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Best Headphones for Monitoring? Studio Headphones
Old 11th February 2009
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Of course the cables and connectors are also modified... Saw something about it on the german Hifi-Forum some time ago, can't find the link now.
The Cardas cable mentioned above is definitely not balanced as anyone can see.
Cardas Audio

They balance nicely... the account of Cardas
Old 11th February 2009
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I don't know, but I see two female XLRs in the picture at this site > Balanced Headphone Amplifier Amp Studio Reference for professional use - QES Labs
Me too. And on the other end of the cable?!
Old 11th February 2009
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
Me too. And on the other end of the cable?!
Read a little further. It says "Headphones must be recabled".
Old 11th February 2009
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
Read a little further. It says "Headphones must be recabled".
Give it up, that headphone IS recabled. Still the connectors are unbalanced.

No common ground, but balanced?
Old 11th February 2009
  #95
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Cool

The Sennheiser HD 800 has landed on my desk today.

After listening to it, all my other headphones are going in the bin.

Neutral, great soundstage and you can hear everything - these will be my monitoring headphones from now on - definitely.

Now, I know you will all take everything I say with a pinch of salt as I work for Sennheiser - but, seriously, have a listen and let me know what you really think.

In the shops next month. At £1,000 / $1,400 they are not cheap but I find them so good I may even buy a second pair.

Sometimes it's difficult when the company you work for brings out a product that genuinely knocks you out - but this is it for me. But take a listen and please let me know if you don't agree (and you can say it as loud as you like if you wish).
Old 11th February 2009
  #96
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John, not that I was looking for new headphones (the Beyer DT 880 Pro is quite "it" for me), nor would I be likely to spend that much, but what other headphones have you used, and how does the 800 compare?
Can you send me one for a test...?
Old 11th February 2009
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
John, not that I was looking for new headphones (the Beyer DT 880 Pro is quite "it" for me), nor would I be likely to spend that much, but what other headphones have you used, and how does the 800 compare?
Can you send me one for a test...?
Or maybe you can post some samples ? heh
Old 11th February 2009
  #98
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
John, not that I was looking for new headphones (the Beyer DT 880 Pro is quite "it" for me), nor would I be likely to spend that much, but what other headphones have you used, and how does the 800 compare?
Can you send me one for a test...?
I have used the AKG K60, Beyer DT 100, Sennheiser HD 25-1, HD 250, HD 580, HD 600 and HD 650 - the HD 800 is so radically different it walks all over them.

There will be plenty of places in Germany to hear them, but beware, after listening to the 800s I can't listen to my 650s anymore.
Old 11th February 2009
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I have used the AKG K60, Beyer DT 100, Sennheiser HD 25-1, HD 250, HD 580, HD 600 and HD 650 - the HD 800 is so radically different it walks all over them.

There will be plenty of places in Germany to hear them, but beware, after listening to the 800s I can't listen to my 650s anymore.
Where would you, biased as you are , compare them to the STAX electrostats (or the Sennheiser Orpheus (was that the name of the Sennheiser electrostat?))??
Old 11th February 2009
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I have used the AKG K60, Beyer DT 100, Sennheiser HD 25-1, HD 250, HD 580, HD 600 and HD 650 - the HD 800 is so radically different it walks all over them.
Nothing I'd consider a serious contender even to the 880 - I've always found the Sennheisers a tad muffled and dark sounding.
There's no place that is likely to stock the 800 anywhere near my place. Seems it won't be available very soon anyhow.
Old 11th February 2009
  #101
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
Where would you, biased as you are , compare them to the STAX electrostats (or the Sennheiser Orpheus (was that the name of the Sennheiser electrostat?))??
I have not heard the Stax recently, so won't comment.

I think I would put them better than the Sennheiser HE 60 electrostatic and getting close to the HE90 (Orpheus).

I have not had extended listening yet, they are now on a 24-hour burning in period (24-hours of pink noise).

They have a unique, patented, diaphragm (see my avatar) which makes them very fast and responsive. I have already bought my first pair (but have to wait until they actually make them).
Old 11th February 2009
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
N I've always found the Sennheisers a tad muffled and dark sounding.
Not the 800



Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu View Post
There's no place that is likely to stock the 800 anywhere near my place. Seems it won't be available very soon anyhow.
Available next month - manufacture is due to start on Monday.

Sennheiser will have a list of dealers - but several hundred have already been pre-sold to people who have read initial reviews on Head-Fi and have put their money down on that alone.
Old 11th February 2009
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
...they are now on a 24-hour burning in period (24-hours of pink noise).
...
Is pink noise a suitable signal for that? wouldn't sweeps send the moving parts better through their paces and resonances? What about transients?
Old 11th February 2009
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
Is pink noise a suitable signal for that? wouldn't sweeps send the moving parts better through their paces and resonances? What about transients?
This is what the designer of the headphones recommended - and pink noise because it includes all frequencies.
Old 14th February 2009
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
I don't know, but I see two female XLRs in the picture at this site > Balanced Headphone Amplifier Amp Studio Reference for professional use - QES Labs
Me too. And on the other end of the cable?!
If you are using the hd600 or 650 you only need the cable, while other headphones need to be recabled.
If you google 'balanced headphones' you will find how the system works.
Old 14th February 2009
  #106
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If you google it also, you will find a lot of mumbo jumbo but not a single explanation. The reason is very simple: 'Balanced headphones' are the emperors new clothes.

It's not difficult to understand, but then this nice little market selling useless stuff to clueless people disappears...

I say it again, very slowly, no common ground is NOT balanced!

It's a fraud. No major headphone maker sells balanced headphones, not even their audiophile models. Wouldn't they, if it made sense?
Old 14th February 2009
  #107
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
No major headphone maker sells balanced headphones, not even their audiophile models. Wouldn't they, if it made sense?
The new Sennheiser HD 800 has balanced cable - it's terminated in a normal 1/4" jack, but you can run it balanced by cutting off the jack and replacing it with two XLRs (or whatever your balanced amplifier requires); it does not need re-cabling.
Old 14th February 2009
  #108
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A headphone driver is a wire to a coil glued at membrane.. it's as balanced device due to the symmetry. If you drive the two conductors with a bridged circuit not referenced to ground, presto, balanced operation of the headphones.

It's only natural.. not that I know how much harm (if any) a common ground could make but it's easy to go the balanced route.


/Peter
Old 15th February 2009
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
It's not difficult to understand, but then this nice little market selling useless stuff to clueless people disappears...

I say it again, very slowly, no common ground is NOT balanced!

It's a fraud. No major headphone maker sells balanced headphones, not even their audiophile models. Wouldn't they, if it made sense?
Well, so any transformer floating line is a fraud to you? (i.e. Neve, and old school stuff)
You should study 'balanced transmission lines', and I really mean it in the most helpful sense.
You need 2 rails to get your load (which is a 2-terminal network) reproduce the sound.
In unbalanced mode you NEED the reference (the ground),
in balanced mode, you need the 2 PHASES
Even if you do not connect the reference you will still have the sound in your load.
The important thing is that the 2 phases are symmetrical.

Did you ever try balanced and unbalanced mode with the same headphone?

Well I did this with the Senn 600, it is very easy to A/B for their custom connectors, simply you need 2 cables, the unbalanced one and the balanced one.

I like it in the balanced mode for the improved focus and micro-detail. IMHO.
Old 15th February 2009
  #110
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Well, I was under the impression, that with complex impedances like in moving coils in speakers or headphones it is not the same as with not moving coils, but maybe I was wrong...
Old 15th February 2009
  #111
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The common grounds could introduce low level artifacts such as modulation and crosstalk.

The significance wold depend on the actual layout of the driver/amp.

It's well known that a stable ground with low impedances to it from all circuits is necessary for top notch performance.

I'm curious to try but I will not pay the silly amounts they ask for the balanced cables and the Sennheiser cables is a pain to do any rework on.


/Peter
Old 16th February 2009
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
I'm curious to try but I will not pay the silly amounts they ask for the balanced cables and the Sennheiser cables is a pain to do any rework on.
Try to ask that company if they include the balanced cable.
At a reasonable price.

Old 16th February 2009
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewareofdogs View Post
Well, so any transformer floating line is a fraud to you? (i.e. Neve, and old school stuff)
You should study 'balanced transmission lines', and I really mean it in the most helpful sense.
You need 2 rails to get your load (which is a 2-terminal network) reproduce the sound.
In unbalanced mode you NEED the reference (the ground),
in balanced mode, you need the 2 PHASES
Even if you do not connect the reference you will still have the sound in your load.
The important thing is that the 2 phases are symmetrical.

Did you ever try balanced and unbalanced mode with the same headphone?

Well I did this with the Senn 600, it is very easy to A/B for their custom connectors, simply you need 2 cables, the unbalanced one and the balanced one.

I like it in the balanced mode for the improved focus and micro-detail. IMHO.
So can you tell me what the CMR of the HD600 with balanced cables is?
Old 17th February 2009
  #114
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Do you mean the dB ratio?
I don't have the chance to measure it, since I tried that system in a studio owned by a friend of mine.
Maybe you could try to ask the company.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #115
Arrow

Bump for 2010. I've spending a lot of time on headphones, and it's time I started giving some more a try. On my list: DT770 and ATH-M50.

For the folks that originally contributed to the thread - are you still using the same headphones you were then? Any new suggestions?
Old 2nd January 2010
  #116
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I just ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD800s and I cannot wait to hear them.
They are on back order, so I will report what I find when they come in.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse
I've spending a lot of time on headphones, and it's time I started giving some more a try. On my list: DT770 and ATH-M50.
Definitely give those M50's a listen. I went from Sennheiser 280's to those and it was a huge difference. Let us know what you think when you get around to your listening tests.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #118
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Not very scientific I'm afraid, but check these out anyway...

The Mighty Headphone Quest Part 1:



The Mighty Headphone Quest Part 2:
Old 2nd January 2010
  #119
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I have had HD800 for a few weeks, and they reveal effortlessly things other cans (and speakers) miss completely. They are even quite comfortable! Or maybe the music makes me forget they are on my head...
Old 2nd January 2010
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
I just ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD800s and I cannot wait to hear them.
They are on back order, so I will report what I find when they come in.
Just remember they need burning in - the designer recommended 48 hours on pink noise and many users seem to find 150 hours on average with music.

They do also need a good amplifier - I use the Grace m902B with mine, but I have heard the Lehmann Black Cube and DACS Headmaster also recommended.
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