The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Multimiking A Classical Orchestra Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Lives for gear
 
wildplum's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Multimiking A Classical Orchestra

On the DPA web site page, under "Multimiking A Classical Orchestra", in discussing time alignment of the spot mics, there is this statement:

"Time alignment is very much dependent on the room or concert hall in which the recording is taking place. If each microphone blindly is delayed according to the distance and the speed of sound, there will be severe phasing problems if the musicians move while playing. To overcome the phasing problems while still preserving the timbre of the individual instrument the time delay has to be approximately 25% longer than the first coming sound (at the main stereo pair), calculated relatively to the first reflection (often the floor reflection)."
(Multimiking a classical orchestra)

The phrase "calculated relatively to the first reflection" through me. would someone please explain what DPA is getting at here? Thank you.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
Just a guess, but I think dpa are saying that the arrival time of the sound from the instrument which is spotted also has to take into account the floor bounce arrival to the main pair, rather than the simple direct path 'through the air' from that instrument to main pair.

I doubt this reasoning...if I'm spot miking woodwinds or tympani or percussion, there is generally a wall/forest of bodies, chairs, music stands between those instruments and the floor, leading right up to the front of the stage.

So to my thinking, those same 'obstacles' would be the perfect absorbers/traps for any floor bounce of the spotted instruments...and hence you could safely discard that factor which dpa are asking you to consider ?

By all means delay your spots, and perhaps by more than straight 'air travel' calculation would indicate, so that the spot mic(s) arrival sinks into the fabric of the main pair pickup...but the floor bounce stuff is just adding extra complication for no net gain.....and some would say that applies to the whole concept of spot delays in general !
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Quote:
but I think dpa are saying that the arrival time of the sound from the instrument which is spotted also has to take into account the floor bounce arrival to the main pair,
That is right. Delay times are "usually," or "suggestively?", measured from the floor. I don't delay my spot mics unless there is an absolute need when it is too close to the main pair. Turning them down usually does the trick.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
In addition, a lot of instruments that you might consider for spot-miking don't actually have significant downward (floor-facing) propagation patterns eg violins, woodwinds...at least not in the HF area, the loss of which it's hoped will be countered by the use of a spot.

Thus, either the ceiling or the side walls are likely to figure more prominently as the planes of 1st reflection....and if the main pair is inside the distance to either then it's not going to figure very much in the overall scheme of things ?
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
FWIW, the only time I have ever delayed spot mics (and I don't do very much multi-mic work, it's true) was in a session when a solo quartet was singing from the other end of the church from where the main pair (and the main choir) was set up. In other words, there were, sorta, two main pair. I used a movie "clap stix" at the head of Take 1 and the two pair were super easy to sync up.

D.

Last edited by tourtelot; 1 week ago at 05:24 PM.. Reason: Spelling, what else?
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Here for the gear
Interested in critique of my thought process as I pull up an otherwise unused spot in a mix:
1. The (cello) doesn't have sufficient presence
2. Bring up the spot too far, then subtractive EQ it to highlight the missing wood or bow timbre
3. Drop the level back down to where the presence is barely adequate for the cello to join the party
4. Nod appreciatively to Mr. Haas that the spot level is at a minimum thanks to the "early" signal... And that in a general/average sense, to the degree they are even audible, the reflections present in the spot will in accord with those of the mains.

Am I nuts?
Old 6 days ago
  #7
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
FWIW, the only time I have ever delayed spot mics (and I don't do very much multi-mic work, it's true) was in a session when a solo quartet was singing from the other end of the church from where the main pair (and the main choir) was set up. In other words, there were, sorta, two main pair. I used a movie "clap stix" at the head of Take 1 and the two pair were super easy to sync up.D.
Really I don't know how you can delay two main pairs ???
We delay spots in reference to one main pair.
Where was your "clap stix" ?
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathieujm View Post
Really I don't know how you can delay two main pairs ???
We delay spots in reference to one main pair.
Where was your "clap stix" ?
Worked fine. "clap stix" are the top part of slates used in the movie business (well, before time code anyway) to sync sound and picture. "Roll camera, roll sound, mark it. Smack!"

I just use the top part separated from the board. The two pair were 100' apart in this particular instance.

D.
Attached Thumbnails
Multimiking A Classical Orchestra-clapper.jpg  
Old 5 days ago
  #9
Lives for gear
Yes, I know the clap stix

Which pair did you delay ? The choir ? 100ms (30m) ?
Or the quatuor pair ? 100ms ?

In all cases the quatuor pair captures only the diffuse sound of the choir and the choir pair only the diffuse sound of the quatuor. What can do delays with diffuse sound ?
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Sorry. I misread "where" as "what."

Stix were at the choir end. Quartet was pretty close mic'd and heard very little of the main choir in this case. It worked, so I guess it was okay.

D.
Mentioned Products
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump