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Schoeps CCM5 and CCM8
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Schoeps CCM5 and CCM8

This may be an odd method for arriving at this idea--and I've not seen much mention of this combination--but consider the following please:

I'm interested in a single stereo mic pair that will be a kind of do it all pair. From poor-ish small rooms, to churches of unknown acoustic provenance, to completely open air natural spaces, and potentially anything in-between, recording small mostly acoustic ensembles, vocal groups, singer-songwriters, soloists, SFX, ambiance, and environmental sounds. It doesn't have to be the best anywhere (indeed I don't expect it to be), but it must be good everywhere.

I'd also want this to be the smallest, lightest, most compact system possible.

I worked backwards starting with the smallest windshield system Rycote makes: the WS 9 MS Windshield kit. It is their smallest, and lightest offering, by a significant margin (windshield diameter is the only one that is 100mm, and length is 210mm; every other one has a diameter of 140mm, and longer lengths).

The catch (and it's not exactly a bad catch): it only accommodates Schoeps CCM mics.

Which suggests a CCM5 and a CCM8 for MS.

Return to original criteria for mic pair.

Thoughts on such a pair?

I'd have flexibility to switch between omni and cardioid for the mid mic, and have superb MS capability.

Buy a second CCM5 and I have even more options if I don't want to use that particular Rycote.

I'm nervous about investing in the CCM series. You are obviously locked in to the capsule; it's not the colette system.

Bad idea?

Great idea?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Based on your premise: best idea.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
whippoorwill's Avatar
one possible change, you could get one ccm8 and a cmc6/5 with the schoeps KC collete system.
41/2/21 are my three favourite capsules these days in terms of versatility.
5 is a lil sharp.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
one possible change, you could get one ccm8 and a cmc6/5 with the schoeps KC collete system.
I like your thinking!

But where would I put the CMC relative to the windshield? It would require a cumbersome attachment somewhere outside, unless I misunderstand how the system works.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter k View Post
This may be an odd method for arriving at this idea--and I've not seen much mention of this combination--but consider the following please:

I'm interested in a single stereo mic pair that will be a kind of do it all pair. From poor-ish small rooms, to churches of unknown acoustic provenance, to completely open air natural spaces, and potentially anything in-between, recording small mostly acoustic ensembles, vocal groups, singer-songwriters, soloists, SFX, ambiance, and environmental sounds. It doesn't have to be the best anywhere (indeed I don't expect it to be), but it must be good everywhere.

I'd also want this to be the smallest, lightest, most compact system possible.

I worked backwards starting with the smallest windshield system Rycote makes: the WS 9 MS Windshield kit. It is their smallest, and lightest offering, by a significant margin (windshield diameter is the only one that is 100mm, and length is 210mm; every other one has a diameter of 140mm, and longer lengths).

The catch (and it's not exactly a bad catch): it only accommodates Schoeps CCM mics.

Which suggests a CCM5 and a CCM8 for MS.

Return to original criteria for mic pair.

Thoughts on such a pair?

I'd have flexibility to switch between omni and cardioid for the mid mic, and have superb MS capability.

Buy a second CCM5 and I have even more options if I don't want to use that particular Rycote.

I'm nervous about investing in the CCM series. You are obviously locked in to the capsule; it's not the colette system.

Bad idea?

Great idea?
It's not a bad plan, but if you put together two CCM8 + one CCM omni (native b format array)
you will have more flexibility in the mid polar pattern, and not miss out on being able
to have a fig 8 mid.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Yes, CCMs are more expensive and less versatile than a CMC6 + MK* combo. But once you add a Colette cable the price difference isn't that big anymore, and it's more clumsy and prone to faulty connections.

I'd probably go with the CCM plan as originally intended. Indeed it's quite well-suited for all kinds of recording. Do get the Lemo version, not the fixed cable version.

However, do expect to add a CCM 41 soon if you want clean, in-your-face SFX. And do expect to get a CCM 21 for a certain, quite common type of room. Then, expect to buy a second CCM8 to do Blumlein for small acoustic groups.
After that, you'll want a pair of each.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I like the CCM 41 very much indeed
Excellent with the CCM 8
Dont buy the small ball Rycote ,even with a jammer it can blast the 8 in adverse conditions
Wait for the new stereo Rycotes Cyclones, but you will still need a jammer for extremes
Always go for the Lemo versions and definitely get a pair of CCM 8 (eventually)
Roger
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Wait for the new stereo Rycotes Cyclones, but you will still need a jammer for extremes
Hi,

can you elaborate about the stereo Cyclones? Is that something to come soon? Will these be for the CMCs or also CCM MS setups or both?

Couldn't find any info online

Cheers!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Coming soon Mr Q
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Old 1 week ago
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Thanks everyone so far. Great augmentations of the original idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
I like the CCM 41 very much indeed
Excellent with the CCM 8
Dont buy the small ball Rycote ,even with a jammer it can blast the 8 in adverse conditions
Wait for the new stereo Rycotes Cyclones, but you will still need a jammer for extremes
Interesting. The smallest current Cyclone is larger than I'd want to use, so I will wait to see what these are about. Thanks for the warning about the smallest Windshield relative to the CCM 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
...definitely get a pair of CCM 8 (eventually)
Roger
Thanks for that too.

I admire your results with the MKH 30s in MS, so this is a good endorsement. I'd otherwise be quite happy to use MKHs, but concluded that for my purposes, the mics and attendant mounts/windhshields are too large and heavy.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 

You cant beat the laws of physics in the cruel world of field recording
To defeat wind blast, larger size is essential
The fig 8 is prone to side blast so a jammer is necessary, so is a rumble free suspension and cables with good compliance
Latest Schoeps have a heater (?) to defeat moisture
MKH RF does not need this
Schoeps excellent for detail
MKH has more weight and scale imho
Roger
Old 6 days ago
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
You cant beat the laws of physics in the cruel world of field recording
To defeat wind blast, larger size is essential...
And look! As if nearly by magic, as you said, Rycote Stereo Cyclones are announced:

Stereo Cyclone | Rycote

They don't seem to have all the kit configurations spec'd, but this is looking good.

Depending on final size of the Cyclones--if I go this route--I could see the possibility of going with the Sennheiser MS route, even if the mics are larger and heavier.

What would you say to that? An MKH 30 and MKH 20/30/40 as a single pair of 'go everywhere/record everywhere' (indoor, outdoor, good rooms, bad rooms, etc.) mics?
Old 6 days ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

I would agree to that and also add a MKH 80
Roger
I saw these rigs last week and they look very comprehensive
Old 6 days ago
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
I would agree to that and also add a MKH 80
Roger
I saw these rigs last week and they look very comprehensive
I wonder when my local dealer will get these in stock.
Old 6 days ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
I would agree to that and also add a MKH 80
Roger
I saw these rigs last week and they look very comprehensive
Yes, only downside is they are significantly heavier than the "regular" shields from Rycote.

The empty MS one is around 700g which is pretty heavy for something that might end up at the end of a boom.
Old 6 days ago
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Nothing compared to a MKH 816 and jammer on a 20' pole which I used to waggle Mr Q!
Old 6 days ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Nothing compared to a MKH 816 and jammer on a 20' pole which I used to waggle Mr Q!
Well if you compare it to a common setup from the 80ies with an aluminum pole anything will seem light.

I meant more in the context of current modern mics & wind protection systems the Cyclones are definitely heavyweights.

Try one. You'd be surprised how much lighter the "regular" Rycotes are even with the connbox etc. etc.
Old 6 days ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 

They are now heavily engineered
Chris Wolf who designed the original Cyclone has retired and his place has been taken by by an engineer from Ambient
The original baskets and suspension were a bit agricultural and thus lighter, thats why I suggested looking on EBay for the early 6", but I think the stereo Cyclones offer hi tech visions for the future, in this ever increasingly noisy world, we need all the help we can get
Roger
Old 5 days ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
They are now heavily engineered
Chris Wolf who designed the original Cyclone has retired and his place has been taken by by an engineer from Ambient
The original baskets and suspension were a bit agricultural and thus lighter, thats why I suggested looking on EBay for the early 6", but I think the stereo Cyclones offer hi tech visions for the future, in this ever increasingly noisy world, we need all the help we can get
Roger
Given the video I posted above I think they might have to do some more engineering but we'll see when they are available. I also read that the Cyclone is sold without the fur so it's actually not even really cheaper than the Cinela but maybe it's different for the stereo ones.
Old 4 days ago
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

If you're basing your decision-making on some abstract reticence towards the CCM mics, I'm surprised . . . personally I think the main allure of the Colette series is the legacy of compatibility between all sorts of existing capsules and preamps, if you happen to have them and/or are buying/selling on the used market. If you don't, then the economic advantages of swappable capsules are negligible for most situations, and usually completely offset by the cost of active cables if a compact profile is required.

I feel that the CCM mics are like having all the benefits of the MK capsules, without needing to deal with swapping preamps and active cables. When you invest in a given capsule . . . you ALWAYS have it available for use, no matter the extent of your deployment of other capsules . . . that is, you never have to worry about "if I had another preamp I could . . . " etc. etc. Yes, they're tiny . . . and I've had musicians unfamiliar with them raise an eyebrow because of this . . . but they are truly world-class products, and my guess is that once they're in your arsenal . . . you won't look back.
Old 1 day ago
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkus View Post
If you're basing your decision-making on some abstract reticence towards the CCM mics, I'm surprised . . . personally I think the main allure of the Colette series is the legacy of compatibility between all sorts of existing capsules and preamps, if you happen to have them and/or are buying/selling on the used market. If you don't, then the economic advantages of swappable capsules are negligible for most situations, and usually completely offset by the cost of active cables if a compact profile is required.

I feel that the CCM mics are like having all the benefits of the MK capsules, without needing to deal with swapping preamps and active cables. When you invest in a given capsule . . . you ALWAYS have it available for use, no matter the extent of your deployment of other capsules . . . that is, you never have to worry about "if I had another preamp I could . . . " etc. etc. Yes, they're tiny . . . and I've had musicians unfamiliar with them raise an eyebrow because of this . . . but they are truly world-class products, and my guess is that once they're in your arsenal . . . you won't look back.
kirkus, thank you. This is an outstanding line of thinking, and the best articulation I've seen thus far for the CCM series over the CMC/MK series, IF one is not already invested in CMC/MKs...which I am not.

This goes a long way to allaying whatever concerns I might have had about investing in CCMs.
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