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How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 28th December 2016
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?

Hi All:

I am using a MBPro with a Metric Halo ULN-8 and Sennheiser and Neumann mics for remote orchestral recordings. My rig does a great job, but I would love to reduce set up time and cartage by going to a very good 8-track (or more) recorder with very good mic pre's, etc. The Sound Devices 788-T SSD would be great, but hugely expensive for using 8-10 times a year. The Zoom F8 is, from the reviews, pretty good "for the money", but I don't want to lose quality in the preamps and converters. The Tascam HS-P82 looks interesting as an alternative, but there are no reviews or comparisons with the others that I can find on Gearslutz. Why is that? It looks like a pretty capable unit.

I'd appreciate any experienced opinions of users who have used the Tascam vs. the others listed above.

Thanks!

Robert Cartwright
perfectwavedigital.com
Old 29th December 2016
  #2
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Reports from users are that the Zoom F8 mic preamps are very good, perhaps approaching SoundDevices quality. Some other 8-channel records (like the Tascam HS-P82 and others) have been caught in a declining feature/price ratio by newer products like the Zoom F8 and F4. The main complaints about the Zoom F8 are operational (the small form-factor and small knobs, etc.) not performance.

I wouldn't even consider those old-school products like Tascam HS-P82 and Roland R-88. In fact Roland instantly slashed the price of the R-88 from $2000 to $1000 because of the intense competition from the Zoom F8, and now they have apparently withdrawn the R-88 completely. I'm surprised they can still sell the Tascam HS-P82 these days. It seems pretty old and clunky compared to the Zoom F8.

I have used an F8 and it is at the top of my list for purchase of a new field recorder. It is true that it is difficult to MIX on the very small knobs of the F8, but then you (and I) are not MIXING, we are TRACKING which is a very different operational process. I did NOT find the knobs to be inconvenient for setting recording levels for tracking. Furthermore, there are both hardware and software remote controls to give you several operational options. Quite up to speed with modern technology. It appears that Zoom was listening to what customers have been asking for and they delivered a good product.
Old 29th December 2016
  #3
To my experience. Zoom F8 lacking channel direct out, limit your track to track backup possibility. But SD788 got only 6 outputs, only 2 more than F8. Still not enough for full backup.

Last edited by 9sbean; 29th December 2016 at 02:13 AM..
Old 29th December 2016
  #4
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Plush's Avatar
The Tascam HS-P82 is excellent. It is fantastic to use with its accompanying fader panel, the RC-F82. Sound is excellent and by no means is it outmoded.

All controls are full size and precise.

It is not a plastic Chinese box.

I reject the race to the bottom with Zoomjunk. Make it cheaper, baby. Let's cheap out. Let's lower our rates because our recorder was bought for cheap.

Yeah, let's get cheap.

If you want a professional machine, the Tascam is the poor man's Nagra VI.

Recommended and used here.
Old 29th December 2016
  #5
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Hudson, I do not have your breadth of experience, expertise or recording success. But, like you, I do have an opinion on most things; we all know the saying that equates opinion with an intimate part of everyone's anatomy. Suffice it to say that I have an opinion of your opinion of all things Chinese. We gearslutz have heard it many times. It does not bear further repetition. No doubt there is much Chinese “junque” as well as American, English and German junk. I am quite prepared to accept Mr. Crowley's opinion that the Zoom F8 has reasonable preamps but small channel knobs; that is a reasonable critique. Calling something a “Chinese plastic box” and “Zoomjunk” adds little useful information to an otherwise interesting thread.

This is not meant to disrespect you. I greatly value most of your contributions. I thoroughly enjoyed the radio retrospective of your recordings that was linked here at GS. On your advice, I purchased a pair of KSM 141s and I am very satisfied with them. However, it is my opinion that your Sino-bashing does little for your reputation.

I submit that the Chinese craftsman is as good as any other, if the Chinese manufacturer is not constrained by the price points that the purveyors of cheap consumer goods like Walmart et al demand in order to keep increasing their profit margins and market share. There is such a thing as quality Chinese electronic manufacturing - Rupert Neve's association with sE Electronics is one such example. There are many other examples of decent stuff manufactured in China for respectable companies, such as AKG, Teac/Tascam, and even Zoom (the later both Japanese companies, I note).

Not everyone can afford a Nagra VI or a SD788. The Tascam HS P-82 (which may or may not be manufactured in China – does anyone know?) looks good but it is more than twice the price of the Zoom F8. Is it twice as good? I also note that Zoom is now offering the F-Control surface for the F8 & F4. Clearly Zoom is filling a niche in the market that SD and Nagra can't (or won't). As someone with a small budget, I appreciate that.

Thank you for you continued positive contributions to this forum Mr. Fair. Happy New Year.

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 29th December 2016 at 08:48 PM.. Reason: clarify
Old 29th December 2016
  #6
Gear Addict
 

I have no experience with the Tascam HS-P82, nor with the Zoom F8.
I do have experience with the DR680 and that is a product with a very good price/performance ratio. It serves as a recorder for smaller projects on location (when I want to keep things light and simple) and it is also a very reliable backup solution (I use two DR680's digitally connected).
I admire Tascam for their combination of good functionality and very good sound for the price. It is not as transparent as a top ADC converter, but it is very good for the money, and will satisfy most users. It sounds more musical than a RME interface, in my humble opinion.

I guess the larger brother (HS P-82) will sound at least as good or probably even better. It uses excellent AKM chips for conversion. I can fully understand why Plush likes his Tascam.

Zoom comes from a history of low-end products that were well made for the very low price. With the F8 they enter newer territory. On paper it offers quite a lot (maybe even more than the others), but does it sound as good as the Tascam is the big question. Does it last as long as the Tascams is another question. The two DR680's are quite durable.
Old 29th December 2016
  #7
Gear Addict
 

BTW, does anyone know whether one can cascade two P-82's or two F8's in order to track 16 channels?
Old 30th December 2016
  #8
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Pohaku's Avatar
 

At least one member here spoke of using linked F8s.
Old 30th December 2016
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
BTW, does anyone know whether one can cascade two P-82's or two F8's in order to track 16 channels?
I've read an article, linked maybe 8 HS-P82 for a music festival recording in Japan.

Found it, 7 HS-P82
http://www.e-onkyo.com/news/302/

Last edited by 9sbean; 30th December 2016 at 03:10 AM..
Old 30th December 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
The Tascam HS-P82 is excellent. It is fantastic to use with its accompanying fader panel, the RC-F82. Sound is excellent and by no means is it outmoded.

All controls are full size and precise.

It is not a plastic Chinese box.

I reject the race to the bottom with Zoomjunk. Make it cheaper, baby. Let's cheap out. Let's lower our rates because our recorder was bought for cheap.

Yeah, let's get cheap.

If you want a professional machine, the Tascam is the poor man's Nagra VI.

Recommended and used here.
A company's reputation is not 'set in stone' by the first product it produces, there is considerable evolution and shifting of place of manufacture possible as time passes...witness Behringer and Mackie using Chinese manufacture for example. The Tascam DR70's input pots could hardly be called 'full sized controls', but then this is an example of generalizing the deficiencies of one item across an entire company's product line.


Those aspiring to break through this glass ceiling of perception by shooting for a more refined, specialized product (eg Zoom F8) and to occupy a niche at variance with previous market aspirations are part of this continually shifting landscape. Mergers and acquisitions of manufacturers are another way for this to happen: Sennheiser/ Neumann, Harman and so on.

Generalizations based on the distant past betray ignorance and a romance with league tables which no longer exist. I'm sure the Trumpster will single-handedly revive the entire American broadcast and recording hardware sector come late January...perhaps by quadrupling the price of this so-called 'junque', including that of the HS-P82 ?
Old 30th December 2016
  #11
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Plush's Avatar
Deaf Before Dishonor.
Old 30th December 2016
  #12
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Here are some measurements from a test in German Audio Magazin, made with the HS-P82.
Attached Thumbnails
How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-ad-linearity_tascam-hs-p82.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-fft_tascam-hs-p82.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-jitter_tascam-hs-p82.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-thd-n_tascam-hs-p82.jpg  
Old 30th December 2016
  #13
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Earcatcher's Avatar
And here those same measurements, but made with the 788T. Clearly the Tascam is no slouch.
Attached Thumbnails
How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-sound_devices_788t_wandlerlin_a-d.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-sound_devices_788t_fft_mic.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-sound_devices_788t_jitterhistogr.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-sound_devices_788t_thd_n.jpg  
Old 30th December 2016
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
And here those same measurements, but made with the 788T. Clearly the Tascam is no slouch.
Now we need to see the measurements for the Zoom F8.
Old 30th December 2016
  #15
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Plush's Avatar
I see that my comments about Zoom are not popular here. That's ok.

Here on our great Remote Forum there are a group of (relatively) new posters who are vocal proponents of inexpensive digital recorders to pair with their video work. They don't like it when I diss CHI-COMM plastic recorders. Some have even called me a racist.

I prefer the description, "realist."

These Zoom type recorder are adequate and useful for community work.
They are necessary products for use by the masses world wide.

They are not really for use by "specialists."

My posts on the subject of cheapie recorders are along the lines of a caution to those who choose to only inhabit the world of the plastic recorder.

'Cause it's a plain old plastic world and not a plastic fantastic world.

Venture out of this realm and really live and breathe the alternative of elegant sound.

Live a little.
Old 30th December 2016
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I see that my comments about Zoom are not popular here. That's ok.

Here on our great Remote Forum there are a group of (relatively) new posters who are vocal proponents of inexpensive digital recorders to pair with their video work. They don't like it when I diss CHI-COMM plastic recorders. Some have even called me a racist.

I prefer the description, "realist."

These Zoom type recorder are adequate and useful for community work.
They are necessary products for use by the masses world wide.

They are not really for use by "specialists."

My posts on the subject of cheapie recorders are along the lines of a caution to those who choose to only inhabit the world of the plastic recorder.

'Cause it's a plain old plastic world and not a plastic fantastic world.

Venture out of this realm and really live and breathe the alternative of elegant sound.

Live a little.
I dunno. This worship of technology based on its cost and non-quantifiable benefits strikes me as being the opposite of what "engineering" is supposed to be about, in my opinion.

Earlier this year I was at a Dweezil Zappa show, and at my table there were two gentlemen in their 70's or so. One was explaining to the other why he needed to spend $15,000.00 on a new amplifier to do justice to the new speakers he'd spent $30,000.00 on. BOTH of these gentleman were wearing hearing aids in both ears (one of the guys said he was 90% deaf in one ear). I smiled a lot before putting in my own earplugs to protect my hearing during the show.

Don't misunderstand me, I've got NO issues with people who want to spend their money on the things they find beautiful. If I had the money I'd buy an old Ferrari 308 even though my Miata would be faster on the back roads around here.

I DO have issues, though, with folks who denigrate other peoples choices based on differences that are unquantifiable. Show me the F8's higher distortion, wavier frequency response, wider jitter, or it's lower MTBF, and you're giving me useful information to influence my decision, or helping me make the cost/value determination for professional work. Otherwise, you just come across as a snob.
Old 30th December 2016
  #17
Gear Maniac
Just as an aside, since this equipment crosses over into the amateur and prosumer video market, you can find lots off good reviews on all this stuff on YouTube. Curtis Judd's channel is recommended.
Old 30th December 2016
  #18
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
I dunno. This worship of technology based on its cost and non-quantifiable benefits strikes me as being the opposite of what "engineering" is supposed to be about, in my opinion.

Earlier this year I was at a Dweezil Zappa show, and at my table there were two gentlemen in their 70's or so. One was explaining to the other why he needed to spend $15,000.00 on a new amplifier to do justice to the new speakers he'd spent $30,000.00 on. BOTH of these gentleman were wearing hearing aids in both ears (one of the guys said he was 90% deaf in one ear). I smiled a lot before putting in my own earplugs to protect my hearing during the show.

Don't misunderstand me, I've got NO issues with people who want to spend their money on the things they find beautiful. If I had the money I'd buy an old Ferrari 308 even though my Miata would be faster on the back roads around here.

I DO have issues, though, with folks who denigrate other peoples choices based on differences that are unquantifiable. Show me the F8's higher distortion, wavier frequency response, wider jitter, or it's lower MTBF, and you're giving me useful information to influence my decision, or helping me make the cost/value determination for professional work. Otherwise, you just come across as a snob.
I tried to encourage posters to move beyond the plastic recorder world. You have seen fit to offer me a lecture. Your writings will not be able to goad me into any sort of name calling or labeling.

Your attempting to associate me with foolish audiophiles is a dead end. My views and opinions have nothing to do with seeking status by purchasing expensive equipment. I am differentiating between high fidelity tools and pretenders.

In my post above, I purposely did not do any name calling or finger pointing. I have indeed pointedly mentioned the shortcomings of plastic recorders in many of my earlier posts.

Instead of a snob, I am most wholeheartedly an advocate always for high quality.

Other posters will judge me according to how my advice has helped them in this forum and other forums on GS.
Old 30th December 2016
  #19
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Now we need to see the measurements for the Zoom F8.
Not much to be found, but this is what I got in my library:
Attached Thumbnails
How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-fft_zoom_f8.jpg   How good is Tascam HS-P82 recorder vs sound Devices?-cross_zoom_f8.jpg  
Old 31st December 2016
  #20
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Don S's Avatar
 

I've been looking at this box for a couple months now. The worse thing I can see about it is the name Tascam, which will scare some away. Unfortunately, Tascam/Teac do not have a great track record for support or manufacture quality.
But, IO's are important when you call something "pro". I like the fact it has AES, is metal, has an accessory mixer, is battery powered (although am ignorant of what an NP battery is) and has been endorsed as sounding pretty darn good by respected engineers. The fact this model has been around a couple years seems to a plus as well.
Old 31st December 2016
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
<snip> I am differentiating between high fidelity tools and pretenders.

In my post above, I purposely did not do any name calling or finger pointing. I have indeed pointedly mentioned the shortcomings of plastic recorders in many of my earlier posts.

Instead of a snob, I am most wholeheartedly an advocate always for high quality.
<snip>
I'm really not trying to start a fight (or continue one) with you, Hudson. But I've looked, and I can rarely find any basis for your discrimination between "what you like" and "what you disparage" that doesn't come down to (as I perceive what you read) "because I say so".

And perhaps what I "hear" when I read what you write plays into my own prejudices. In my world (Information Technology), the difference between the leading edge and commonplace is typically 1 year, maybe two at the most. That means the features/performance/quality that costs X in 2016 will cost somewhere between .1X and .5X in 2018, and by 2019 it will be truly commonplace. And the difference between "professional" and "consumer" is mostly a matter of reliability/redundancy and vendor support, NOT in the performance of the gear itself, i.e. a $99 Netgear switch will move as many packets as a $3000 Cisco switch, and the extra $2100 for the Cisco gets you a higher MTBF and customer service that's in another class altogether. As a result of that, the prevalent marketing technique in IT is to scare someone away from your competitors product rather than lure them to your own. And I hate it. So whenever I hear someone disdain something else, particularly when I don't perceive a well-constructed rationalization for that disdain, it gets my feathers ruffled.

I've found your discussions about technique very useful, by the way.

Best wishes and a Happy New Year!
Old 31st December 2016
  #22
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I like the fact it has AES, is metal, has an accessory mixer, is battery powered (although am ignorant of what an NP battery is) and has been endorsed as sounding pretty darn good by respected engineers.
NP batteries are a type of battery packs, widely used in all kinds of professional applications in the audiovisual industry: Hawk-woods Ltd : NP1 Solutions - Batteries
Old 31st December 2016
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I've been looking at this box for a couple months now. The worse thing I can see about it is the name Tascam, which will scare some away. Unfortunately, Tascam/Teac do not have a great track record for support or manufacture quality.
But, IO's are important when you call something "pro". I like the fact it has AES, is metal, has an accessory mixer, is battery powered (although am ignorant of what an NP battery is) and has been endorsed as sounding pretty darn good by respected engineers. The fact this model has been around a couple years seems to a plus as well.
Actually Tascam has a pretty good record for support and build quality. I've used their products going decades back into the analog reel to reel days, and they do what they say they will do, and Tascam fixes them when they don't. That Tascam location recorder is one of the most underrated pieces of gear avail for location recording. They've made significant improvements to the firmware since it has been released. For my work, my main beef with it is its size, but if you don't ever have to wear it (and maybe can use their excellent fader surface) then it's pretty great. To my ears the F8 sounds fine. Among the things that have kept me away from it are the numerous "white screen of Death" reports....I guess I don't feel lucky.
Old 31st December 2016
  #24
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
The Tascam HS-P82 is excellent. It is fantastic to use with its accompanying fader panel, the RC-F82. Sound is excellent and by no means is it outmoded.

All controls are full size and precise.

It is not a plastic Chinese box.

I reject the race to the bottom with Zoomjunk. Make it cheaper, baby. Let's cheap out. Let's lower our rates because our recorder was bought for cheap.

Yeah, let's get cheap.

If you want a professional machine, the Tascam is the poor man's Nagra VI.

Recommended and used here.
FYI little on the F8 is plastic. It's a very solid box!
Old 31st December 2016
  #25
Lives for gear
My point on the 'plastic vs quality' debate is that the lines are continually shifting and becoming blurred, as products imitate one another in design, feel and shape across manufacturer lines, as time marches...

Even those who trade on a name established in the 60's based on ruggedness, consistent field quality and reliability are having to evolve new products which embrace new developments, as well as market needs for lightness and portability.

I simply highlight the current crop of "shavers" from Nagra....Recorders | Nagra – Professional Audio and High end HiFi

Plastique-looking..yes, junque...likely not ? Hand the average person (with a blindfold on and ears exposed) one of these and a similar sample from Zoom, Tascam, Sony and ask them to pick the difference.

Nagra aren't engaging in this migration for fun...it's what the marketplace demands if they are to move product and remain viable. What's the monthly or annual sales ratio between a Nagra shaver and a Nagra VI or Seven ?

I know it's a diversion from the multitrack upper end of the location recording discussion that this thread began with, but it represents yet more of the shifting sands we constantly need to keep an eye (and ear) on...to forestall the generalizations.
Old 31st December 2016
  #26
I've heard the f8 directly compared to sound devices. Imho the was no contest, Zoom lived up to its reputation for muddy, midrange heavy sound. Amateur video guys may praise it, but then they are comparing it to on board camera sound and other zoom recorders more likely than not. The tascam in question, however, stacks up very well to sound devices in the sound department. Even if the build quality can't quite match up.

I also think we should remember there is a lot of misleading information, especially with budget gear, when it comes to posting stats. Usually what you read is not real world performance, but second hand, optimal performance measures of, let's say, a converter chip.
Old 31st December 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
<snip>

I know it's a diversion from the multitrack upper end of the location recording discussion that this thread began with, but it represents yet more of the shifting sands we constantly need to keep an eye (and ear) on...to forestall the generalizations.
So much of our recording chain now is computers... and that means that the short cycle times, price pressures, and other things I alluded to earlier apply to our gear now too, with the partial exception of transducers, and the analog portions of A/D and D/A conversion. And even there, the precision and quality control made possible by modern assembly (and yes, even chinese assembly) reduces the price of manufacture.

I remember the early days of Japanese autos... they SUUUUUCKED. But they rapidly outpaced US cars in quality, and now they lead the world. Korean auto manufacturing went from ****ty to stellar in about 1/10th the time it took Japan.

Gone are the days when Chinese pushed chips into sockets with their thumbs... the quality of work possible in Chinese factories is as good as any others, and for now their labor is much less expensive. That's why you get a Miktek 300 that is ridiculously close (it's Miktek components assembled overseas) in quality to its all-domestic counterpart for half the price. That's why the very high-end IT gear I buy from Cisco, IBM, and others have substantial amounts of manufacturing in China and other less-expensive countries. I can get a new TV tomorrow - it will offer twice the resolution, be 8 inches larger diagonally, weigh 50%, and use 35% of the electricity of the HDTV I bought three years ago. And it will be one-third the price. And the picture quality by all measurements is BETTER.

I agree that it's an ugly trend for service providers - the solution is likely that you actually keep your rates up to reflect the fact that much of your gear will have a short lifetime, and will be replaced.
Old 31st December 2016
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
I've heard the f8 directly compared to sound devices. Imho the was no contest, Zoom lived up to its reputation for muddy, midrange heavy sound. Amateur video guys may praise it, but then they are comparing it to on board camera sound and other zoom recorders more likely than not. The tascam in question, however, stacks up very well to sound devices in the sound department. Even if the build quality can't quite match up.

I also think we should remember there is a lot of misleading information, especially with budget gear, when it comes to posting stats. Usually what you read is not real world performance, but second hand, optimal performance measures of, let's say, a converter chip.
Good info. I appreciate the specific faults you found with the sound of the Zoom.
Old 31st December 2016
  #29
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post

I DO have issues, though, with folks who denigrate other peoples choices based on differences that are unquantifiable. Show me the F8's higher distortion, wavier frequency response, wider jitter, or it's lower MTBF, and you're giving me useful information to influence my decision, or helping me make the cost/value determination for professional work. Otherwise, you just come across as a snob.

Aren't most of the terms we use to describe sound unquantifiable? Warm, lush, neutral, bright, clear, muddy etc... these are qualitative terms.

Stats serve a purpose, but i care more about how equipment sounds and functions. And for field recording i also care a lot about ergonomics.

Tom
Old 31st December 2016
  #30
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DougS's Avatar
 

Analog Limiters...

I've been researching these recorders (have not bought one yet) and the big draw for me on the Sound Devices tools (vs Tascam or Zoom) are the analog limiters the SD units have built in. My understanding is that Tascam and Zoom have digital limiters - which are a cost conscious significant compromise to keep the price point down.

My understanding is that digital limiters use part of the digital bandwidth for "head room" which is not as effective for saving 'overs' as analog and means the rest of the sound is squeezed into a narrow bandwidth reducing the sound quality.

Like studio recording interfaces (Burl, etc.) - a big difference between the cheap and the high-end stuff is the quality of the analog signal path. And that also seems to be true in these field recorders. Good analog pathways are expensive.

Here's a nice video that compares (more broadly) these units, plus he spends some time discussing the analog limiters in the Sound Devices units.


Last edited by DougS; 31st December 2016 at 04:37 PM.. Reason: typo
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