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The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all... Condenser Microphones
Old 17th May 2006
  #91
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Remoteness's Avatar
Excellent!

Thanks for taking the time to share your recording venture.

It's great to see this thread stand the test of time...

We have a lot to "show & tell" and I'm happy you folks feel the same about it.

Keep up the good work. Now, go show your stuff off!
Old 24th May 2006
  #92
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Haydn Creation 13 May 06 Castle Bruchsal; Bruchsal, Germany

first some pictures of the outside of the venue






My friend and colleague, Jakob Handel, loaned me his stagetec reference A/D system to record with. It is a nice sounding box..He also loaned me Pyramix, a program that I had to learn in a short amount of time...wasnt as bad as I thought it would be though.

Old 24th May 2006
  #93
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I ran 12 channels, (couldve run 24, the stagetec has 24)



MK250/MV220s pointing straight up to capture ambience. these were recorded about 15 db down from the rest. about 30 ft from main pair(s)


M296, meter spread, to fill it in a bit


m930s Sl, ORTF


426b and cmc62s(jdisc)
426 was a solo mic.. had the setting on blumlein/.the schoeps were raised to about 12' during the performance.


m300 sr, ortf


and yes, once again, this was during the rehearsal for the concert, so cables were tidied up appropriately. I take pictures at all of my concerts to compare and see what works and what didnt.
Teddy

Im not a "by the book" kind of guy, and rarely ever pay attention to "exact" measurements. Yes, the mics are low. "Why" some may ask, "are the mics so low?"
Well, that is because that is where they sounded the best(in this instance). It makes sense to me to keep the mics near the sound source (relatively), but with the right amount of ambience. Im pleasing my ears and my client's ears, and keep getting gigs, so all is well!
I realize what I do may be blasphemy to some, and I am completely comfortable with that fact.

any and all questions welcome.


Teddy
Old 24th May 2006
  #94
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jenkel16's Avatar
 

What, if I may ask, is the intention of the stereo pairs on the sides? How will they be used when mixing this material?


Graham
Old 24th May 2006
  #95
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

to pick up the instruments on the sides....

they will be mixed and panned to their relevant locations in the sound field.
Old 24th May 2006
  #96
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Remoteness's Avatar
Teddy,

Well done -- Thank you for the awesome pictures.

Keep up the good work.
Old 24th May 2006
  #97
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness
Teddy,

Well done -- Thank you for the awesome pictures.

Keep up the good work.

Many thanks Sir!
Old 8th June 2006
  #98
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Anyone else have some pictures, mp3s or a story or two to share?
Old 12th June 2006
  #99
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Here is a jazz quartet recorded live at a small venue. An art gallery to be exact.

What do you slutz think? I'll post any technical info per your request.
Attached Files

Stablemates_pt_1.mp3 (4.88 MB, 3167 views)

Stablemates_pt_2.mp3 (5.30 MB, 3149 views)

Old 13th June 2006
  #100
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Kalara's Avatar
 

Smile When you just don't get a truck

South Carolina with the Isley Brothers...Hot, humid, some room under the stairs in an arena.....love it!! The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all...-isley-rig.jpg

HInt Hint, Mackie's don't parcticularly like humidity. I had multiple problems with my back up rig, not a flaw with the Pro Tools. I seem to have those issues with the Mackies, when chasing time code. I use mostly DA78's now, but 48 inputs in 8 rack spaces...Ay Ay YAYAYAYAY
Old 13th June 2006
  #101
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sonare's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfarber
Here is a jazz quartet recorded live at a small venue. An art gallery to be exact.

What do you slutz think? I'll post any technical info per your request.
Superb musicianship! I like the overall sound and the musical balance but am wondering several things:

The piano and bass seem a touch "dull" compared to the sax and drums. The sax seems very reverbed-- but only the sax. And the drumset does not have any width.

Given that there are usually technical (and other) considerations that shape the final result I am curious to hear about "the story behind the story."

Rich
Old 13th June 2006
  #102
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JazzYoda's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare
Superb musicianship! I like the overall sound and the musical balance but am wondering several things:

The piano and bass seem a touch "dull" compared to the sax and drums. The sax seems very reverbed-- but only the sax. And the drumset does not have any width.

Given that there are usually technical (and other) considerations that shape the final result I am curious to hear about "the story behind the story."

Rich

I *like* the dullness of the piano and the lack of drum width. It sounds much more real that way. Like you were there.
Old 13th June 2006
  #103
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To each his own!

But I wonder-- how does the piano seem real (with moderate width) and also the drums (no width)?

Amd is *there* the front row, middle, or back of the venue?

Rich
Old 13th June 2006
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare
To each his own!

But I wonder-- how does the piano seem real (with moderate width) and also the drums (no width)?

Amd is *there* the front row, middle, or back of the venue?

Rich
The drums were recorded with 1 mic. This was typical of late 50s recordings. I don't like to have a stereo pair on the drums anyway, although I do like to have a mic between the snare & hh. I figure that the leakage acts as ambience. The piano may seem a bit dull because the mic was in a hole. This kept out too much drums. The bass on the other hand, sounded pretty much like that in the venue. The bassist was playing on gut strings without an amp.

I don't like reverb on piano. I guess it's because iI grew up listening to Blue Note and Prestiege records.

4 mics in total.

I don't like those recordings where the drums and piano are all panned out hard L-R. Sounds like 1980s fusion records that way.
Old 13th June 2006
  #105
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sonare's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfarber
I don't like those recordings where the drums and piano are all panned out hard L-R. Sounds like 1980s fusion records that way.
Agreed. Personally, I like to give a little width to the instruments that have it, but to each his own! I am curious about the sax reverb, though. Considering that it was in an art gallery I considered that it was the room, but lack of reverb on the other instruments caused me to question it.

The most important thing is that musically speaking it is superb!

Rich
Old 13th June 2006
  #106
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ajfarber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare
Agreed. Personally, I like to give a little width to the instruments that have it, but to each his own! I am curious about the sax reverb, though. Considering that it was in an art gallery I considered that it was the room, but lack of reverb on the other instruments caused me to question it.

The most important thing is that musically speaking it is superb!

Rich
Well, I was copying the way the older 50s and 60s recordings were done. Reverb on drums and horns but none on piano and bass. RVG had horns either hard L or R with reverb returning to the opposite channel. Listen to some of those things w/cans sometime and you'll see what I mean.

The art gallery was dead, so I used space designer in Logic. The quartet was recorded to 4 tracks of a Tascam DA-98 with mics I borrowed. U87 on tenor, only it was broken, so I was forced to use a 414. AKG c535eb on bass, Shure KSM137 on piano, and a Cascade M-20 in front of the drumset. The DA-98 was fed with SMpro audio mic pres. Cheap-ass Chinese made stuff. $99 for 8 pres. Buy 2 you get eggroll.

Later, I recorded the DA-98 into Logic audio on my macG4 at home. Added a bit of reverb and compression and that was it.

I'd like to build a better mic and pre collection but my wife is not a gearslut.
Old 13th June 2006
  #107
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sonare's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfarber
I'd like to build a better mic and pre collection but my wife is not a gearslut.
The trick is show her how a good rig will EARN money! Then one must actually do it...

Rich
Old 13th June 2006
  #108
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ajfarber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare
The trick is show her how a good rig will EARN money! Then one must actually do it...

Rich
Well, truth be told, I'm not interested in doing live recording for $. I just record my own projects. I would, however, love to have a pile of slutty gear anyway.
Old 13th June 2006
  #109
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Pianos never sound bright when I hear them with a band. In fact, even standing only 10 feet away from one while playing, with the drummer and bass player cookin', I rarely hear much brightness from all but the most clinky pianos. Solo piano in a concert hall may sound bright, but once the band is going, those frequencies get swallowed up. Making the piano sound brighter and closer, IMO, is a studio artifact.

Insofar as spreading/panning is concerned. I hear plenty of size from all the instruments, mainly due to the bleed (which I like). I don't think my ear hears much spread on an instrument when I'm playing with the band either, It just tells me where the instrument is. Even more so if I am in the audience. In terms of angles to the listener, once would have to get much closer than is normally possible in order to hear an instrument spread even 25% of full pan.

I use spread panning for some types of music, sometimes just a bit, sometimes even full L-R, usually for commercial stuff. I find it distracting for jazz. Not to mention the main reason for minimal microphone usage..protect the phase relationships!
Old 13th June 2006
  #110
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Great Thread!

Here are some shots of a recent gig which was the inaugral run of my RADAR24. The last time I did an orchestral recording we used ADATs. I was briefly using a MOTU/Laptop rig, but I couldn't stand the stress of using an off the shelf computer in high pressure situations. The RADAR was awsome. What a great feeling having real confidence in your rig. Not to mention it sounds sosweet....!

The recording was at the Port Theatre in Nanaimo BC, here on vancouver island. We were tracking an all Mozart program and the orchestra was relatively small this time around (28 seats IIRC...)
Old 13th June 2006
  #111
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The stage:
Attached Thumbnails
The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all...-vis-012.jpg   The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all...-vis-021.jpg  
Old 13th June 2006
  #112
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The "Control Room" in the loading bay:
Attached Thumbnails
The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all...-vis-005.jpg   The Show & Tell Thread for the Remotester in us all...-vis-007.jpg  
Old 14th June 2006
  #113
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

How do those APIs sound on classical instrumentation? I dont know anything about them, but arent they of the "colored" or "mojo" variety? I dont like preamps that are overly clean either, I like some sparkle, which Is why I bought some Pendulum MDP-1s recently.

Nice pics! You folks in the states record a lot on sound stage type locations? I see a lot of those in the pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco
The "Control Room" in the loading bay:
Old 14th June 2006
  #114
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ajfarber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard
How do those APIs sound on classical instrumentation? I dont know anything about them, but arent they of the "colored" or "mojo" variety? I dont like preamps that are overly clean either, I like some sparkle, which Is why I bought some Pendulum MDP-1s recently.

Nice pics! You folks in the states record a lot on sound stage type locations? I see a lot of those in the pics.
I have never used api on classical instruments, but I see on the "O Henry" website that they have an api desk in what looks like a scoring stage type studio. I assume that the api Vision has been designed to be a Neve VR/ SSL 9000 competitor.

If you consider vintage Neve to be the "coloured" or "mojo" variety, there are a few studios in NYC where orchestral dates are done with vintage Neve. Clinton; Neve 8078, Avatar; Neve 8068, Sear(studio A); Neve 8038. There is nothing wrong with putting a little "hair" on acoustic classical recording. The best sounding orchestra records in my collection were done with all tube gear.

In regards to your Pendulum purchace, that stuff is like Manley. Top shelf audiophile gear you might see in the best mastering and rec studios, you can't go wrong.

BTW, zakco is not in the states but in Victoria, BC. I guess thats "close enough for jazz."
Old 14th June 2006
  #115
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The selection of preamps that you see there was our attempt to provide enough channels of high end inputs for the gig. You're absolutely right that APIs probably aren't anyone's first choice for classical music, nor are the Great Rivers for that matter. We did however do our best to pair the preamp to an appropriate source....Our mic selection was also not your typical classical slutty variety. We simply put together the best gear we owned from the studio and rented a few pieces to fill in the blanks....

The main ORTF mics were a pair of Neumann KM140 with C414B-XLS as omni outriggers (2) . Spot mics were 2 more KM140s, shure KSM137 (4), Josephson C42 (2), AT4050 (2), AEA R84, shure sm81 (4), Soundelux U195, and several more AT condensers that I don't recall the model number.....

The 4 main mics went into the millenia pres as did the first chair strings. From there we just tried to match instruments to preamps as best we could. The basses got the APIs, the brass got the Great River and the winds got the Hardys. I think we ended up using just 1 or 2 channels of Mackie onyx when we ran out of the good stuff....The Crest console is the theatre's and we used it for monitoring during the recording.

And yes we are north of the border in Canada.....barely. Nanaimo sits 15 minutes north of the 49th paralell.

-Z-
Old 15th June 2006
  #116
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2leod's Avatar
 

Nice!

Thanks for sharing, Zak. I don't get "north of the border" often, and I've not been in the Port Theatre - how's the sound in there? What are the symphony's plans for the recording?
Old 15th June 2006
  #117
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfarber
If you consider vintage Neve to be the "coloured" or "mojo" variety, there are a few studios in NYC where orchestral dates are done with vintage Neve. Clinton; Neve 8078, Avatar; Neve 8068, Sear(studio A); Neve 8038. There is nothing wrong with putting a little "hair" on acoustic classical recording. The best sounding orchestra records in my collection were done with all tube gear.
Thanks for the reply, I am in full agreement with you about the old orchestral records.
Old 15th June 2006
  #118
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco
I think we ended up using just 1 or 2 channels of Mackie onyx -Z-
Interesting that you mention Mackie...A guy I know(big engineer for Denon) is a remote recording guy. One day we got into a conversation about gear and in the course of that conversation I found out that he uses ONLY mackie mixers/preamps on all his remote gigs. He could use anything that he wanted, but said that the Mackie sounds great, is portable, and that his clients love the results.
Old 15th June 2006
  #119
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T-Ray - Those are some lovely pictures, including the outside shots.
Old 15th June 2006
  #120
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Many thanks Sir! Have a few more cathedral gigs coming up, ill be sure to throw those up as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AmekGuy
T-Ray - Those are some lovely pictures, including the outside shots.
Topic:
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