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1/2" condenser Blumlein stereo, Comments
Old 8th March 2017
  #1
1/2" condenser Blumlein stereo, Comments

There are ribbon Blumlein and large condenser Blumlein. But I didn't see any single piece 1/2" condenser Blumlein stereo. This could be the first one. Comments welcome. The mic is B9audio CSM88.
Old 8th March 2017
  #2
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I have to say, the best part for me was the applause at the end...it's the section I share the best mental reference point with.

The extreme left right separation is, of course, what one would expect with the choral array you have there...and noted that the ambience from the left was reproduced on the right and vice versa, which I assume is a typical Blumlein thing ?

Where was the microphone located, in relation to the ensemble/conductor positions ?

As close-sounding as it was, I enjoyed the experience, it conveyed the sense of 'vocal density' or each section well.

However I look forward to further examples of more conventional performances...orchestral, quartets, piano and voice, solo violin etc..if that is possible ?
Old 8th March 2017
  #3
This is a whole mix with other microphones. Center is the Blumlein stereo with flanking. There're a lot of spots in the orchestra.
Old 8th March 2017
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I have to say, the best part for me was the applause at the end...it's the section I share the best mental reference point with.

The extreme left right separation is, of course, what one would expect with the choral array you have there...and noted that the ambience from the left was reproduced on the right and vice versa, which I assume is a typical Blumlein thing ?

Where was the microphone located, in relation to the ensemble/conductor positions ?

As close-sounding as it was, I enjoyed the experience, it conveyed the sense of 'vocal density' or each section well.

However I look forward to further examples of more conventional performances...orchestral, quartets, piano and voice, solo violin etc..if that is possible ?
This is a traditional choral arrangement. The mic is a close-up setting at about 4 meters above stage and 2 meters away from center, as I have the main stereo further away.


A simple recording of string quartet in rehearsal room of 14/10/4.1 meters. Mic center about 2 meters away.
Old 8th March 2017
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
There are ribbon Blumlein and large condenser Blumlein. But I didn't see any single piece 1/2" condenser Blumlein stereo. This could be the first one. Comments welcome. The mic is B9audio CSM88.
In that situation, a pair of spaced omnis could help unify the stereo image as opposed to exaggerating the localization/separation of the two choir halves with the Blumlein array. But I'm interested to learn more about the fig 8 capsules used in the mic.
Old 8th March 2017
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
In that situation, a pair of spaced omnis could help unify the stereo image as opposed to exaggerating the localization/separation of the two choir halves with the Blumlein array. But I'm interested to learn more about the fig 8 capsules used in the mic.
Yes, spaced omni pair is very good. But added with a center omni and make it Decca tree is another popular form. Replace the center omni with a Blumlein stereo allow more possibility in post. It could be pure mono center, or can be changed as MS with variable S level.

The capsules are precision made and match pair. How do you like their quality in the video?
Old 8th March 2017
  #7
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tourtelot's Avatar
Really like the size of the B9audio CSM88. I love the sound of ribbons on vocal ensembles but hate the fragility of ribbons in general when they need to be transported to and used in "real-world" venues (as opposed to in a studio).

What is the price-point on this mic, and how would you describe the sturdiness of it vis a vis location work? Is there a guarantee on the ribbon?

D.
Old 8th March 2017
  #8
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tourtelot's Avatar
Just came to think, this might not be a ribbon mic after all. Rectangular condenser?

Looks like the price is $800.

D.
Old 8th March 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
The capsules are precision made and match pair. How do you like their quality in the video?
I can't comment accurately on the quality of the mic capsules from listening to this clip. I'm interested though to know more about the fig 8 capsule, such as the technical specs and design details. Is it single-ended asymmetrical, single-ended symmetrical, or push-pull, what is the frequency response, self noise a-weighted and sensitivity, and any other technical info. Thanks.
Old 8th March 2017
  #10
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elektrovolt's Avatar
The exaggerated 'S' sounds are quite distracting in my opinion.
I would love to have a good blumlein small condenser mic setup, my favourites are the Sennheiser mkh30 pair and Schoeps mk8 pair.
Old 9th March 2017
  #11
Yes Doug, you're right. But not rectangular, it is circular condenser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Just came to think, this might not be a ribbon mic after all. Rectangular condenser?

Looks like the price is $800.

D.
Old 9th March 2017
  #12
Typical Blumlein, always possible to control the S in post. This CSM88 is similar to Schoeps MK8 capsule. I cannot compare it to MKH30 since I did not use it before.
The size of CSM88 is about the same as 2 SCHOEPS CCM8 stacked together, but with single end connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elektrovolt View Post
The exaggerated 'S' sounds are quite distracting in my opinion.
I would love to have a good blumlein small condenser mic setup, my favourites are the Sennheiser mkh30 pair and Schoeps mk8 pair.
Old 9th March 2017
  #13
Sensitivity about 10mV/Pa, noise at 18dBA. You can find the spec by google it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
I can't comment accurately on the quality of the mic capsules from listening to this clip. I'm interested though to know more about the fig 8 capsule, such as the technical specs and design details. Is it single-ended asymmetrical, single-ended symmetrical, or push-pull, what is the frequency response, self noise a-weighted and sensitivity, and any other technical info. Thanks.
Old 9th March 2017
  #14
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elektrovolt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
Typical Blumlein, always possible to control the S in post. This CSM88 is similar to Schoeps MK8 capsule. I cannot compare it to MKH30 since I did not use it before.
The size of CSM88 is about the same as 2 SCHOEPS CCM8 stacked together, but with single end connection.
Sorry, I meant to say 'ess" as in sibilance. They jump out quite clearly, a bit too much for my taste.
Old 12th March 2017
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
In that situation, a pair of spaced omnis could help unify the stereo image as opposed to exaggerating the localization/separation of the two choir halves with the Blumlein array. But I'm interested to learn more about the fig 8 capsules used in the mic.
This clip is a pair of spaced omni (2 meters across) with CSM88 at 25cm in front of the center line. Piano spot is a pair of omni spaced at 30cm.
https://www.facebook.com/2010quietti...7161857669903/
Old 13th March 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
This clip is a pair of spaced omni (2 meters across) with CSM88 at 25cm in front of the center line. Piano spot is a pair of omni spaced at 30cm.
This recording has serious problems, the most unusual of which the volume level seems to fluctuate between the channels, reminds me of old cassette recordings. I wouldn't use it to promote the mic.
Old 9th April 2017
  #17
Simple straight 2 track rehearsal recording, Shostakovitch String Octet with CSM88:
Old 17th September 2017
  #18
Did a string quartet recording in a TV studio. Direct out clip, no process.
String quartet with CSM88
Old 22nd September 2017
  #19
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There seems to be an awful lot of self-noise (hiss).....is this coming from the microphone or your recording chain ? The recording sounds extremely close to the musicians, and the studio acoustic damping has sucked all the ambience away from the instruments.

I have a suspicion that your microphone may have some potential, but every recording you have posted with it has flaws in recording method which prevent me from appreciating its strengths. Either it is supplemented with other mics, which renders any comparison impossible, or post-processing does the same thing. It's a microphone I would "like to like", but under present demonstration conditions I can't.

Would it be possible to record a string quartet, or a solo singer accompanied by piano, or solo flute/clarinet/guitar with the mic 3 to 4 metres high and in front of the ensemble/performer, ideally with supporting photos, in a performance hall or auditorium (you seem to have ready access to these) ?

No recording studios, no additional mics, no post added reverb or normalizing...just a really basic recording. Such conditions might permit the mic to finally "show its true identity" ?
Old 22nd September 2017
  #20
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tourtelot's Avatar
I currently have one of these mics as a demo, and my work schedule is finally starting to pick up again after the summer holiday.

I have promised Tony that I will try this out first opportunity I have. With the artist's permission, I will try and post A-B clip(s) of some usable sort. More soon, I hope.

D.
Old 22nd September 2017
  #21
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Thanks Doug, as I said much curiosity and enthusiasm is aroused, but without familiar benchmark standards to compare with, I feel under-equipped to pass any judgement. The mic looks well engineered and finished, but the whole package has to deliver....
Old 23rd September 2017
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
There seems to be an awful lot of self-noise (hiss).....is this coming from the microphone or your recording chain ? The recording sounds extremely close to the musicians, and the studio acoustic damping has sucked all the ambience away from the instruments.

I have a suspicion that your microphone may have some potential, but every recording you have posted with it has flaws in recording method which prevent me from appreciating its strengths. Either it is supplemented with other mics, which renders any comparison impossible, or post-processing does the same thing. It's a microphone I would "like to like", but under present demonstration conditions I can't.

Would it be possible to record a string quartet, or a solo singer accompanied by piano, or solo flute/clarinet/guitar with the mic 3 to 4 metres high and in front of the ensemble/performer, ideally with supporting photos, in a performance hall or auditorium (you seem to have ready access to these) ?

No recording studios, no additional mics, no post added reverb or normalizing...just a really basic recording. Such conditions might permit the mic to finally "show its true identity" ?

Well, you're right, the recording space got serious noise issue. There're several robotic lighting fixutres with noisy fans. Since it is a TV studio, video is one of the major task, and effect lighting is a must for that. Also there're damping drapes. The distance from the mic to the quartet is about 2 meters.

Last edited by 9sbean; 23rd September 2017 at 10:02 AM.. Reason: Add a photo
Old 23rd September 2017
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
I currently have one of these mics as a demo, and my work schedule is finally starting to pick up again after the summer holiday.

I have promised Tony that I will try this out first opportunity I have. With the artist's permission, I will try and post A-B clip(s) of some usable sort. More soon, I hope.

D.
Thanks Doug, looking forward to it.
Old 3rd March 2018
  #24
Did a little piano recording test with CSM88, small condenser Blumlein. Comments welcome.
CSM88 PF TEST2 by 9s.recording | 9s Recording | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 3rd March 2018
  #25
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
Did a little piano recording test with CSM88, small condenser Blumlein. Comments welcome...
It sounds like it has all the right ingredients . I would love to hear the CSM88 on something 'meatier' like one of the Ko Chen Yen performances featured on your website, or maybe have Rolo 46 give it a try in one of his Gloucester churches. Its twin capsule figure eight, not single diaphragm figure eight, right?
Old 3rd March 2018
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
It sounds like it has all the right ingredients . I would love to hear the CSM88 on something 'meatier' like one of the Ko Chen Yen performances featured on your website, or maybe have Rolo 46 give it a try in one of his Gloucester churches. Its twin capsule figure eight, not single diaphragm figure eight, right?
Each capsule is single diaphragm figure 8.Not back to back cardioid figure 8.
For meatier sound, Omni or wide cardioid is still better. True figure 8 is pure pressure gradient, and exhibits proximity effect.
Old 3rd March 2018
  #27
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By 'meatier' I meant a piano piece with more big chords as well as the staccato high notes to give us more of a sense of what the CSM88 is capable of. I did listen to the choral example above but the sibilance was distracting and there was no clear explanation of whether it was caused by the choir, the mic position, or the mic itself. This is a very interesting microphone for those of us who are Blumlein acolytes, so please continue to post examples that we can compare.
Old 3rd March 2018
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
By 'meatier' I meant a piano piece with more big chords as well as the staccato high notes to give us more of a sense of what the CSM88 is capable of. I did listen to the choral example above but the sibilance was distracting and there was no clear explanation of whether it was caused by the choir, the mic position, or the mic itself. This is a very interesting microphone for those of us who are Blumlein acolytes, so please continue to post examples that we can compare.
Got it, will do that when I got a chance.
Old 3rd March 2018
  #29
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TEEspresso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sbean View Post
Did a little piano recording test with CSM88, small condenser Blumlein. Comments welcome.
CSM88 PF TEST2 by 9s.recording | 9s Recording | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I like it. Sounds very promising. Good dynamics so far, and like jimjazzdad I'm curious how it will be on louder and fuller material. Looking forward to more examples.

I'm curious as to what the recording chain is; preamp, recorder, etc. The sound is quite nice.

Also if there is a way to provide wav files for your future tests, as the soundcloud 128kbps mp3 compression played havoc with the harmonic overtones and room sounds.

Thanks for your time and for a very nice sounding microphone.
Old 7th March 2018
  #30
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Tony, have you considered producing a single fig8 mono microphone, utilizing the diaphragm and body of the CSM88, to give us the real-world equivalent of the never-to-be -produced Sennheiser MKH8030 ?

There was a big build up of hope and expectation that they might release this after the 8020, 8040, 8050 but it never came to pass....and your mic could fill that vacuum if it has comparable performance ?
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