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Sample from first recording gig with the x32 and Cymatic uTrack-x32 Condenser Microphones
Old 13th March 2017
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Sample from first recording gig with the x32 and Cymatic uTrack-x32

Wanted to share this recording with you for those interested in recording with an x32.


HS Choir in a large church; lots of wood. This excerpt is part of a relatively long crescendo in the piece.

Signal Chain:
Mains: Oktava Mk-012 in ORTF (way too far from the choir [conductor's request for video aesthetics]) -> Behringer x32 -> Cymatic uTrack-x32

Outriggers: Studio Projects c4 in omni (spaced way too far apart due to the conductor's request to keep them off the stage; about 30 ft apart) -> Behringer x32 -> Cymatic uTrack-x32

Recorded in 48/24 for eventual video sync.

Here is the .wav if you'd like to listen to that instead: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlyl5jungy...mple2.mp3?dl=0
Attached Files

sample2.mp3 (2.35 MB, 856 views)


Last edited by lyrictenor1; 13th March 2017 at 03:14 AM..
Old 13th March 2017
  #2
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tourtelot's Avatar
Choir=sound source right? Very important right? Why would a choir director tell you to put your mics, the mics that make his "sound source" sound good, in a place that makes them sound bad? (shakes head)

The best thing about being an acoustic music recordist, after 35 years in the motion picture business is that, finally, I can tell the cameraman that if my mics are in his shot, he needs to pick another shot. Can't tell you how happy that makes me.

D.
Old 13th March 2017
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Choir=sound source right? Very important right? Why would a choir director tell you to put your mics, the mics that make his "sound source" sound good, in a place that makes them sound bad? (shakes head)

The best thing about being an acoustic music recordist, after 35 years in the motion picture business is that, finally, I can tell the cameraman that if my mics are in his shot, he needs to pick another shot. Can't tell you how happy that makes me.

D.
This is a recording of a live concert, so the recording itself is secondary to the concert itself. Also, I believe this recording will be sync'd to a video, and perhaps that's their main reason for recording the audio. Hey, he's writing the checks, so I won't argue with him. I do, however, let him know what the likely implications for suboptimal mic placement will be on the recording.
Old 13th March 2017
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
Hey, he's writing the checks, so I won't argue with him. I do, however, let him know what the likely implications for suboptimal mic placement will be on the recording.
I apologize in advance for contributing to the diversion of this thread so early in its life...maybe it needs to be taken elsewhere ?

That's so often the 'rock and a hard place' scenario we on this forum find our backs against ! To make your point and claw back some semblance of justification for mic placement, you could provide him with a rehearsal recording (with the mics in correct placement) ?

There's the danger that he'll be unable to discern much difference between the two...or has already developed a conscious bias against the 'correct' placement, such that no argument will sway him ?

In reality, unless the mic stands are very thick or numerous, most audience members (and video viewers) scarcely register their presence after a few minutes.

If you made your own amateur video of mic stands in the 'right' and 'wrong' places (perhaps during rehearsals), and presented him with both versions, I'm guessing he'd be hard pressed to tell the difference...especially if the cameras are zoomed far back.

Perhaps what we here all need is to compile a "video defense fund" of correctly placed mic stands in public concert settings, available across multiple YouTube videos, which could be trotted out at a moment's notice to show how little they impact visually.

Those showing highly regarded orchestras and broadcasters worldwide might hold much more sway than amateur videos.

Should I perhaps begin a 'repository thread', devoted to just these video examples, to which we could all contribute YouTube/Vimeo links ?
Old 13th March 2017
  #5
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
That's so often the 'rock and a hard place' scenario we on this forum find our backs against ! To make your point and claw back some semblance of justification for mic placement, you could provide him with a rehearsal recording (with the mics in correct placement) ?
It's not worth it for these kinds of concerts (I too was a HS choral director for several years), and I'm not being paid to come to the rehearsal. Plus, the conductor is managing a program of about 400 students; this is probably one of the last things on his mind. Honestly, they probably wanted something "good enough" to use with the video that they will probably sell to the parents. No issues with me, as long as I made my point.


Anyway, this thread isn't about this. Perhaps another thread regarding this subject wouldn't be a bad idea.
Old 13th March 2017
  #6
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hughesmr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
... the conductor is managing a program of about 400 students; this is probably one of the last things on his mind. Honestly, they probably wanted something "good enough" to use with the video that they will probably sell to the parents.
In that case, I hope the issues of mechanical and sync licenses aren't also among the last things on his mind.
Old 13th March 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
Anyway, this thread isn't about this. Perhaps another thread regarding this subject wouldn't be a bad idea.
Yep, I agree
Old 13th March 2017
  #8
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Wow, 160 views on the sound clip but no comments on it? Must sound that bad, eh? LOL.
Old 13th March 2017
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
Wow, 160 views on the sound clip but no comments on it? Must sound that bad, eh? LOL.
I took your initial remarks on poor mic placement as an acknowledgment of what I was to eventually hear: the soft passages were buried and even louder passages (to my ears) lacked definition. Also, how much of your flankers were in the mix? It sounded like quite a bit of localization hard L and R: I had a difficult time discerning a pleasing stereo image.

Well, that's what I think, but I'm not writing the checks. What does your conductor think?
Old 14th March 2017
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrReid View Post
I took your initial remarks on poor mic placement as an acknowledgment of what I was to eventually hear: the soft passages were buried and even louder passages (to my ears) lacked definition. Also, how much of your flankers were in the mix? It sounded like quite a bit of localization hard L and R: I had a difficult time discerning a pleasing stereo image.

Well, that's what I think, but I'm not writing the checks. What does your conductor think?

Well, he's not my conductor; this was a gig for me, and like I said, I made sure he knew what the consequences were of suboptimal mic placement. That said, he hasn't heard it yet, but compared to the recording that someone else did last year for the event, he might not care as much.

Indeed, I had to dial in quite a bit of the flanks in the mix, as the ORTF pair was way too far, and therefore too much noise. In the mix, ORTF by itself had a much better stereo image (of course), but I know the market for these kinds of events, and they would much rather hear something "full" sounding and could care less about stereo image. You gots to choose your battles, I say. I made the comments in my original post regarding mic placement as a disclaimer; I wanted to share what I had done on my first outing with this rig for those that might be interested in using a rig based on an x32 for recording.

Thanks for your reply to the thread.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #11
Well I want to know about how it went - is it usb 2 or 3, direct to HDD or pass through a laptop, or both possible as a backup/repro. Any noticeable delayed response on the console while recording direct to HDD? How's the sound compared to your previous rig/converters?
Do you trust it yet and will use it again?
How about scrubbing and MD request to go back & listen to just one mvmt; can you drop markers? Can you name tracks before pressing red button?
I've been asked to rent/buy this combo for a series of 10 shows at JFest; Instead of splitter snake & HD24 as backup to FW800 method.
Rgds
WalterT
Old 1st July 2018
  #12
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by audibell View Post
Well I want to know about how it went - is it usb 2 or 3, direct to HDD or pass through a laptop, or both possible as a backup/repro. Any noticeable delayed response on the console while recording direct to HDD? How's the sound compared to your previous rig/converters?
Do you trust it yet and will use it again?
How about scrubbing and MD request to go back & listen to just one mvmt; can you drop markers? Can you name tracks before pressing red button?
I've been asked to rent/buy this combo for a series of 10 shows at JFest; Instead of splitter snake & HD24 as backup to FW800 method.
Rgds
WalterT
Sorry for the delay in responding to this; I was frustrated at the hijacking of my thread that I didn't want to address it for a whie.

I utilized a Cymatic uTrack x32 expansion card for the x32 console, straight to HDD. I also record the main mix to the x32's USB drive. What I'm monitoring is through the console; I'm recording raw tracks into the Cymatic unit, and I also route a main mix to it as well, just for kicks.

For the price point, the pres are pretty nice and very usable for remotes. I came from a 002 with a Studio Projects SP828, and this is a nice step above that.

I have been using it for about 18 months now, and it has worked flawlessly.

You can scrub and provide playback through the Cymatic uRemote app on a wireless device (I have a wireless router connected to the x32).

I haven't tried renaming tracks through the Cymatic, and I don't think you can. When they're extracted from the HDD, they're simply labled with "Track #." I just write it down in my notebook beforehand.

Haven't really used the marker function, though one can seamlessly create a new "take" on the uRemote app during tracking.

Hope this helps, if you haven't already discovered this stuff yourself since it's been a long time since you posted.
Old 1st July 2018
  #13
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Here's another sample: Superlux s502 (mains, ORTF); MK012 flanks -> x32 -> Cymatic uTrack x32. 44.1/24, dithered to 16. Only a little low end EQ roll off.

Dropbox - Les Yeux du Destin.wav
Attached Thumbnails
Sample from first recording gig with the x32 and Cymatic uTrack-x32-20180603_155441.jpg  
Attached Files

Les Yeux du Destin.mp3 (2.88 MB, 297 views)

Old 9th July 2018
  #14
X32 - Cymatic

Hey, thnks your response.
I used the combo as the insurance recorder, on the FOH aes-b port, run to the truck. An hd24 it's not. I used the iPh app to stop & start it as well as the uTool, uRemote and Wave Agent to clean up afterwards. I tried file ingest every night but it took so long to break out & rename tracks we just got another HDD and kept filling and made clones. I saved the scene file for each show in the folder paths so a future editor could see who was on which channel. The laptop primary only crashed on one show so this x-32 files set was only used once and no complaints.
As for classical, your "...they would much rather hear something "full" sounding and could care less about stereo image..." applies here. I doubt the x-32 dac is as good as the hd24 w the burr-browns, doesn't sound as good but most people just want mp4 or mp3s so we've reached diminishing returns. I get calls for audio only, it's usually audio for video and they don't want to see any mic stands, but still want the air conditioning scrubbed off the finals. I'm keeping the hd24 w sata caddies as primary 'til it dies.
Good luck, WalterT
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