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Has anyone tried the Sonosax SX-R4+ yet ? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 12 hours ago
  #61
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
Actually it does.
Proof of this assertion is necessary I'm afraid. If it were true, Tonmeister courses would be unnecessary....and all music degree holders would be automatically qualified as recording engineers, producers and mixers. Clearly this isn't so. Your qualification gives you some theory and practical experience, but it does not make you a practitioner or expert in all of these areas. Your insecure and uncertain product-hopping between Nagra, Tascam, Sonosax etc is indicative of this.
Old 11 hours ago
  #62
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Proof of this assertion is necessary I'm afraid. If it were true, Tonmeister courses would be unnecessary....and all music degree holders would be automatically qualified as recording engineers, producers and mixers. Clearly this isn't so. Your qualification gives you some theory and practical experience, but it does not make you a practitioner or expert in all of these areas. Your insecure and uncertain product-hopping between Nagra, Tascam, Sonosax etc is indicative of this.
“If/then” (Nice try).
Old 10 hours ago
  #63
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Earcatcher's Avatar
I listened attentively to those recordings from the link as I am very interested in the AD8+. But what I noticed is something that sounds to me like a bit of an EQ smiley curve: big and swimmy lows and somewhat papery restless highs, diminished mid detail. Is this what people call "transparent"? I find it so tonally poor, lacking harmonic fullness. In order to explain what I mean I attach a sample below, showing how I think an orchestra should sound in the aspects just mentioned. It is recorded in a reverberant church, but still there is detail and plasticity without pushed highs, I think. Listen to the typical buzzing of gut strings. And this is a student's orchestra... No spots, just a main array. I would like to hear some reflection on my observations from you guys who use the AD8+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton View Post
Anyways to close out my involvement because I was part of this thread ; to clarify in case, in the future some one wants to know if they can hear a Sonosax recording.

The link referenced in that Decca Thread

is a Sonosax AD8+ 7 channel plus 2 direct total 9 track recording

Vienna Home by PlantLady Rec Services | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Attached Files

Beethoven_no._3, 2nd_mvmnt_ECA.mp3 (8.88 MB, 231 views)

Old 10 hours ago
  #64
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I listened attentively to those recordings from the link as I am very interested in the AD8+. But what I noticed is something that sounds to me like a bit of an EQ smiley curve: big and swimmy lows and somewhat papery restless highs, diminished mid detail. Is this what people call "transparent"? I find it so tonally poor, lacking harmonic fullness. In order to explain what I mean I attach a sample below, showing how I think an orchestra should sound in the aspects just mentioned. It is recorded in a reverberant church, but still there is detail and plasticity without pushed highs, I think. Listen to the typical buzzing of gut strings. And this is a student's orchestra... No spots, just a main array. I would like to hear some reflection on my observations from you guys who use the AD8+.
I understand what you are saying . I’ve been wrestling for quite a bit now with this mix. I do think however that the resolving of the various instrumental lines in my mix is superior. Thanks for sharing your clips.

Last edited by emenelton; 9 hours ago at 04:57 AM..
Old 8 hours ago
  #65
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton View Post
I do think however that the resolving of the various instrumental lines in my mix is superior.
Maybe from a deterministic point of view, but where is the musical coherence? When I go to a concert I never hear those sandpaper-like highs in strings that I hear in your recording. I do hear it often in recordings though, so your aesthetic is definitely not unusual, but why is this deemed a virtue when preamps emphasize this aspect and (to my ears) create a false impression of transparency or even "translucency"? I feel that the double/triple timed high pitched transients make the sound restless and take away from the joy of listening to the melodies. (Of course since my recording has more reverb filling up the instrument lines it has a different tonal character by nature, but I think that even within this fuller tonality there is actually more relaxed but very high definition. I can hear every single musician in the total image without the need of scratchy highs to know what they are doing.)
Old 8 hours ago
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaBzg View Post
Actually it does. Sorry you are angry, bitter, jealous and resentful. That statement you exude with such dismissive act of in the know illustrates perfectly how little you know that you cannot figure it out.
I have a degree in music as well and I certainly can confirm that musicians and engineers listen to music, and hear sound in general, with a completely different mindset. It is more likely you are attributing fault in performance or musicianship to a fault in the equipment. If the source is poor, then there is no preamp or recording device that will make it better.
Old 3 hours ago
  #67
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
I have a degree in music as well and I certainly can confirm that musicians and engineers listen to music, and hear sound in general, with a completely different mindset. It is more likely you are attributing fault in performance or musicianship to a fault in the equipment. If the source is poor, then there is no preamp or recording device that will make it better.
I have three categories of musicians:

1. those who know how to listen to a recording, and who are (unfortunately) amazed that a recording can sound similar to how they actually sound.
2. those who do not care and are just happy to be recorded (which includes some big names)
3. those who do not know how to listen to a recording. This happens very rarely, and would imply there is some truth to HelenaBzg's provocative statement.

Actually there is a 4th: some musicians (sometimes brilliant) want their recorded sound completely different & artificial, as if they embrace the fact that recording is another medium. Probably the most difficult to record.

As for the SX-R4+ samples, they would not make me choose it over my F8 just yet. I concur with Earcatcher. I cannot listen more than a couple of seconds to them, maybe its just soundcloud doing funny stuff, I do not know. Seems something got boosted way too much way up high.
Old 2 hours ago
  #68
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
I don't own a Sonosax recorder, so this is a bit OT, but listening to both emenelton's and earcatcher's samples is an interesting exercise. For me, it points to different aesthetic and technical choices. The Schubert is rollicking and exciting and the technical production is too - a Decca tree, spaced pairs as flankers, a ribbon on the tympani, some 4-point edits, and probably some EQ, time/phase adjustment...a BIG recording in all senses. Well done. But I do hear some problems on the high strings, and the piccolo, very obviously. The Beethoven is typically dark (well, to my taste anyway) but the different parts are alive and well defined in earcatcher's recording, even with the pleasantly reverberant acoustic; everything is there in the soup without too much salt or pepper and I can taste the different vegetables. This is a very 'pure' recording, both tonally and with regard to the foibles of gut strings and a student orchestra. Thank you to both of the "E's" for posting these samples.

Full disclosure: I almost always prefer coincident and near-coincident recordings to those using spaced omnis...the endless debate continues.
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