Dante - enabled remote preamps? - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community
Dante - enabled remote preamps?
Old 5th February 2013
  #1
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Dante - enabled remote preamps?

Hi,
I'm in the process of planning a audio studio complex which is a part of a major overhaul of all technical aspects of a building for a university.

Part of this is to have the possibility of recording events in several rooms in the ground floor. The studio is located on the 3rd floor.

Because of several reasons those remote connections will be done with DANTE-enabled equipment.

Now my question: What is currently out there on the market regarding preamps that can be remotely controlled via DANTE and incorporated hassle-free into a protools environment?

I know of the DAD stuff, and the Focusrite REDNET series seems like an option.
Any experiences with those?
Also, I don't know if the Yamaha RIO stage boxes can already be controlled via DANTE without a yamaha desk.
Anyone got infos on that?

Thank you in advance!
Old 6th February 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 

An iLive (Allen & Heath ) fixed-series MixRack equipped with a Dante card in Slot B would give you 16, 32, or 48 channels of 24 bit 48k mic' pres. You can control each pre via the free iLive editor (preferably running on its own PC unless used only for set-up). That includes controlling phantom power.

best,

john
Old 6th February 2013
  #3
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Nice, thanks John.

Anything else?
Old 7th February 2013
  #4
Gear nut
 
jmcarlock's Avatar
 

I am using Focusrite Rednet 4. The overall design of Rednet is excellent, the boxes are built to be very solid but are not actually very heavy in weight. The sound of Rednet 4 is at the high end, it is neutral, quiet, and fast. All of the associated software works well enough and at higher latencies it seems to be stable with Dante Virtual Soundcard.

Rednet 5 should work well with Protools.

I am really impressed with how Dante works so seamlessly on a network. One thing to note is that Dante is particular to which network switches are used and how they are configured, as clocking must be given priority.
Old 8th February 2013
  #5
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Plush's Avatar
Cool stuff, Jason

Do you then use a laptop or other computer to do your recording? Do you plug the ethernet cable right in to the computer?

I ask because I am ignorant in this area of specialty.
Old 8th February 2013
  #6
Gear nut
 
jmcarlock's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Cool stuff, Jason

Do you then use a laptop or other computer to do your recording? Do you plug the ethernet cable right in to the computer?
Hello Plush,

Yes, mainly I am just testing out one Rednet 4 8 channel preamp and plugging it right into a laptop to do a backup recording. Dante Virtual Soundcard (DVS), which is included as a free download with the box, sets up a 32x32 interface at 96k (or a 64x64 interface at 48k). All devices/boxes in a Dante setup are connected using a simple network switch and create a standard computer network automatically. Routing is done for Dante within the Dante Controller software, or with Rednet through Rednet Control where preamp levels can be controlled remotely.

I monitor through my computer's built in output or my Mytek w/Firewire by using an audio monitoring application called AudioMonitor.

The connection is really fast. Plug in the inputs, plug in the preamp, connect it to my computer, start DVS, route the inputs and outputs, and record. On a Mac it is all very stable live recording with Boom Recorder and should be fine in recording sessions with Reaper.

A JoeCo Blackbox with Dante, Rednet PCI-e, or output from another Dante box/mixer can be used to record in lieu of a computer. Also, multiple computers can be routed the same channels simultaneously allowing for a stable backup recording.

Cable run can be up to 100m on solid CAT5e/CAT6. Or connect an inexpensive optical to ethernet converter to run fiber over longer distances. The only key restriction is that audio will not run over Wifi. But I am sure that many venues already have ethernet wired from the stage to the control room. Rednet 6 will be able to connect MADI equipment for ethernet cable runs and connection to DVS.

It is a super cool setup!

All the best,
Jason
Old 22nd February 2013
  #7
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Just wanted to share what I went with in this scenario.

We planned the whole facility, the post production studio will access the DANTE-enabled remote inhouse- locations with - depending on budget - either the NTP Penta 721 router or the DAD AX32.

Thanks again for the suggestions. The Allen&Heath was a no-go since you cannot control the preamps via DANTE.
Old 22nd February 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
...
Thanks again for the suggestions. The Allen&Heath was a no-go since you cannot control the preamps via DANTE.
Alhough the same computer hosting the Dante Virtual Soundcard would also be able to host the free iLive editor which does let you control the preamps.

best,

john
Old 23rd February 2013
  #9
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabney View Post
Alhough the same computer hosting the Dante Virtual Soundcard would also be able to host the free iLive editor which does let you control the preamps.

best,

john
There would be no Dante Virtual Soundcard-host in this environment (Protools HDX based).
The Allen&Heath doesn't emulate the Avid PRE protocol so couldn't be integrated nicely with the ICON controllers.

Also, you would need two ethernet connections.

All in all, not an elegant solution in this case.
Old 15th June 2016
  #10
Hi: even they are not DANTE enabled, Mergin's HAPI and HORUS are a nice option, they use Ravenna as the AoIP protocol and the also have an HDX card + they use the PRE protocol.

Regards.
Old 15th June 2016
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felipousis View Post
even they are not DANTE enabled, Mergin's HAPI and HORUS are a nice option, they use Ravenna as the AoIP protocol and the also have an HDX card + they use the PRE protocol.
Dante has added AES67 support, allowing compatibility with Ravenna.
Old 15th June 2016
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynaud View Post
Dante has added AES67 support, allowing compatibility with Ravenna.
Yes but they still can't "talk" too easy or freely, so let's hope AES 67 will solve this issues.
Old 15th June 2016
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felipousis View Post
Yes but they still can't "talk" too easy or freely, so let's hope AES 67 will solve this issues.
AES67 only sets a minimum standard for communication based off the a subset of the structure the Ravenna "consortium" had agreed upon. Since Ravenna's scope is in practice more extensive than AES67, Dante won't ever likely be fully interoperable with Ravenna.

AES67 also involves Audinate patents:
"The Audio Engineering Society draws attention to the fact that it is claimed that compliance with this AES standard or information document may involve the use of a patent. The holder of this patent right has assured the AES that it is willing to negotiate licenses under reasonable and non-discriminatory terms and conditions with applicants throughout the world. In this respect, the statement of the holder of this patent right is archived with the AES and listed on the public AES web site."
Old 16th June 2016
  #14
Focusrite is the current "leader" in modular Dante products, I think, with their Rednet line. What's nice is that you can get units with preamps, or, if you wish you can get line level AD/DA as well, which is handy if you'd rather have specific 500-series preamps in a lunch box.

Yamaha also has some DANTE stage boxes that let you remotely control the preamps, using PC software (dunno about Apple).
Old 16th June 2016
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Grace Design m108.
Old 17th June 2016
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

all the Yamaha Dante "stage boxes" work well in this regard. Both the Rio series and the newer, cheaper, Tio1608 can be controlled by the R-Remote software which is available for both Mac and Win. It runs happily on the laptop running the DAW, but I often run it on a cheap little netbook plugged into a network switch with the other devices so I don't have to close my DAW window to adjust head amp gains. They all take Line and Mic level.
Old 17th June 2016
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Old 19th July 2016
  #19
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by njrsound View Post
all the Yamaha Dante "stage boxes" work well in this regard. Both the Rio series and the newer, cheaper, Tio1608 can be controlled by the R-Remote software which is available for both Mac and Win. It runs happily on the laptop running the DAW, but I often run it on a cheap little netbook plugged into a network switch with the other devices so I don't have to close my DAW window to adjust head amp gains. They all take Line and Mic level.
Hi njrsound,

With the Yamaha Rio or even Tio stage boxes, can I use a physical fader to control the pre-amp gain? There is a video on how to achieve this with the Rednet on the Focusrite YT page, but the information regarding what seems to be the Yamaha equivalent is very vague and not very informative. Could you shed some light on this?

Much appreciated.

Max
Old 20th July 2016
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Max,
Any Yamaha Console from the m7cl / LS9 era or newer can control these Rio and Tio 'stage boxes' from their own gain knobs. Older Yamaha consoles like 01v96 can't - and obviously neither can third party hardware. They are a yamaha accessory product made for their current range of consoles rather than a stand-alone product line. They have however made the R-Remote software I described, which I run on a little netbook bought cheap second hand for the purpose. It's quite possible that someone skilled at reverse-engineering communications protocols could make an Arduino based hardware remote, but there's no of-the-shelf solution.
Old 21st July 2016
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
Focusrite is the current "leader" in modular Dante products, I think, with their Rednet line. .
If you look at the long history Yamaha had with Dante and the amount of Dante enabled devices they have in their product line I don't think it's fair to say FR is the current Dante leader.
Check out the database on the audinate page. Most people are surprised how many dante-gear there is already.

With Yamaha as their main backer I don't think Dante will die a sudden death because of the new AES standards.
Old 21st July 2016
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
If you look at the long history Yamaha had with Dante and the amount of Dante enabled devices they have in their product line I don't think it's fair to say FR is the current Dante leader.
Check out the database on the audinate page. Most people are surprised how many dante-gear there is already.

With Yamaha as their main backer I don't think Dante will die a sudden death because of the new AES standards.
In the live sound market I agree. For someone looking for remote preamp for location recording, I still think focusrite is leading.

I fully agree that AES67 isn't a replacement. Of anything DANTE seems to be growing. I'm waiting on the amphe-dante devices due out on August. They'll let me use dante for my existing analog amps and monitor controller.
Old 22nd July 2016
  #23
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tourtelot's Avatar
I am looking for Lynx to get on board so that I can use my analog preamps (Millennia and TruePs) via Dante. I still need to run copper to the control-room at this point and I'd be happy if I could leave my pres and converters on the recording stage. If (when) I can do that, I will probably go for the JoeCo BBR Dante as well. Then I can use the Dante network to send the multis to the control room for monitoring and a scratch 2-track mix back down the line to the JoeCo on stage. Needless to say, latency is not an issue with a recording, but we are talking about a spec of .25-.50ms even with three switches in the network. I normally use two.

Lynx seems really disinterested in Dante at this point, sad to say, so my next move may be to buy the rather expensive Dante enabled Focusrite A16R A to D converters and sell the Auroras, even though I love the sound of the Lynx units. Too bad, but Lynx's lack of Dante interest has me looking at other avenues.

Love to hear from them but I just get a form-letter when I enquire.

D.
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