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Live Orchestra w/organ (CLIP)
Old 12th February 2004
  #1
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Live Orchestra w/organ (CLIP)

I recently did a gig with a local orchestra at a church and thought I'd share a small sample. It was a real low key kind of job...not for broadcast or anything, just for the members to listen to. But I've done a lot of work with them before, so I didn't mind doing it.

Anyway, it was in a church with pretty good acoustics. The clip I have posted is a movement from an organ concerto with about a 24 piece orchestra. The rest of the concert also had a huge choir and other orchestral parts. Here's the link to the sound clip:

http://www.braidstreammusic.com/asoclip.wav
Its 16bit stereo 44.1Khz, uncompressed, and about 18Mb (1:46). Sorry for the size, but I thought it would be pointless to post a compressed clip with aliasing and such.

Unfortunately, I didn't get any pics for you...sorry. From now on I will heh. The setup was basically a stereo pair of KM184s in ORTF, combined with a matched pair of Earthworks QTC1's (omni) as outriggers to help with bringing out more of the natural acoustics, as well as better bass translation. The placement possibilties were also fairly limited, since it was a live performance, and churches sometimes aren't the best set up for recording.

The mics were running through my digimax preamp to a Mackie hard disk recorder. Again, a really simple setup with average quality gear. But for the purposes, I didn't need to bring anything more elaborate.

As far as mixing. I only balanced the 2 sets of mics, and added a hair of eq in the mid lows. Then I put a touch of compression using the UAD LA2A. There is no reverb, and the eq was probably no more than 2-3db reduction in the low mids. I try to use as little as possible for these types of situations. Of course I also dithered from 24 bit to 16.

Keep in mind this is by no means a masterpiece recording, but I thought it would be fun to post a little something, since I have discussed that mic technique in this forum before.
Old 17th February 2004
  #2
Ari
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Hey AdamONE !!

Thanks for sharing. Music and recording are so beautiful !

Can you talk a bit more about mic placement ? I'm using QTC1s and waiting for the KM 184s for the same application.

Best

Ari
Old 18th February 2004
  #3
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Thanks Ari.

Basically the mic placement was this: The KM184's in ORTF about 12-14 feet high, and about 6-10 feet away from the orchestra. The mics are angled slightly down pointed towards the orchestra. The QTC-1's were placed about the same height, maybe slightly lower, and about 5-6 feet away from the orchestra, also angled slightly down. They were placed about 2/3 distance between the KM184s (center) and the far edge of the orchestra. My experience with the QTC-1s are that you have to come a little closer in than even another omni mic. It can take some getting used to, but when you figure it out, it sounds great!

These distances were pretty much dictated by the stage size and space availability of the church. I will usually try different distances to experiment with the acoustics, but in this case, there was little option for me to move around.

Hope that helped.
Adam
Old 18th February 2004
  #4
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Sounds beautiful


a good reminder that well written and well arranged music records well, with few tricks needed.

-sm
Old 19th February 2004
  #5
Ari
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Helped big time Adam, thank you very much. If you don't mind,what type of mic stands are you using for that high operation? And do you use chock mounts on the QTC1s?

Best

Ari

thumbsup
Old 19th February 2004
  #6
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For this, I ended up using a few Quik-Lok stands. I think the model is A-50. They are pretty versatile and inexpensive. However, there are many options available for tall stands. One option I have used before is photography stands with a thread adapter.

As for the QTC-1s, they are internally shock mounted. I must say very well too.
Old 19th February 2004
  #7
Ari
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdamONE
For this, I ended up using a few Quik-Lok stands. I think the model is A-50. They are pretty versatile and inexpensive. However, there are many options available for tall stands. One option I have used before is photography stands with a thread adapter.

As for the QTC-1s, they are internally shock mounted. I must say very well too.
Hey Adam !!!

Photography stands is a good idea !! About the QTC1s, I was not believing their internal shock mounts. This thing goes to 4 Hz !!! Good you thrust then...

Once again, thanks for all your help !!

Best regards.
Ari
Old 19th February 2004
  #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ari
About the QTC1s, I was not believing their internal shock mounts. This thing goes to 4 Hz !!!
They do have an amazing low end. You won't pick up the vibration from say the floor, but in most situations, you might need to roll off some low end because of air conditioning, etc.

Good luck!
Adam
Old 20th February 2004
  #9
Ari
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdamONE
They do have an amazing low end. You won't pick up the vibration from say the floor, but in most situations, you might need to roll off some low end because of air conditioning, etc.

Good luck!
Adam
Ditto, Adam !

Thanks for the tip !

I will record tomorrow a string quintet. It is a "learning section" for me. They will show at Benedictine Monastery but the record is not a "formal" one. I will let you know.

Best

Ari
Old 20th February 2004
  #10
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Cool, I look forward to hearing how it goes!

Adam
Old 22nd February 2004
  #11
Ari
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Hey Adam !!

First of all, I want thank you for helping me and taking your time with my "amateur" experimentations...


It was a hell of experience !!

My recording gear is low, very low end:

a) Boss BR1180CD recorder ("bedroom recorder")

b) As 1180 is a 2 input only, I used a Yamaha MG series mixer so I could use 2 QTC1s and 2 KM 184 ( I got this MG series based on some opinions here.

c) 2 QTC1 and 2 KM 184

d) A good power conditioner

c) Regular mic cables

The presentation:

Weber Clarinet Concert

> Viola Prof. Thurzó Sándor József
> Clarinete: Felix Alonso
> Cello: Thiago Vilela
> Violinos: Karla Oliveto, Zoltan Paulinyi

Km184 in ORTF
QTC1s spaced

I never heard my BOSS sound so good. The Earthworks are soooo good on the low end and the KM184 brings the flavor of the mid range. And then, the QTC1s again, brings all the top end. That was my feeling.

Well, it shows me that classic recording is a lot of fun and I will put together a nice setup is some steps a $oon a$ I can...

Step 1) Alesis Masterlink 9600, ATI 8MX2 mixer and some time to learn...

Step 2) Genex, Millennia and some Schoeps in addition to the QTC1s and KM 184, at the time I can do it.

A note: I'm positively surprised on how the little Yamaha MG12/4 sound. It's mic pres are very clean and quiet. Almost like my Venice that is on tour now.

I had some problems with the clarinet. It always sounded louder than I wanted. I tried some mic positioning and got it almost right. Almost...

Well Adam, thanks once again for your patience...

Have a good one!

Ari
Old 24th February 2004
  #12
Ari
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MasterLink ML 9600 ordered !! Next, ATI 8MX2 mixer.
Old 24th February 2004
  #13
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Cool, glad to know things went well. Congrats on the Masterlink. I've been thinking about getting one too, but have put it off for a long time heh.

Adam
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