Windows install routines, and I prefer the idea of being able to install my app with its own little self-contained world rather than depending on shared resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
This is a classic example of developers not writing their install package correctly. They should use the environment variable that references the system drive. Blame the coders, not the operating system.

Last edited by bwanajim; 2 weeks ago at 09:01 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
Gear Addict
When I first tried to comfigure my Cisco SG300-10 with the Startup confit file from merging, I could not get it to work. Finally, after re-reading the documentation, I realized that I had selected “running configuration file” rather than “startup configuration file”! Now, mine works perfectly.

Good call on sticking with Sierra.

Isn’t Anneman wonderful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaston69 View Post
I just want to inform that:

- I have downgraded from MacOS High Sierra to MacOS Sierra
- Installed the very latest version of ANEMAN V1.1.5
- Configured Cisco SG300-10 with "STARTUP CONFIGURATION FILE" provided by Merging
- Clean install Reaper
- Optimized preferences in MacOS as suggested by Merging

So far everything is stable and sounds fantastic.


Cheers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim View Post
In the strictest sense, you’re correct. But the OS architecture does make a difference. In this case, it’s how dependencies are handled. Most OSX apps are self-contained packages that contain all the libraries the app needs to run. That’hs why installing most OSX apps is simply a matter of dragging the package to your applications directory, or to wherever you want it to reside. Windows applications, on the other hand, use the concept of shared libraries, so installers will either install them if they don’t exist or, if they do exist, check to see that the version is at or above what is required. The problem is that an errant installer can make changes to common resources that cause other applications to malfunction or stop running altogether. If you’ve been around Windows long enough, you’ve seen this scenario:

Application A is installed and running correctly. Then you install application B and it too runs correctly. But now when you try to run application A, it crashes, behaves oddly, or some of its functions no longer work. So, you reinstall application A and now both programs work. One likely possibility in this example is that application B’s installer changed a common resource, perhaps errantly installing a deprecated version of some shared component, causing application A to fail. So when you reinstall A, a newer version gets installed, which application B is also able to use and now both A and B are running correctly.

In this example, the fault lies with application B’s installer. But people make mistakes. Whether by it’s nature or just convention, OSX makes scenarios like this far less likely. Windows installers typically scatter files in dozens of different places and they will also write to the Registry - another shared resource. The opportunities for installers to have adverse effects on other applications is significant. When preferences for an OSX app become corrupted, you simply delete the prefs file for that app and it’s gets recreated the next time the app is instantiated. In Windows, an app can make and change entries in dozens of places in the Registry, which is shared by all apps - yet another way for things to go sideways.

In a perfect world, where developers never make mistakes, the shared resource concept is not a problem. But in the real world, the OSX model is simpler and presents less opportunity for one application to affect other apps.

I’ve written my share of Windows install routines, and I prefer the idea of being able to install my app with its own little self-contained world rather than depending on shared resources.
Eh.... I disagree. I fully agree with the concept of putting your stuff in your own directory. But if you're writing an installer, you either use the environment variables, OR you prompt the user to specify where your stuff goes. In the case you reference, the developers assumed they knew where the OS was running.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim View Post
When I first tried to comfigure my Cisco SG300-10 with the Startup confit file from merging, I could not get it to work. Finally, after re-reading the documentation, I realized that I had selected “running configuration file” rather than “startup configuration file”! Now, mine works perfectly.

Good call on sticking with Sierra.

Isn’t Anneman wonderful?
I appreciate you all making me aware of the Merging config file for the SG300. While it's very basic, it does a good job of setting up multicast, and it gave me some insights on issues I've had with Dante multicast experiments on some other switches.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
Gear Addict
Not quite sure what you disagree with, Tim. I was speaking to the broader issues of incompatibilities between applications that can occur as a purely practical matter in the Windows environment. The scenario I described in my post is not that uncommon. Well, less so for installers that are well written and tested properly. But my point is that the architecture or at least the conventions in the Windows world lead to far more problems of this type than on OSX. Concern about whether one application will coexist with another on the Windows platform is entirely justified, especially relatively complex things like Pro Tools and Pyramix (which, btw, will cost you 2 days of configuring Windows according to Merging’s specification just to get it to run reliably). Seriously, you even have to edit the registry at one point as part of preparing Windows for Pyramix. One wrong move in there and God only knows what entertainment can ensue.


It’s not that uncommon to deploy a commercial app that requires, for example, the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable. So, you write your installer and, like a good citizen, you check to see if they already exist on the system. You check the version. If the version you need is higher, then you replace the existing libraries. If not, you leave them alone and move on. Now your app is installed, it works, and all is well.

Then one day your client calls one day and says that your app won’t run. They tell you that yesterday it was fine, now it just crashes with some message about “DLLs” not found or whatever. So you go down to their office, have a look and learn that the day before, they installed some other random app that just replaced some library or runtime that your app requires.

Typical scenario. I’ve seen it many times. Rare in the OSX environment.

Back at Nokia, Windows was our Corp standard, but my team were all on OSX. I can’t tell you how much time that saved us. I remember once in Helsinki, a colleague was giving a presentation to some board members and all of a sudden his Windows machine started doing mandatory updates that he’d deferred too long. Now, you can say it was his fault for not managing his machine properly. Fair enough. But peoples’ lives shouldn’t have to revolve around managing their OS. My comment to the assembled group was “And that, gentlemen, is why our team is on the Mac...”

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Eh.... I disagree. I fully agree with the concept of putting your stuff in your own directory. But if you're writing an installer, you either use the environment variables, OR you prompt the user to specify where your stuff goes. In the case you reference, the developers assumed they knew where the OS was running.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
Gear Addict
Interesting that you mention this, Tim. Doug and I were planning to do some experiments to explore interoperability between Dante and Ravenna devices via AES67 and I was wondering if the Ravenna configuration for the Cisco switches would work ok with Dante.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I appreciate you all making me aware of the Merging config file for the SG300. While it's very basic, it does a good job of setting up multicast, and it gave me some insights on issues I've had with Dante multicast experiments on some other switches.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim View Post
Interesting that you mention this, Tim. Doug and I were planning to do some experiments to explore interoperability between Dante and Ravenna devices via AES67 and I was wondering if the Ravenna configuration for the Cisco switches would work ok with Dante.
yes, it should. I didn't spot anything in that config that would interfere with Dante discovery or the streaming.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
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tourtelot's Avatar
I go and set my SG300 switches for, sorta, the Gold Standard Dante set up as described by Yamaha; Green Internet, QoS, and more that I can't remember right now.

But it also seems to me that if I am running even 32 audio paths, the most basic out-of-the-box set up in a closed network would work fine. I set the switches up to "the nines" because I can, not because I probably need to.

I guess what I am saying is that, in a closed network, I worry about network problems unnecessarily.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
Yes. You do. So do I. I'm sitting here worrying about 70 mbps of unicast traffic on a gigabit switch, just because it's cooler to convert that to 20 mbps of multicast.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
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tourtelot's Avatar
Hey, and something related to this discussion but a little OT. I just found out that I can pipe my Grace m108 preamps into my iPad and a recording app called Auria ($50, looks like some giant SSL panel on the screen ) via USB and a Lightening to USB dongle, and it actually records, SMH.

Pretty sure that I would never use this set up in anger but even playing around with it, I was wondering if someone made a Lightening adapter (that functioned like the Apple branded one) that folds back 180* on itself so that it could be secured to the iPad (tape, velcro, epoxy glue) so that it would NEVER come loose. The Apple dongle has a USB port and a Lightening port so that the charger can be kept in place during the recording.

A company called Leef makes memory dongles that fold back and some have USB male plugs. I'd love one with a USB female and a lightening but I don't think they exist. Other good methods of securing the Lightening cable would also be welcome.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #47
Gear Addict
I don’t really think you need to worry too much about the Lightening connector. It’s actually a more physically secure connection than Thunderbolt 2, which I’ve had problems with in the field.

I don’t see why you wouldn’t go ahead and try a recording on Auria with one of your m108s. Just take the aes or direct outs to your 788 for backup. That’d be a sweet little 8 track remote system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Hey, and something related to this discussion but a little OT. I just found out that I can pipe my Grace m108 preamps into my iPad and a recording app called Auria ($50, looks like some giant SSL panel on the screen ) via USB and a Lightening to USB dongle, and it actually records, SMH.

Pretty sure that I would never use this set up in anger but even playing around with it, I was wondering if someone made a Lightening adapter (that functioned like the Apple branded one) that folds back 180* on itself so that it could be secured to the iPad (tape, velcro, epoxy glue) so that it would NEVER come loose. The Apple dongle has a USB port and a Lightening port so that the charger can be kept in place during the recording.

A company called Leef makes memory dongles that fold back and some have USB male plugs. I'd love one with a USB female and a lightening but I don't think they exist. Other good methods of securing the Lightening cable would also be welcome.

D.

Last edited by bwanajim; 1 week ago at 06:00 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #48
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tourtelot's Avatar
Not to carry this too far off the original topic but why would I lug the iPad and the m108 out to a location if I was going "small?" The best thing about the Sound Devices 788T is that it does everything so well in such a small package. Great preamps (which I use now for almost every recording I make including the highest end clients), great converters, almost legendary reliability, battery power, M/S decoding, great sounding limiters. I still say that it is, far and away, a true desert island machine.

Anyone who is unfamiliar with these boxes, you are in great good fortune. Sound Devices has brought out a slew of new recorder/mixers aimed at the production "bag mixer" guys which has put a lot of 788T units on the used market at (sometimes) rock bottom prices. My belief is that every professional location music recordist should have one of these. Jump on it guys.

D.

Okay I usually DO carry a backup of some kind. Just a plug (sorry!) for a great recorder and I still wouldn't trust a lightening connector as far as I could throw it. I am finding some metal POS "frames" for the iPad that have a cord-pull protector built in. They are more bulky than I'd like but I am thinking that I can fashion something similar out of some thin steel in the shop and then (gasp!) g-tape it to the back of the iPad. How delightfully UN-professional. :(
Old 1 week ago
  #49
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Don is your Bootcamped version of XP 32 or 64 bit...wonder if it makes any difference, just for recording an audio stream at a concert anyway (not a very intensive process, even at higher sample rates) ? 64 bit version would allow XP to access more RAM, that's the only advantage perhaps ?
PM sent!
Old 1 week ago
  #50
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaston69 View Post
What is/was your most reliable computer based configuration for recording Live concerts (24bit 96kHz, multitrack).
Last 3 years or so my mobile setup is:
Macbook Pro 13 inch as a main system running Sequoia (Win 10);
Macbook Pro 17 inch as a backup running Boom Recorder (High Sierra);
connected by Dante thru Cisco SG300.

No complaints so far.

Best,
Norm
Old 1 week ago
  #51
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

I'm still using:
  • Mac Powerbook 12" (2005) w. OS 10.6
  • Metric Halo ULN-2
  • La Cie Rugged Portable HD
As this amazingly robust set-up just keeps working and working I see no reason to change it.

And the advantage of leaving a prehistoric brick of a laptop on your table is you can go and get a drink without worrying anyone's going to half-inch it!
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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tourtelot's Avatar
FWIW, my Dante rig worked flawlessly this weekend; nine inputs plus a scratch mix to my new JoeCo BBR64-Dante and backed up to a Pro Tools session on a MBP. Both made trouble-free recordings.

Lappy was hooked up to the network with a Cat5e Ethernet cable which I (at least) think is a more robust connection than a Lightening, Firewire or USB friction-fit connector. But I'm old school.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #53
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Lappy was hooked up to the network with a Cat5e Ethernet cable which I (at least) think is a more robust connection than a Lightening, Firewire or USB friction-fit connector. But I'm old school..
Being even more old school, I must annoyingly point out that it's spelled "lightning," not "lightening."

And to correct another common typo on these forums (not in your post, don't worry), it's Schoeps, not Schopes.

</end>pedantry</>
Old 1 week ago
  #54
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Fair enough,

Though I wouldn't be too complacent with the ticking time bomb that is battery power. I've had plenty of issues with that as well. Some recordings last far too long for batteries, many audio recorders using AA only last a couple hours at most. As far at Li Batteries, more than once I have had a camera tell me it had 5 hours on the fully charged battery and afterward I found out it lasted only 1. The battery wasn't even old. I plug in everything now, even with a battery inside as last resort failsafe. I use a UPS battery backup for my laptop and interface, but that has failed once as well during the aforementioned power surge. Personally, I just do not trust battery power unless it is a non-critical recording that can be redone. Of course, you should be proactive and replace batteries on a regular basis even it they are not showing signs of depletion. There is no 100% safe method.
Just my experience.
I suppose the use of batteries is impacted by the device being powered. With 788Ts, using batteries can be very safe as two can be hooked in a the same time.

I use only battery power for convenience, eliminating hassles of cords going to an outlet (and the peeps who like to trip over such things), not worrying about the condition of the power, and for robustness.

I have an NP battery hooked into the power input (hirose jack). And I have a large capacity Sony L battery also plugged in on the back of the 788T. I have extra, fully charged, NP and L batteries in my bag. NPs last a long time and are difficult to burn through in one session. I think I've only burned through an NP battery once at a very long jazz fest. If I somehow manage to burn through an NP battery, the fully charged L battery automatically kicks on, and it can run for quite some time. Giving me plenty of time to swap out the NP with another NP.

I've never had a battery problem running with this setup and it's been liberating to not have to deal with plugging into a wall. Also - not much to carry as the NP and L's easily fit in the Petrol bag I use for the 788T.

-Tom
Old 1 week ago
  #55
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
Being even more old school, I must annoyingly point out that it's spelled "lightning," not "lightening."

And to correct another common typo on these forums (not in your post, don't worry), it's Schoeps, not Schopes.

</end>pedantry</>
Point taken. Thanks.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
...I just found out that I can pipe my Grace m108 preamps into my iPad and a recording app called Auria ($50, looks like some giant SSL panel on the screen ) via USB and a Lightening to USB dongle, and it actually records, SMH.

...The Apple dongle has a USB port and a Lightening port so that the charger can be kept in place during the recording.
Is this the adapter you're using between the Grace and the ipad?

Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter - Apple
Old 4 days ago
  #57
Gear Head
 
Simmosonic's Avatar
 

On the topic of connectors (Firewire, USB, Thunderbolt, whatever), one thing I have always done is tape a short length of gaffer tape to the underside of the laptop, immediately beneath the socket, with an inch or two protruding out the side with the sticky side facing up. After the interface cable is plugged in, I pull the tape up from underneath and stick it to the connector, usually folding it up around the sides to make sure that connector is not going to get pulled out if someone moves something the wrong way, slides something across the workspace, whatever. That’s standard procedure for me when working with laptops and interfaces - along with all the usual precautions regarding screen savers, power saving modes, etc.
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