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Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S Condenser Microphones
Old 12th April 2017
  #31
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
That sounds really nice. How did you arrive at the mic stand position?
I got the ribbons to reduce the room signature and experiment with mid-side.

The stand position avoids reflections off the lid and some of the extreme left to right wandering of individual notes, particularly where the bass strings cross the tenor/mid. The treble is favored, but balances well without being too close. I did widen the sides slightly.

I used a little more distant, but similar placement for ab omnis in this recording of Summerland on YouTube.

Bazile
Old 12th April 2017
  #32
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
My question is why M/S and not Blumlein?
I have found that sweet spots can be a matter of an inch or two in height. The mid can take that place and the sides don't matter so much. With Blumlein there would be about 5-6" difference in vertical placement.

So I am just starting with M/S. Will try both at a greater distance. Just getting started with this.

Bazile
Old 13th April 2017
  #33
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
From the picture, seems like a (more or less) likely position for the pair. My question is why M/S and not Blumlein?

Oh and sandy. The Samar better show it's good side. A lot of money to pay if it only sounds like a Rode (just sayin )

I am trying it this weekend on chamber music in a good room. We shall see.

D.
Doug, I hope it works its magic for you. Earcatcher thinks it sounds good and he is critical of what works and what does not. I sent him some rehearsal tracks of the local chorale.

I hope to get out to record a bluegrass group on Thursday night that is semi-pro and were good the last time I heard them. They are missing their Dobro player who was very good but died suddenly. I cannot mic from in front so I will come in over the group and face the mic into them from maybe 7 or 8 feet high. I will use gaffer tape to hold the mic in place. I like the mic because it sounds good, to me, and is not overburdened with "color". I like the Schoeps philosophy that to get accurate sound is first, color can be added later. But if you start with a mic with a lot of color you just can't take it out.
Old 13th April 2017
  #34
Lives for gear
Here's a promising new stereo ribbon, remote controllable mic from Poland, with inbuilt mic preamps...line level output: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayrX2yrCGU8

More data and prices, pictures here: http://www.hum-audio.com/
Old 14th April 2017
  #35
Lives for gear
The choral possibilities of the NTR:

Session Notes: Winchester College Quiristers |
Old 7th May 2017
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanneau View Post
Two Manfrotto mic bars. Recording of piano tuner friend. First part of recording is una corda, hence the darkness at beginning.
Nice job, blannau…I just picked up the NTRs last week & started working with them today. I studied your implementation & I see you disassembled and reversed the two main parts of the RM2 microphone mount in order to keep the cushioned side of the RM2 against the mic body & make this work.

Yes, I own the AEA N8 phantom ribbons and they are probably a little easier to work with using the custom accessory AEA stereo mount. And the R88mk2 passive ribbon is easier yet. But GAS hit & I've been wanting to try these NTRs!

Thanks, all.
Old 8th May 2017
  #37
Gear Head
Yes, I took the screw out and flipped the mount. Thx. Bazile
Old 11th May 2017
  #38
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jnorman's Avatar
Studer - yikes! That hum is huge!
Old 11th May 2017
  #39
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boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Studer - yikes! That hum is huge!
Ten years in Pun Prison for you, James!
Old 12th May 2017
  #40
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanneau View Post
Two Manfrotto mic bars. Recording of piano tuner friend. First part of recording is una corda, hence the darkness at beginning.
Is it possible to do this with one manfrotto bar on a boom stand?
Old 13th March 2018
  #41
Here for the gear
@jsguitar:
Yep, this works, but you have to use a hell of a boom stand, because once you need a downward tilt and the boom has to be pulled forward, the the leverage of the rig is tremendous as the NTRs are really heavy microphones.

@blanneu:
Thanks a lot for your inspiration with the Manfrotto bars for the NTR Blumlein. I have just used your concept and combined it with a well calculated Microtech Gefell M930 equivalency pair for a Mahler 5th recording. The result was nothing short of amazing. Both pairs match perfectly localisationwise (Blumlein @ 60 degree, M930 @ 70 degree microphone angle at an Orchestra angle of approx. 53 degree) and the sound characteristics complement each other marvellously:

The Rode NTRs in the Blumlein have an almost sculptural quality while sounding warm, authentic and fast (bow resin!). They subjectively help bringing up the strings, which have been a tad bit on the low side because I could not fly the microphones exactly where I wanted them (a little too close/overlooking the high strings, see pictures). Well, I had an AB pair of Josephson C617 in the 14th row also to make up for that which did the trick, but the audience was as always sick as hell

The M930 pair adds just the right amount of whack, punch and silver and can be stirred in to taste.

If I had to choose one mic pair of those two, I would definitely go for the NTRs - at least at that given hall/orchestra/repertoire situation.

To be completely fair, I have to add, the NTRs had been amped by a Gordon Model 5 via Vovox Sonorus direct S cabling, while the Microtech's ran through Sommer Cable Carbocab into to 2 SPL GainStations (clean only, no Tube) with a slight brightening of the upper mid and treble range using 2 SPL TrackOne EQs. Both cabling/amping decisions complimented my miking/sound mixing/mic characteristics combination idea pretty well, but of course I can not leave that off the table when it comes to comparing both stereo signals.
Attached Thumbnails
Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-ntr-blumlein-60deg-m930-equivalency-70deg_orchestra-53deg_1.jpg   Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-ntr-blumlein-60deg-m930-equivalency-70deg_orchestra-53deg_2.jpg   Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-ntr-blumlein-m930-equivalency_final-position_1.jpg   Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-ntr-blumlein-m930-equivalency_final-position_2.jpg  

Last edited by uvasonar; 13th March 2018 at 04:20 PM.. Reason: Further comment
Old 13th March 2018
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Wow. Flying a pair of NTRs is not for the faint-hearted!

I do think they are fantastic mics, though. I sometimes wonder whether they are overlooked because of the Rode name. If they were $2000 each and handbuilt by someone in a shed the world would be drooling over them.
Old 13th March 2018
  #43
Here for the gear
Agreed 100%. Frankly, these are the first Rode mics I seriously wanted to own after two of my most trusted engineers had heard, used and recommended them. No regrets so far; after 3 months of usage I am still pretty excited about their capabilities.

The only thing I am not sure of is they put out a very narrow band noise peak in the 20k area. I can easily cut and can't really hear it in post, but it is not exactly what I would expect from high end gear.

Can other NTR users confirm that? I have double checked every other aspect that came to mind from power supplies to shieldings and cables, but I could not get rid of it.

Regarding the flying I had the luxury of a 60mm lighting/deco crossbar, which was able to do about any gear lifting and could get adjusted precisely with a remote control. Two Manfrotto clamps screwed to the sides of the horizontal Manfrotto mic bar and a wire to span the vertical bar to either side did the rest: The whole rig was rock solid, given you tightened all locks and screws carefully.
Old 14th March 2018
  #44
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peller View Post
...I sometimes wonder whether they are overlooked because of the Rode name. If they were $2000 each and handbuilt by someone in a shed the world would be drooling over them.
I think Peter Freedman has paid his dues. Rode has credibility. If NTRs are good enough for Tony Faulkner, they're more than good enough for me. Just have to save up my paper route money for a pair...
Old 14th March 2018
  #45
Gear Nut
 
ronmac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uvasonar View Post
....
The only thing I am not sure of is they put out a very narrow band noise peak in the 20k area. I can easily cut and can't really hear it in post, but it is not exactly what I would expect from high end gear.

Can other NTR users confirm that? I have double checked every other aspect that came to mind from power supplies to shieldings and cables, but I could not get rid of it.
My curiosity was killing me....

I just connected my pair to a RME BFPro with short cables (24" Belden) and did a short recording in RX6 Advanced. There is a narrow band of noise around 21.1k that shouldn't be there.

It is likely a ringing in the transformer (?) I haven't heard it, obviously, and it has never had an impact on my recordings.

A curiosity, for sure, but it won't stop me from sleeping well tonight.
Old 14th March 2018
  #46
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
...I just connected my pair to a RME BFPro with short cables (24" Belden) and did a short recording in RX6 Advanced. There is a narrow band of noise around 21.1k that shouldn't be there.

It is likely a ringing in the transformer (?) I haven't heard it, obviously, and it has never had an impact on my recordings.

A curiosity, for sure, but it won't stop me from sleeping well tonight.
Might keep the bats awake. But I guess they would be hibernating this time of year in our woods...

I supose a peak at 21.1 kHz is a concern to those who can hear the difference between 44.1 and 96 recordings but it won't bother these old ears. Still, probably not a bad idea to put a LPF at 20 kHz if you are mastering hi-def recordings done with NTRs, just to go easy on all those audiophiles who use collectable old amplifiers.
Old 14th March 2018
  #47
Here for the gear
@ronmac
Thanks for verifying and good to know it is not only my pair/setup.

Well, indeed. Maybe a transformer issue. Haven't thought of that yet.

@jimjazzdad
Sure, homo sapiens will not lift an eyelid at such a frequency. But it could easily cause trouble when not consciously taken care of in post. Some processes like dynamics might act weird with such high narrow band frequency energy present - even if it can't be heard.
Old 14th March 2018
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by uvasonar View Post
@ronmac
Thanks for verifying and good to know it is not only my pair/setup.

Well, indeed. Maybe a transformer issue. Haven't thought of that yet.

@jimjazzdad
Sure, homo sapiens will not lift an eyelid at such a frequency. But it could easily cause trouble when not consciously taken care of in post. Some processes like dynamics might act weird with such high narrow band frequency energy present - even if it can't be heard.
Really good point. A reminder to always put a spectrum analyzer on your final mix, just to see if there's something weird you're not hearing. Of course, if there IS, you can start digging into the various sources.
Old 15th March 2018
  #49
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by uvasonar View Post
Agreed 100%. Frankly, these are the first Rode mics I seriously wanted to own after two of my most trusted engineers had heard, used and recommended them. No regrets so far; after 3 months of usage I am still pretty excited about their capabilities.

The only thing I am not sure of is they put out a very narrow band noise peak in the 20k area. I can easily cut and can't really hear it in post, but it is not exactly what I would expect from high end gear.

Can other NTR users confirm that? I have double checked every other aspect that came to mind from power supplies to shieldings and cables, but I could not get rid of it.
It would be worth raising this as an issue with Rode...I'm sure they'd take immediate measures to investigate and report on this phenomenon, if it's something that originates from their end (ie manufacture) I'm sure they would take this very seriously indeed.

What's more likely is that it's an interaction with another item (I'd bet money on it being LED lighting or a controller thereof) in the recording environment...which could take a little troubleshooting to reveal ? Does the same mic produce the same HF noise at home for example ?

I'd urge you to report this to Rode directly...they are accessible via their website....especially in light of a second observation of same in this forum.

I would NOT expect Rode to trivialize or dismiss this, it's simply too important to their reputation and customer's satisfaction to do so

Update:

I just heard from a Rode service rep (Matt Springall) on the matter, and he wrote:

"As a Ribbon mic due to design will be far more susceptible to this kind of noise then something like a middle of the road condenser or dynamic.

We're always more than happy to work with our customers to get to the bottom of their issues wherever possible! In this case I'd suggest there is a lot to do with environmental factors however if the particular parties wanted to get in touch we'll gladly to what we can to help get through the issue"

So, as far as corporate responsiveness goes, i don't think you could hope for better: contact him at RØDE Microphones <[email protected]>

Last edited by studer58; 16th March 2018 at 06:39 AM..
Old 17th March 2018
  #50
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
My curiosity was killing me....

I just connected my pair to a RME BFPro with short cables (24" Belden) and did a short recording in RX6 Advanced. There is a narrow band of noise around 21.1k that shouldn't be there.

It is likely a ringing in the transformer (?) I haven't heard it, obviously, and it has never had an impact on my recordings.

A curiosity, for sure, but it won't stop me from sleeping well tonight.
Transformer ringing has never been narrow band in my observations. Money on outside interference or other equipment.
Old 17th March 2018
  #51
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Transformer ringing has never been narrow band in my observations. Money on outside interference or other equipment.
It seems weird to me that two different people, with (I’m assuming) totally different setups and locations, would experience the exact same narrow band of noise if it didn’t have something to do with the microphone.

I’m curious if it would work to pitch the noise down a few octaves to put it in a more audible range and see if listening to it sheds any light on what it might be?

-Mike
Old 17th March 2018
  #52
Gear Head
I don't see it in piano recording posted Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S

Have LED ceiling floods and dimmer on incandescent lights.
Attached Thumbnails
Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-burnley_m2.jpg   Rode NTR Blumlein/M/S-burnley_m2_a.png  
Old 17th March 2018
  #53
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticrogues View Post
It seems weird to me that two different people, with (I’m assuming) totally different setups and locations, would experience the exact same narrow band of noise if it didn’t have something to do with the microphone.

I’m curious if it would work to pitch the noise down a few octaves to put it in a more audible range and see if listening to it sheds any light on what it might be?

-Mike

Well, it may be the mic, but it doesn't sound like any transformer ringing I've ever seen, and I've looked at hundreds of transformer responses.
Old 20th March 2018
  #54
Here for the gear
In depth examination

Hi y'all,

wow, I just came back here after very busy days and now I find all those really helpful thoughts and comments on that issue. I love this forum. Thanks a lot!

I promise to start a more in-depth examination of the case ASAP in return - as a favor to everyone conciously or unconciously affected by the issue.

This is getting interesting and I will for sure report my findings to Rode, but before that, I have to compare setups in/excluding a variety of factors that might be involved to make sure I am not reporting bullsh*.

@ronmac:
Just out of curiousity: was there any classic hard drive in the room when you did your test? Those bummers can emit quite some narrowband HF noise not detectable by the human ear.

Maybe these mics just don't roll off like we are used to and capture things we would prefer not being captured.

I hope to be back soon with results.

Cheers, you brave audio fellows

Roman
Old 2 weeks ago
  #55
Here for the gear
RODE NTR high frequency noise issue solved

Hi guys,

I am really sorry it took so endlessly long to report my findings. I was buried in work. But here you go - TADA:

The source of high frequency noise using the RODE NTRs has turned out to be a lighting issue in each and every case. In my own studio I had to switch off the flying halogen lighting system to get rid of the disturbance to 100% - and in the Kassel Stadthalle concert hall recording Mahler 5th it has been halogen induced as well. Just using LED lights around the NTRs has solved the issue for me - and in the hall I will use other mics in the future.

As none of my high end condensers show any noise in exactly the same surroundings/with the same equipment hooked up, I guess the NTRs are pretty sensitive to EMI. But maybe some of the technically more experienced of you will be able to describe more accurately what must be the case here!?

Anyway: I just have ordered a SONY C100. New toy coming!!
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