The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Why does video editing software suck so deeply? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 24th October 2016
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Why does video editing software suck so deeply?

Sheesh. I have tried them all. Simple functions like lining up audio with video, titling, import, export, asset management, timeline zooming, it all profoundly sucks.

We are in luxury with audio software in comparison.

Last edited by David Spearritt; 25th October 2016 at 09:28 PM..
Old 24th October 2016
  #2
Consider the alternative..........film. I'd never be able to use that stuff!

There are tools that make things easier- Pluraleyes for audio/video syncing for example. The other stuff isn't so bad really.

I've often read people saying we're in a golden age of audio production- awesome VSTs combined with all the amazing mics, pres, monitors, remote recorders, and hardware options out there.

With the technology that is out there- video editing software and LUTS combined with really good cameras, LED lighting, drones, and higher end glass- that time is coming very soon for video, if not already.
Old 24th October 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
The data density of even top-shelf audio files (24/192 and numerous of them, for say surround) is nothing compared to the unending rise in density for video...first HD and now 4K and presumably something newer and denser in 2 years time.

As the number-crunching power of computers 'came of age' for audio in the Windows XP era, the processing with even a modest CPU and 4GB of RAM was no struggle for a computer.

However that's not the case for video, and it takes some real processor grunt to deliver the same amount of power and speed when it comes to high def video production. I don't see the gap closing any time soon, in the way it did for audio, as screens get bigger and the data required to render it with superfine detail gets correspondingly larger.

The consumer level production software and facilities re titling etc is still back in the dark ages, as you say
Old 24th October 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Sheesh. I have tried them all. Simple functions like lining up audio with video, titling, import, export, asset management, timeline zooming, it all profoundly sucks.
The answer, I'm afraid, to the question "is it me or do all video NLEs suck" is that it's you. That you don't like them however doesn't mean that they suck. Indeed, NLEs as a group are profoundly popular. Video people love NLEs, and they love the digital workflow.

And that, I think, is the problem. Video people love them, audio people do not. The video people love them because they are such profound improvements over film and video tape workflows, while still satisfying the requirements video editors have to meet.

Said another way, when you come from a DAW world, NLEs seem clunky and non-intuitive. When you come from an NLE world, DAWs seem clunky and non-intuitive.

But just because a tool isn't aimed squarely at you, doesn't mean it sucks. Especially for the people it is aimed at.
Old 24th October 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
 
jwh1192's Avatar
i do not miss waiting for video and audio decks to lock up .. NLE is the way .. the only way .. they only suck until you learn them enough so you are not frustrated !!! and someone made a great point about the size of Media .. exponential rise in storage and throughput .. massive differences .. good times ...
Old 24th October 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
The problems with audio editors are the same. My first steps with SAM were more like staggers.
Old 24th October 2016
  #7
I don't know. I use premiere pro and I like it. No more glitchy than my DAW and easy to use once you've understand how to work with the ridiculous variety of video codecs and export options.
Old 24th October 2016
  #8
i use sony vegas every day used to use adobe premiere every day. easy as hell to use. what i find tedious is texturing 3d models.
Old 24th October 2016
  #9
Lives for gear
 

I am referring purely to the software ergonomics and not the load on computers, glitches are unknown here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
I don't know. I use premiere pro and I like it.
When I copy a title to another location and edit the text, the original title text changes as well. Now I must be missing something but this is dumb.

Quote:
... and easy to use once you've understand how to work with the ridiculous variety of video codecs and export options.
Yes, as an intermittent user though, it is frustrating.

It seems this software must be used eight hours a day to get command of it, why? Its not really different from audio. One inserts clips, trims them and move them around, fades, gain and colour changes. No special effects here.
Old 24th October 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

I don't do much video editing, but when I do I get frustrated with the non-intuitive software. I have Adobe and try not to use it because it's clunky. I use a Sony video editing package more. Closer to DAW like.

-Tom
Old 24th October 2016
  #11
It's always a problem of presenting the information digestibly, not too nitpicky but not too vaguely, and in the proper detail vs. the proper overview. There is no solution-- you want to see as much of everything as possible-- all the data, all the changes you've instructed, and all the other options, too.

I say fine, like take After Effects, it's essentially just like the outlines you had to draw for school-- subjects gradually devolving into the finer points, and then you can pull back and take it all in-- sure it's time consuming and awkward and I desperately yearn for it to be more... more... I dunno, more easier and more faster!
Old 24th October 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 

My main issue with all of them is nomenclature, like what is called what. Somewhere someone must have a translation guide that has all the equivalents across the NLEs
Old 24th October 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
When I copy a title to another location and edit the text, the original title text changes as well. Now I must be missing something but this is dumb.
Yeah. Video is different. Your wav file in your DAW is not tied to windows system directories...like Fonts. The titler is like a plugin to handle fonts. Try copying the title and save it as a new title and then make your changes.

For those posters complaining of clunky response....well

HD video is demanding and takes resources, even beyond our i7's.

I like a nice speedy nvidea card with as many cuda cores as I can afford. It really makes the timeline a lot more responsive.

Compared to rendering effects on a P4 in 2000 (model T) , we are all driving ferraris these days.
Old 24th October 2016
  #14
i cant use maya 3d. adobe after effects for shiat. sony vegas is easy once you learn to turn off resampling and know proper render settings to use. audio editing is dead simple as well in it. it has a learning curve but its really easy once you use it for a few years thats for sure. adobe premiere is also pretty easy too with some learning maybe a tad more tedious.
Old 25th October 2016
  #15
Gear Addict
 
voltronic's Avatar
 

Another big fan of Vegas Pro here. I think I heard somewhere (maybe GS) that it started life as a DAW, which is why many people coming from the audio side seem to like it. Set up custom render templates for your typical project delivery, and it's a breeze to use. For the short videos I do, it's very easy to visually align the second audio track to replace the in-camera audio (no TC on my equipment). Splits, fades, etc. all work just like in a DAW.

Recently I've been playing around with Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, a pro-level NLE which they are giving away for free since they make their money off of their very expensive control surfaces (which you do not need to run the software). It certainly has a much more modern look and feel to it, and there are plenty of tutorials out there. The only caveat is I've had the occasional bug with it, so while it may not be ready for prime time yet, it's very promising. Resolve started out as a professional color grading app which this version retains as one of its modes.
Old 25th October 2016
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Sheesh. I have tried them all.
Curious if that includes Avid Media Composer.

To my mind, all the things that suck about video editors are the things that DON'T suck about Avid.

But there is a serious learning curve, especially if you're not already versed in the logic of film editing. But once you learn it, it is fast, fluent, logical, efficient, and uncluttered. Plus, deeply customizable. My keyboard commands are incomprehensible to others, but I can work at a blinding pace when I need to, and with minimal mousing, and no menus pretty much ever. To me, that kind of stuff matters a lot.
Old 25th October 2016
  #17
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
David - I shoot short documentary video footage for the Oregon Historical Society, all in 4K. I use Powerdirector 13 and find it quite facile. It offers "smart rendering" unlike most of its competitors, which really speeds up rendering 4K material, and does not require a 16-core xenon with 400gb of ram and 4 nvidia 1080 graphics cards like FCP and premiere. Also very affordable.
Old 25th October 2016
  #18
I think it all boils down on how well the user knows and understands the software. Bottom line, it takes time and dedication to learn how to use complex and powerful applications. If the pros are using the product and it's the industry standard, it's probably not the application that sucks.

In 3D applications, I've often heard people say 3DS Max sucks, Maya is so much better or vice versa. The same could be said about some of their render engines Mental Ray vs V-Ray.

It's all about personal preference, familiarity with the program, and personal workflow.

As far as video editing, I prefer to use Premiere and I can assure you, it doesn't suck. I also use 3DS Max for 3D and it doesn't suck either. Both are industry giants. Are they the best just because I use them? The answer is a big NO because there are also other heavy hitters out there.

So to say in general terms that video editing software suck deeply is just a flippant and one of the most ludicrous comments I've read on GS.
Old 25th October 2016
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
David - I shoot short documentary video footage for the Oregon Historical Society, all in 4K. I use Powerdirector 13 and find it quite facile. It offers "smart rendering" unlike most of its competitors, which really speeds up rendering 4K material, and does not require a 16-core xenon with 400gb of ram and 4 nvidia 1080 graphics cards like FCP and premiere. Also very affordable.
I use Powerdirector 13 too along with Colourdirector. Like you say, rendering is pretty fast and it's inexpensive. I haven't gotten deep into its capabilities, but I really really like it.
Old 25th October 2016
  #20
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Sheesh. I have tried them all. Simple functions like lining up audio with video, titling, import, export, asset management, timeline zooming, it all profoundly sucks.

We are in luxury with audio software in comparison.
I was recently thinking the exact same thing. Basically wishing that video editors could be 'simpler' and 'more intuitive by which of course I mean could work 'just like Pro Tools' but for pictures.

On a recent exam in my audio class, I asked my students for their thoughts about Pro Tools as a software. One student who does a lot of video editing said she wished PT was more like Final Cut. And made the exact same kinds of criticisms about the 'simple functions' and so on.

It made me realize that a very large portion of both her view and mine is about "what you are accustomed to".

Nevertheless, I still want a video editor that has an edit window that functions just like Pro Tools.
Old 25th October 2016
  #21
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
As the number-crunching power of computers 'came of age' for audio in the Windows XP era, the processing with even a modest CPU and 4GB of RAM was no struggle for a computer.
Except with Pro Tools.
Old 25th October 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
It made me realize that a very large portion of both her view and mine is about "what you are accustomed to".
Of course this is true. But by "suck" I mean this software is poorly conceived and hard or frustrating to become accustomed to it. That's the definition.

Good software doesn't need one to become a PhD in it or use it 8 hours a day. And it should exhibit normally expected behaviour. Copying a title to another position and editing it shouldn't change the text in all the other titles. This is Adobe Premiere.

Zooming in on the timeline should move the cursor and zoom position to the centre. This is normal intelligent expected behaviour, universally adopted by all the other mainstream applications. Edius didn't have this.

Sliding audio clips to line up with video, blanks out the audio display so you can't see where its up to and aligned during the slide. You have to drop it in the wrong place to see that it still needs to be re-positioned. This is Adobe Premiere.

And so on.
Old 25th October 2016
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Lenzo's Avatar
I've been editing since the Amiga Toaster days. All of the things the op is frustrated with are quite simple using Final Cut, which is some could argue is really Final Cut Slow. If anyone remembers the DPS Velocity Q, that was a beauty. Comparing FC to that was a little like comparing a Tesla to a Kia Rio. Hardware based and mostly real time. Almost no rendering was a beautiful thing.
But being hardware based it was pricey and the masses wanted cheap, software driven editing. So Leitch-Harris bought it and killed it. To the op, find software you like and learn your keyboard shortcuts. Though I don't love Final Cut, it can do some pretty cool tricks, especially with 3rd party add ons... and Motion has to be one of the easiest pieces of software to learn I've ever used. There are more creative options than ever with current software. With time, and a decent computer with a fast raid array(uber important...using a single drive or system drive for HD and 4K is not optimal), you can cut stuff pretty quickly.
L.
Old 25th October 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
Vegas 14 user here. Great video editor with lots of nice audio features. I have been a Vegas user since version 6 way back when.

I also use Adobe Premier and Final Cut.

I agree with most of what is being said here. The one thing that video HAS to do SOON is standardize video file formats. Macs use MOVs and PCs use AVIs and they are not compatible then one adds in the HD formats and WOW what a mess. With audio AIFF and WAV files are compatible and one can basically use them interchangeably. The other thing is multiple CODECs which are a royal pain in the butt. I think I currently have over 50 CODECs available on my PC. I use one or two of them.

Good topic!

David,

One thing is to chose a video editor and stick with it. I would recommend VEGAS since it is the most like a standard DAW. Best of luck!

Old 25th October 2016
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
By the way there is a strong rumor that Vegas 14 will be ported over to the Mac sometime in the future but right now it is a PC only application. FWIW
Old 25th October 2016
  #26
Gear Nut
 
_Bender_'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Vegas 14 user here. Great video editor with lots of nice audio features. I have been a Vegas user since version 6 way back when.

I also use Adobe Premier and Final Cut.

I agree with most of what is being said here. The one thing that video HAS to do SOON is standardize video file formats. Macs use MOVs and PCs use AVIs and they are not compatible then one adds in the HD formats and WOW what a mess. With audio AIFF and WAV files are compatible and one can basically use them interchangeably. The other thing is multiple CODECs which are a royal pain in the butt. I think I currently have over 50 CODECs available on my PC. I use one or two of them.

Good topic!

David,

One thing is to chose a video editor and stick with it. I would recommend VEGAS since it is the most like a standard DAW. Best of luck!

Agreed, Vegas was definitely the most intuitive growing up using audio DAWS. Not the nightmare that was Final Cut pro- which was beyond frustrating considering if you're an audio daw editing ninja.
Old 25th October 2016
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Perhapa David Spearrit it's the Indian and not the arrow: I am a 40 year audio veteran and 2 year video novice however Premiere Pro gets me where I need to go. I frequently patch multitracked audio two mixes to a scratch track embeded when the scenes were originally shot: It is a snap if you plan well in advance and secure gear synergistically matched to your tasks.
Hugh
Old 25th October 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
 
grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa View Post
There are tools that make things easier- Pluraleyes
Or good old TIME CODE. Which no one uses in prosumer world, which is probably 99.8% of video being produced now.

Pluraleyes hasn't stopped a video guy from somehow egregiously botching my (pre-client-approved) audio in his video edit just this past week...


Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
nomenclature
Well, first of all, in video world, the person who records the audio is the mixer. Then the person who mixes it is the rerecorder.

So apparently everything in video world just starts out backwards. =)
Old 25th October 2016
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I don't think video or vidiots are allowed here.
Old 25th October 2016
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I don't think video or vidiots are allowed here.
I know Plush, and I am sorry. I am pleased with all the help and comments from my kindred audio folk. The nonsense on video boards was too much.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump