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New Sound Devices recorders! Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 1 week ago
  #391
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Originally Posted by rojaros View Post
Well, Line Audio is very small, but whether their housing allows for entering directly into the XLR female of the SD Micpre3 I'm not sure. Nor am I sure it would have been possible with the Silver bullets, as little as they are.

Another issue is, that even if you use omnis, unless they are really killer microphones, the will have pretty much of coloration, so having them sticking out to the side might not offer the greatest possible sound. Maybe with some side addressed SDC omnis like Shure Beta 181/O? Or even with other capsules, if you're not limited to omnis.

If they cant go directly into an xlr, you could also think of using Fethead Phantom, they should fit directly into the XLR female.

All things to be considered. Certainly not such a cheap solution as the Silver Bullets would have been (BTW the Silver Bullets are said to bee on the bright side, so using them side addressed could accidentally tame that problem )
yes those line audio om1 look like the right sort of thing - anything bigger than that (ie adding a fethead etc) and I might as well just use a pair of ev635a, which do generally stick into a socket just fine, but with size i'd be more wary of the sideways stresses they might cause.

I hear you on the 90degrees off-axis thing... not sure how best to get around that, I think I'm prioritising sturdiness and compactness at this point over absolute quality.. if I want to use proper mics for more formal recording then cables won't be an issue.. this would be for my 'always ready' grab-and-press-record setup... (a bit like how my camera always has the basic waetherproof 18-55 on it even though I have far better lenses for specific jobs..)

I'll see what LineAudio folks say about sticking their mic in a socket. Anyone else tried it? @jpgerard any idea if they fit? how's 90degreee response?


edit... aha or there's this: microphones

or even built into a right angled XLR for proper Horns... might have to think about clearing the casing tho... DIY Electret - Do It Yourself - JWSOUNDGROUP

Last edited by mutetourettes; 1 week ago at 12:36 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #392
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jpgerard's Avatar
The OM1 housing thickness around the XLR pins won't allow for direct installation in most female XLR chassis connectors, if that's what you mean. Not sure how practical it would be anyway as the use would be limited to Mono anyway, unless a disc could be slid in between two mics? Am I seeing this properly? Maybe a sketch or photo would be better... OM1's are very well behaved off axis, with the usual unavoidable drop in treble as you move away from 0°. At least it's clean and predictable.
Old 1 week ago
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard View Post
The OM1 housing thickness around the XLR pins won't allow for direct installation in most female XLR chassis connectors, if that's what you mean. Not sure how practical it would be anyway as the use would be limited to Mono anyway, unless a disc could be slid in between two mics? Am I seeing this properly? Maybe a sketch or photo would be better... OM1's are very well behaved off axis, with the usual unavoidable drop in treble as you move away from 0°. At least it's clean and predictable.
thanks for taking the trouble to reply - too bad about not fitting in the socket..

the mixpre has mic inputs on both ends, so it wouldn't be exactly mono, they'd be spaced apart and pointing opposite ways..
Old 1 week ago
  #394
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
I would think that any of the Naiant mics with bodies based on Neutrik XX series connectors would work just fine jacked into the sides of a MixPre 3.
Old 1 week ago
  #395
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Thanks Jim - good suggestion - I think only the MSH-1 looks tough enough, but they don't make that any more.... so... diy?
Old 1 week ago
  #396
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
Thanks Jim - good suggestion - I think only the MSH-1 looks tough enough, but they don't make that any more.... so... diy?
I have some of their X-O omni mics, which are listed as "Discontinued", and they are essentially just built in a Neutrik connector with the omni capsule located where the cable would exit. The new ones appear to have interchangeable capsules by means of an RCA connection but I believe all Naiant mics are built to order, so maybe contact Jon O'Neill and see if he can make what you need?

Edit: I just noticed that Naiant doesn't seem to ship to the UK?
Old 1 week ago
  #397
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FWIW there is a new update coming, which will allow external controllers and binaural recording updates......
Old 1 week ago
  #398
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jpgerard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
thanks for taking the trouble to reply - too bad about not fitting in the socket..

the mixpre has mic inputs on both ends, so it wouldn't be exactly mono, they'd be spaced apart and pointing opposite ways..
Depends on the actual sockets but on those I've tried it's too tight to fit.
Old 1 week ago
  #399
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
thanks for taking the trouble to reply - too bad about not fitting in the socket..

the mixpre has mic inputs on both ends, so it wouldn't be exactly mono, they'd be spaced apart and pointing opposite ways..
This is not really a problem, as all you have to do is to get a couple of (Neutrik or Switchcraft) XLR male to female barrels wired straight through - so you plug the barrel minto the recorder and the mic. on the other end.
Old 1 week ago
  #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
This is not really a problem, as all you have to do is to get a couple of (Neutrik or Switchcraft) XLR male to female barrels wired straight through - so you plug the barrel minto the recorder and the mic. on the other end.
I had thought the same about adapters, but I'm struggling a little to wonder why stick mics direct into the recorder, especially if the necessary adapters make them project even further? It seems unwieldy for an upmarket version of a handy portable recorder; there would be a lot of leverage on the XLR sockets; some sort of stand still seems necessary for decent recordings (which seems little easier - and a lot less flexible - than mics on a stand/boom and the recorder in a bag); the operator would be placed adjacent to the mics (which are omni mics too, ready to pick up breathing, stomach gurgles, note-taking etc.); any control of the recorder (e.g. soloing a channel, adjusting headphone levels) is likely to be picked up by the mics; and for outside use, this would lack wind protection (unless adding Baby Ball gags for an increasingly unwieldy set up).

I'm all for minimizing kit - part of the reason why I have a Mixpre-3 - but I can't say I am remotely tempted to use it like this. Doubtless I am missing something!

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago
  #401
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rojaros's Avatar
I just checked it with Line Audio CM3. It doesn't fit the xlr inputs of my mixpre-6. But the AKG C451 (here with knees and CK22 true omni capsules) do fit, so you could make an AB (40cm width) config like this...

Or use this one: Neutrik NA3 FM – Musikhaus Thomann and stick Line Audio OM3

see Line Audio - Swedish Made High Quality Audio Products - Available at NoHype Audio

I wouldn't use the CM3 because of the side addressing but maybe it would suite your needs... Maybe there are angled adapters to be had?
Attached Thumbnails
New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7708.jpg  

Last edited by rojaros; 1 week ago at 07:54 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #402
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rojaros's Avatar
Here we go: a right angle xlr male to female adapter:

lyxpro XLR LEFT RIGHT L ANGLE (ADJUSTABLE) MALE TO FEMALE ADAPTER ADAPTOR | eBay

Unfortunately the way things are set up it would show upwards on the Mixpre. Maybe one could rework that... so it seems:

LyxPro XLR Angle Adapter Male & Female can be positioned to 4 different angles 840102187700 | eBay

unfortunately doesn't ship to Germany.
Old 1 week ago
  #403
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rojaros's Avatar
Here you can find some casual recordings with the SD Mixpre6 and a pair of AKG C451/CK22 Omnis in different positions. Recording done outside my hose, so there is a lot of ambient noise of the life around.

01 Capsules with knees up
02 Capsules with knees down
03 Capsules with knees forward
04 Capsules with no knees pointing to the sides
05 as 04 but done parallel to
06 Superlux ORTF

Dropbox - 2018_10_14_Mictest_AKG_NoCables - Simplify your life

The pics show the mics with knees and the setup for the last two recordings
Attached Thumbnails
New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7710.jpg   New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7717.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #404
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Hi all - thankyou for indulging my slightly offtopic train of enquiry re sticking mics into the mixpre. @rojaros especially thanks for taking the time to try with 451s/knees and making those beautiful recordings!
@norfolksoundman9 the use-case isn't a formal recording setup where I'd set up something proper. It's indoor, around the house, just grab and record in a few seconds wherever something musical/hilarious is happening. basically a bigger version of one of those little dictaphone-type machines like zoom etc. I'm wondering here if a mixpre can do that duty as well as more formal high quality work, by having some 'built-in' mics (well, not built-in, but stuck in). For this quality of recording is secondary to small formfactor and sturdiness. (Actually I suppose even a mono recording with just one mic might be acceptable, with half as much risk to the mixpre's sockets)

Obviously in more careful circumstances both recorder and mics could be used much more optimally..

As has been pointed out, the bigger the mic, or mic+adapter, the more stresses that would put on the mixpre and I wouldn't be too happy going that way in this scenario (grab anytime around the house).

So I had an email from the Little Blondie folks suggesting that they'd fit fine (and I think they're even smaller than the OM1) but I'm not entirely sure they understood my hairbrained scheme - anyone got a little blondie can confirm they fit in a normal socket?
Old 1 week ago
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson View Post
I've used it "in battle" a couple of times. My preliminary thoughts:

Would be nice to not always record the L-R mix. If there's a way to disarm this, I've not figured it out.

Similarly, I'd like the option of recording individual mono files instead of multi-channel .wav.

I'll admit, I've not done an exhaustive search of the manual, so maybe it's possible - but not intuitive.

The mic pre's are ok. The converters do not hold a candle to the Mytek, but the analog electronics are an order of magnitude quieter than DR-680. It's a very useable box - especially for boom work, but adequate for music capture.
That was really a great comparison! What Mytek converter is it? Just curious. I wish the MixPre had a digital in. That would make it very flexible since conversion seems great and punchy, but there is a dimension that a primo converter seems to impart. For my needs the SD unit is great, but one can always lust for real sluttiness!.....
Old 1 week ago
  #406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
That was really a great comparison! What Mytek converter is it? Just curious. I wish the MixPre had a digital in. That would make it very flexible since conversion seems great and punchy, but there is a dimension that a primo converter seems to impart. For my needs the SD unit is great, but one can always lust for real sluttiness!.....
Stereo96ADC.

Figured out the L-R thing too, as well as the MS monitoring situation. Very pleased with this little box for the price.
Old 1 week ago
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson View Post
Stereo96ADC.

Figured out the L-R thing too, as well as the MS monitoring situation. Very pleased with this little box for the price.
I thought that might be the case! Very reasonable price seems like. I think I've made every mistake one can trying to learn the MixPre6M since using it to replace an old Korg D-12. Was using a Finalizer and going in digital, which sounded pretty good. The Mix Pre sounds chunkier and solid for lack of a better word. Very punchy sound.

It's been a bit of a challenge and told SD support (which is excellent!), they need to do a "series for dummies". It is kinda an intuitive machine, but certain curve balls totally stumped me (GS was a huge help!). The manual is sparse and videos aren't really that good since they don't cover how to actually swap files, record thru all 12 tracks, etc.

I hope the controllers will make working with cue points easy, particularly the Wingman app. I hope they don't go crazy trying to be all things to all people with on board effects. Digital in would be huge and easy access to what's there is a big deal. Fast forwarding and functions that are controlled thru the headphone knob. Clever work arounds currently, but could be so much easier with the controller if you are actually trying to run a session. It is very very close! If I can control properly with my iphone/pad that will be fantastic. I can buy an L-Mount sled and batteries to be truly mobile.

I'm very, very happy with the unit, I can't believe the sound and size of the recorder. The screen is simply amazing and if the controllers allow good transport, metering, and cue point control, it will be the studio quality stand alone it's trying to be, and I'd imaging a serious interface solution. They already have the film market sewn up as that's all I see on sets. Impressive!
Old 1 week ago
  #408
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rojaros's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post

As has been pointed out, the bigger the mic, or mic+adapter, the more stresses that would put on the mixpre and I wouldn't be too happy going that way in this scenario (grab anytime around the house).

So I had an email from the Little Blondie folks suggesting that they'd fit fine (and I think they're even smaller than the OM1) but I'm not entirely sure they understood my hairbrained scheme - anyone got a little blondie can confirm they fit in a normal socket?
You are welcome!
I had a little exchange with Naiant, and their X-R mics with interchangeable capsules with be especially suitable; they fit directly into the XLR sockets. An especially versatile combo would be the side-addressed cardiod with the right angle adopters. This way you could even change the angle of the cardioids to realize kind of ORTF-ish configs.
This is around 130 US$ per piece; not sent to Europe, just USA and a few other countries. So a pair would be still cheaper than a pair of little blondies (with no specs published on their homepage) and much more versatile, given that you could also order a pair of omnis.

I tried to look carefully at the pics of the little blondies, and it seems to me they are of bigger diameter than the xlr plugs, so I doubt they will really fit into the xlr female plug.

check also ot these ones:
Red12 | Omni Microphone

PS personally I think that the simplest solution, especially given that you're not after the ultimate quality sound, would be to use the Superlux ORTF stereo mic S502 (the Schoeps copy). It's not half bad, probably better than all the little mics you could stick directly into the Mixpre; gives a very resonably good sound and if you use some kind of Velcro you could attach it to the mixpre without the danger of ripping out the xlr sockets or breaking the mics, just have the cables go into the sockets on the same side ... You could even use the little screw inside the Mixpre to attach a mount to the mixpre...
Old 1 week ago
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojaros View Post
You are welcome!
I had a little exchange with Naiant, and their X-R mics with interchangeable capsules with be especially suitable; they fit directly into the XLR sockets. An especially versatile combo would be the side-addressed cardiod with the right angle adopters. This way you could even change the angle of the cardioids to realize kind of ORTF-ish configs.
This is around 130 US$ per piece; not sent to Europe, just USA and a few other countries. So a pair would be still cheaper than a pair of little blondies (with no specs published on their homepage) and much more versatile, given that you could also order a pair of omnis.

I tried to look carefully at the pics of the little blondies, and it seems to me they are of bigger diameter than the xlr plugs, so I doubt they will really fit into the xlr female plug.

check also ot these ones:
Red12 | Omni Microphone
Be careful people don't think you're carrying an explosive device with a shotgun shell attached to it! Cool mics and was thinking of those......
Old 1 week ago
  #410
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rojaros's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Be careful people don't think you're carrying an explosive device with a shotgun shell attached to it! Cool mics and was thinking of those......
LOL
I just contacted the maker and that is what he wrote back (after 2 minutes!!! - boy, that's service)

"Hey Robert,


I don't currently have any Omnis that would fit, due to the shotgunshell shroud. However, I would be happy to create a custom omni encased solely in a Male XLR cable connector for you!

Just let me know what you had in mind!

Brad Martin
12GaugeMicrophones.com
Facebook.com/12GaugeMicrophones
Instagram.com/12GaugeMicrophones
Twitter.com/12GaugeMics
"

Maybe it's worth trying. They seem to sound quite alright, and just having two XLR plusg to stick into the side (possibly even angled...) ... quite a cool idea.

best
Robert
Old 1 week ago
  #411
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rojaros's Avatar
While I'm still in the process of figuring out what 12 Guage Microphones can do for this kind of application, I was so inspired by the whole idea of using the Mixpre in a simple casual way that I tried several more setups.

One is using two AKG with knees and CK1 cardioids angled 90° apart in a distance approx. 20 cm (capsule center to center), so a kind of NOS-ish config. This is the one I'd try to get made from 12 Gauge, because it promises the best results with the given distance when working without cables. So the recording was done to get a feel for the stereo image of this config (at least a bit, as I play only the guitar, but you get to hear the space).

This is the recording #07 in the dropbox above.

Then I also tried the Superlux in a way that is a little less sloppy than two days ago, attached to the Mixpre via Camera screw. (Recording #08 )

Then I also found out that my MBHOs 603 fit directly into the XLR sockets, so that lent itself to try a simple MS setup without cables (Recording #09 )

All these recordings are totally unworked on apart from mixing down to 44.1/16 and MS-Matrix (HOFA) on #09 . All played very casually, and with a lot of ambient noise (0n the last three inside the house this time, but you hear the fridge humming along...)

The Superlux thing would involve very short cables but it is still easy to hadle.

The MBHO doesn't involve cables at all, is very easy to handle and and gives you the possibility to use the MS capability of he Mixpre3/6/10
Attached Thumbnails
New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7723.jpg   New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7726.jpg   New Sound Devices recorders!-img_7724.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojaros View Post
While I'm still in the process of figuring out what 12 Guage Microphones can do for this kind of application, I was so inspired by the whole idea of using the Mixpre in a simple casual way that I tried several more setups.
Haha great! glad to have someone else interested in this kind of scheme! I look forward to hearing if Brad's 12Gauge comes in at a good price.. I'll have to look into those.

It looked as if the old (gold/silver) little blondies were just built into an xlr shell too..
Old 1 week ago
  #413
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rojaros's Avatar
In case you wondered about the bad quality of the MBHO: I had confused the channels, sory.

As you can see on the MS pic above the side mic is under the mid mic. It should have been other way round for proper matrixing. (First pic below; the second is the MS with AKG mid)

You can now listen to the proper recording, still #09 .
#10 is also MS (-5.4dB Side) but with AKG C451 CK1 mid mic.
#11 ia MS (same volumes) with both MBHOs for verification.

Because I just got them today and had everything set up, I added #12 recorded in proper NOS (90°, 30cm spacing) with the pair of matched 3U Warbler 127 C-Flat that just came before an hour or so. I think these are pretty amazing mics. Of course need to check them out more. (But this is a digression)
Attached Thumbnails
New Sound Devices recorders!-img_1238.jpg   New Sound Devices recorders!-img_5465.jpg  
Old 6 days ago
  #414
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rojaros's Avatar
As to the 12 Guage microphones, I got the answer that making a cardiod pair with that angling is just too complicated and expensive. We're still at the AB omni version. I'll share the information when I have it.
Old 2 days ago
  #415
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Here's AES in NY news of a new 3.0 firmware update coming for MixPre which will: allow use of Sennheiser Ambeo, allow use of 3rd party (cheap !) controllers, extended pre-roll etc among other things: YouTube

I don't know if this is old news or still upcoming ?
Old 2 days ago
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I don't know if this is old news or still upcoming ?
Both! Announced weeks ago and we are still awaiting its release.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 2 days ago
  #417
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I hope the Wingman will add cue markers and have transport controls. That would be huge.
Old 1 day ago
  #418
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rojaros's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojaros View Post
As to the 12 Guage microphones, I got the answer that making a cardiod pair with that angling is just too complicated and expensive. We're still at the AB omni version. I'll share the information when I have it.
I ordered a pair of omnis built into a Neutrik 90° connector with adjustable angle, so that one can make them point forward are anything else (up, down, 45° ... to your pleasure)...

I'll keep you posted when I have them.
Old 1 day ago
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojaros View Post
I ordered a pair of omnis built into a Neutrik 90° connector with adjustable angle, so that one can make them point forward are anything else (up, down, 45° ... to your pleasure)...

I'll keep you posted when I have them.
Horns!
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