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Anyone using Schoeps MK22 for main pair? Condenser Microphones
Old 8th January 2018
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
We've got 10 of the MK22/CMC6 here at Soundmirror. When they first came out, everybody loved them for string spots. However, over the years I have gone back to my old tried and true choices.
In order:
  • MK21
  • MK5
  • MK4
  • mk22
I find that it is much like the MK2H. When it came out we all used it for a period of time, but now a days, they almost never leave the mic cabinet.
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
Hi Mark, I always appreciate your input on this forum. And thank you for this list -- interesting to consider that. If you can find a moment, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts specifically on why the Mk22 is not always a good choice in your/Soundmirror's experience, and conversely, what the situations are when you do typically find them a better choice than the other options you mentioned...

Many thanks again,
Luke
Old 8th January 2018
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukedamrosch View Post
Hi Mark, I always appreciate your input on this forum. And thank you for this list -- interesting to consider that. If you can find a moment, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts specifically on why the Mk22 is not always a good choice in your/Soundmirror's experience, and conversely, what the situations are when you do typically find them a better choice than the other options you mentioned...

Many thanks again,
Luke
My all-time favorite string spot is the MK21. It just sounds right. It blends well and never jumps out of the picture. If I need something a little more directional, I'll go to the MK5, as they have a similar character. If the strings are a little bright, I'll switch to the MK4 (Which is think is on the dull side for string spots...) To my ear, the MK22 lacks "weight" for massed strings. Sorry I can't be more empirical.
All the best,
-mark
Old 11th January 2018
  #33
Thanks Mark! I really appreciate it.
Old 14th January 2018
  #34
Lives for gear
 

mk4/mk8/mk21/ortf/xy

i get to work with (small to medium) orchestras playing along with electronic/amplified instruments or jazz bands; i therefore prefer narrower pickup patterns on spot (and even section) mics and use mostly mk4's.

main is often ortf or mk 21 if l/c/r.

i used mk22's on (front and) rear ambi (wide a/b) switched to mk 2's and 'felt' (not heard/compared side by side) the room getting wider, but had to engage a slightly higher hipass (and switched front amby to shotguns pointing into the audience); so no more mk22's - good mic though, but not for my needs
Old 29th January 2018
  #35


Out of curiosity for how well they would work in a chamber setting, I just recorded a concert with the 22's. With the unique pattern, i opted for somewhere in between ORTF and NOS. About 100 degrees at approx 22 cm. Spots were used minimally. TLM107 in wide cardioid and a C617set on the harp. Worked alright I think.
Old 29th January 2018
  #36
Absolutely lovely, Daniel! I can't judge the stereo image on cans, but the full sound without any MK-4ish "pushyness" is exactly why I love those capsules. What spot were you using on the lower strings?

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 29th January 2018
  #37
Very nice, and thank you for sharing! This is just the sort of real-world example I was hoping to hear...

I agree with David's comments above as well as Earcatcher's earlier opinion that the Mk22 seems to share a sonic smoothness family with the Mk2 and Mk8. Indeed, the overall texture of your recording reminds me of the natural and unstrained quality I am familiar with from using Mk2, but with the reduced ambience one would expect from directionals.

Thanks again!
Old 29th January 2018
  #38
Quote:
What spot were you using on the lower strings?
TLM107. Same as the high strings. A rather versatile and unobtrusive sounding mic IMO.
Old 1 week ago
  #39
Gear Nut
 

Has anyone used mk22 in an XY setup for small room/ensemble or solo spot pickup?
Old 1 week ago
  #40
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tourtelot's Avatar
Mark, (or anyone) could you point me to a GS thread that compares Mk4s and Mk5. I always, hmm, assumed that they sounded similar. I have both but have never directly compared them. I'll take the 5s if I am tight on space and not certain if I need ORTF or spaced A-B. If I know I need spaced A-B, I'll take Mk21s or Mk2Ss and If I know I need ORTF, I'll take Mk4s (if I don't take the DPAs which I mostly like better).

If I know I need ORTF, is there any reason to pick the Mk5s over the Mk4s?

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Out of curiosity for how well they would work in a chamber setting, I just recorded a concert with the 22's. With the unique pattern, i opted for somewhere in between ORTF and NOS. About 100 degrees at approx 22 cm. Spots were used minimally. TLM107 in wide cardioid and a C617set on the harp. Worked alright I think.
really nice! super clean, clear, wide stereo image, interesting room
Old 6 days ago
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Mark, (or anyone) could you point me to a GS thread that compares Mk4s and Mk5. I always, hmm, assumed that they sounded similar. I have both but have never directly compared them. I'll take the 5s if I am tight on space and not certain if I need ORTF or spaced A-B. If I know I need spaced A-B, I'll take Mk21s or Mk2Ss and If I know I need ORTF, I'll take Mk4s (if I don't take the DPAs which I mostly like better).

If I know I need ORTF, is there any reason to pick the Mk5s over the Mk4s?

D.
The MK5 is possibly my favorite Schoeps capsule (Along with the MK21) and is clearly the most versatile. The MK5 has a bit more top when compared to the MK4. I most often use them as Outriggers in Omni and as string, Clarinet and Bassoon spots in Cardoid.
In general I find that the 5 is a more usable cardoid than an MK4 because of the lift. As an Omni it sits in a nice place between the MK2 and MK2S.
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
Old 6 days ago
  #43
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tourtelot's Avatar
Thanks, Mark. I'll explore that. It's my busy season and not a lot of over-sight so perfect timing.

D.
Old 6 days ago
  #44
Gear Addict
 

The MK5 has about 2db worse self-noise specs in omni mode than the pure omni capsules. I'm not sure why that is.

I think the MK2H is still the ideal all-round omni capsule for multiple use cases (near and far). The MK5 starts the HF lift much lower in frequency, which could sound a touch harsh on some sources, as the MK2S can (which also starts the lift at a lower frequency, but boosts even more).

What I'm wondering is if anyone has tried the MK5 in an "in-between" setting. I know Schoeps says they can't guarantee what the results will be, so they recommend against it, but it still intruiges me. I wonder if there is a subcardioid pattern lurking in there as well if you get the setting in the right spot. That would really make the capsule versatile.
Old 4 days ago
  #45
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Plush's Avatar
Positioning for an "in-between" pattern is unreliable on MK5. Why should it work?

It doesn't work.
Old 4 days ago
  #46
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Positioning for an "in-between" pattern is unreliable on MK5. Why should it work?

It doesn't work.
A sub-cardioid and a half closed-off omni are certainly not the same thing.

D.
Old 4 days ago
  #47
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Right, i think there’s some confusion maybe in what’s happening to the MK5; it’s not like an electrical switch like a dual-cap, multipattern mic has, it’s a physical piece moving to open and close the back of the capsule and change the polar pattern.
Old 3 days ago
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanBarley View Post
Has anyone used mk22 in an XY setup for small room/ensemble or solo spot pickup?
I think examples of XY for overall pickup will be few and far between here, but I know from my previous browsing that there are a number of very good examples out there of mk22 as spots in a variety of contexts -- certainly many more than in a main pair role. Indeed, this was part of my motivation for starting the thread...
Old 3 days ago
  #49
MK22 is generally not suitable as a fully-coincident (xy) pair because a wide-cardioid pattern does not produce enough level change with angle to get a full stereo width. You need to add some interaural time difference to obtain a full soundstage on playback, which calls for a near-coincident array having somewhat wider spacing than one would use with cardioids.
Old 2 days ago
  #50
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
A sub-cardioid and a half closed-off omni are certainly not the same thing.
Are you sure?
How does one create a sub-cardioid interference pattern then, if not by rear-venting an amount somewhere between that of an omni (none) and cardioid (a lot)?
Not saying you're wrong, I just don't know, and would like some more information before writing off the possibility entirely.
Old 2 days ago
  #51
Gear Maniac
 

It is entirely possible to design a mechanically adjustable omni and cardioid microphone which also gives you perfect patterns anywhere in between depending where the backdoor you move it to. However, it is easily said than done because it is very difficult and complicated to design the backdoor mechanism that will track the dispersion pattern as well as frequency flatness throughout the entire range. It is not just a backdoor adjustment you need you also would need the perfect back acoustic chamber that will adjust its properties as you move the backdoor. I could imagine that by the time it is all done the back of the cartridge will have a mechanism as complicated as a Swiss watch.
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