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Another new SD Recorder - 10T
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Another new SD Recorder - 10T

Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy View Post
It's out! Looks like a nice recorder. Will this be the end of the 788T? Glad they added a hirose plug. I can see people wanting to use NP batteries with this one.

https://www.sounddevices.com/product...ers/mixpre-10t

-Tom
It looks terrific BUT no AES in/out.
With my Soundfield DSF-1 I have to
have AES only so have to stick with
my 788's.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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hughesmr's Avatar
On-board backup. Thank you!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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jwh1192's Avatar
looks like price is around 1799.00 US funds .. the Power Connector (Hirose) n the back .. looks like it is sticking out from beyond the bottom of the unit .. or is it just the pictures that make it seem like that ??
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
On-board backup. Thank you!
Yeah, that's a very cool feature. Looks like you can also capture a stream to a computer via USB.

I'd be interested in the collective wisdom of longtime Sound Devices recorder owners, and what their perspective is on backups and redundancy. Obviously the onboard or USB backup wouldn't work if the whole recorder went down.

The arrival of the MixPre series has gotten me thinking about a setup with two independent recorders and a passive mic splitter to send the incoming signals to each one. But the recorder supplying phantom power would still represent a single point of failure. Maybe set up the splitter such that half the inputs were powered from one recorder and half from another?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCtoDaylight View Post
I'd be interested in the collective wisdom of longtime Sound Devices recorder owners, and what their perspective is on backups and redundancy. Obviously the onboard or USB backup wouldn't work if the whole recorder went down.

The arrival of the MixPre series has gotten me thinking about a setup with two independent recorders and a passive mic splitter to send the incoming signals to each one. But the recorder supplying phantom power would still represent a single point of failure. Maybe set up the splitter such that half the inputs were powered from one recorder and half from another?
I have a 788T. It is a reliable machine, but I still always have backup plans. I typically record simultaneously to the HD and CF card in the 788T. I also use a passive splitter and have another recording going. And I generally split phantom btw recorders (often have a second main pair drawing phantom from the other recorder).

If you're recording a live performance, I think redundancy is a must; no matter how good the gear is.

Tom
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Addict
I too have 788's (2) and always record
to SSD + CF. I have had on approximately 3 occasions a problem where I couldn't transfer one particular file ( all the other files were ok) into my PC and had to rely on the other copy.
Also if you are C-linking 2 machines and
there is a loss of clock signal to the slave
(due to bad C-Link cable) you can have channels on the slave machine suddenly overload with very loud broadband noise. The backup/prevention is to use a Word clock cable in addition to the C-link cable so you can't lose Word Clock sync. Also I now store my C-Link cables in a short piece of PVC electrical conduit with foam plugs in the ends. No way they can accidently get crimped when you close a case.
I don't generally use backup on another
device except when I record with my
Soundfields when I record B-format on
one machine and a stereo decode from the pre-amp/processor(all Soundfield mics except the SPS200 come with a dedicated preamp/processor with this capability) on the other 788 machine.
I also carry a spare power supply ( had one go bad on me) and spare TA3 cables.
Love my 788's
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Plush's Avatar
I wonder why their advertising materials mention that the unit has "32 bit converters?"

Of course there is no such thing.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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I have the same question as Tommy-boy. Is this the end of the 788T?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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tourtelot's Avatar
The Sound Devices 788T just happened to be a great one piece box for recording minimal-mic classical music in addition to it's originally intended use as a small (fairly) high track count recorder for the film and video world.

Sound Devices continues to make recorders and mixers for their main clientele, soundmen for the film and video world. They don't particularly care if any of us music recordists ever buy a Sound Devices device.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't part with my 788T, ever. It does it's job in the most sublime fashion of any of my gear, along with a few favorite mic pairs.

But SD isn't going to ever again make a product like the 788T that works so well for us. But the film and video soundmen will be standing in line to buy this unit. Big enough channel count in the bag for the biggest reality job and big enough with an additional fader pack (assuming that is in the works) for the most sophisticated Hollywood feature mixer. Well done. But not for us.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
RPC
Gear Maniac
 

Okay, I'm curious: what are the three little holes next to the channel 8 knob? Slate mike?

(I've got to admit I like the buttons on the smaller Mixpres better than the wobble knob on the 10T, but I understand that there's no place to put them!)

Rudy Chalupa
Pleiades Audio + Electronics
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
The Sound Devices 788T just happened to be a great one piece box for recording minimal-mic classical music in addition to it's originally intended use as a small (fairly) high track count recorder for the film and video world.

But SD isn't going to ever again make a product like the 788T that works so well for us. But the film and video soundmen will be standing in line to buy this unit. Big enough channel count in the bag for the biggest reality job and big enough with an additional fader pack (assuming that is in the works) for the most sophisticated Hollywood feature mixer. Well done. But not for us.

D.
I'm genuinely curious: what is it about the 788t that makes it great for music that the -10T doesn't do?

They both have 8 mic preamps; I haven't done a comparison between the sound of the preamps but I've seen that Sound Devices claims that these preamps are better than the ones in the 788t.

I know the 788t can record to more media simultaneously, but I think the USB interface capabilities of the MP10T slightly make up for that.

I've done music recording with both the 788t and the MixPre-6, and for me I don't think I'm missing anything with the MP6, but I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

-Mike
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticrogues View Post
I'm genuinely curious: what is it about the 788t that makes it great for music that the -10T doesn't do?
The scalability of the 788T is its forte: you can use it as a standalone recorder, but also with separate preamps and external converters, or digital microphones, and you can make live mixes with its mixing surface CL-9. You can also use them stacked, locked to the internal or an external clock. For me the 788T is the flexible heart of any recording setup that I use. It can be highly customized with complex internal routing. As attractive as the MixPre-10T is, it would never be possible to use it in the multifold of situations that I use my 788T recorders in.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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tourtelot's Avatar
And also, I have been using the 788T for, probably, 15 years and I know it inside and out. There are no more "traps" in the 788T for me and I can get it to do exactly what I want it to, when I want it to. That's a big reason for not needing to change recorders for me.

I can't speak about the preamps in the new machine but I know the preamps in the 788T are good enough that I have no second thoughts about using them to record music that will be listened to critically at a later date. That's gold for me.

Great preamps, great convertors, great storage media, and rock-solid performance. Why would I want something else? More tracks? Grace preamps and JoeCo on Dante.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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tourtelot's Avatar
Plush-

Just curious about you comment on 32-bit A to D convertors. A quick search shows many chip manufacturers at least claiming that their convertors are 32-bit. Here is but one example.

D.
Attached Thumbnails
Another new SD Recorder - 10T-screen-shot-2017-10-04-8.49.28-pm.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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@Earcatcher you're right, I didn't think of that. The 788t is definitely better suited to be the center of a scalable and flexible rig.

And @tourtelot that makes total sense. I don't see any reason to replace a 788t with a MP10T either, but for someone who doesn't already have a 788t, it might be a good option.

-Mike
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I wonder why their advertising materials mention that the unit has "32 bit converters?"

Of course there is no such thing.
dos > win > win32 > win64 > win128 next ))
many chip manufacturers at least claiming that their convertors are 32-bit. (c) tourtelot
Do not make a 24-bit proprietary chip.
Today most programs are made from ready modules, like lego.
Do not write programs from zero, do not need low-level programming, do not need a long test, revision, test again ...
Technology and economics only.
I think so
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
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The advantage of the MP10T is it is much more affordable than a 788T. If it allows timecode sync of audio and video with start/stop control over HDMI to a GH5, then the combination of a MP10T with a GH5 or other timecode capable DSLR looks appealing. And at a combined cost less than buying one 788T.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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Thread Starter
I wonder if they will provide linking functionality so that two 10Ts could be linked for 16 channels, the way 788Ts can.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
MP10T is an affordable way to add more tracks to my redundant system on 16 channel (+) sessions. The ability to have high-quality, battery-powered redundancy all the way back to the phantom power via a transformer split is nice piece of mind. What seems to be missing from this new device vs. the 7 series is the ganged transport controls that the C-link provided.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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Plush's Avatar
The 32 bit chip language is advertising language.

Today's digital recording performance rarely reaches 21 bits.
Most are below 20 bit recordings.

This 32 bit language is language from the IT world. (of course so much of recording too is allied with the IT world!)

I am surprised that the Wisconsin company stoops so low as to trick the reader.

Currently the recordable bit limit is defined by the inherent noise in analog circuitry (even the most quiet).
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
The advantage of the MP10T is it is much more affordable than a 788T. If it allows timecode sync of audio and video with start/stop control over HDMI to a GH5, then the combination of a MP10T with a GH5 or other timecode capable DSLR looks appealing. And at a combined cost less than buying one 788T.
All true but none of those things apply to the location music recordist.

Well, cost perhaps but cost is a factor in all our purchases and sometimes we pay more for gear that specifically address our needs.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

I am surprised that the Wisconsin company stoops so low as to trick the reader.
Surprised at your vehemence, Plush. Sound Devices is only stating a fact, it seems. Likely that they do indeed use a 32-bit A to D in their machine. That's all they say.

No more fooling the user than any other honest spec that any company might put in their brochure. I guess it is up to us as informed consumers to understand what those specs mean. You seem to understand those specs. Good on you. You won't be fooled by "false advertising."

Oh and yes. I count myself among Sound Devices fan-boys. I use one of their products and between the product and the company, have never been let down in any fashion.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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tourtelot's Avatar
Oh and one more thing ("Shut up Doug"). The new Sound Devices machines are having the effect of a lot of 788T recorders showing up on the used market. I just saw one on GS Classifieds (no personal involvement with the seller) for $2050.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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The spec features indicate the MP10T will record simultaneously to an internal card and stream via USB to a computer. there's also an auto copy feature to backup to a USB stick also though I'm not sure if you can record to all three of the internal card, computer and USB stick at once? If there's going to be a problem, isn't it usually some kind of issue writing to the card? It just seems like the backup options here are very sensible and up to date moving beyond CF with a HDD backup.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Just consider that 1/(2^24) = 0.00000006 (approx.)

In the case of a 1 volt signal, that would mean resolving .06 microvolts. Just consider the noise implications.

And, for another 8 bits (as in 32 bits), divide the above by 256.

DG

Last edited by dgpretzel; 1 week ago at 05:57 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 1 week ago
  #27
RPC
Gear Maniac
 

Well, if they're using e.g. AK5397, it does have 32 bit internal filter coefficients and a 32 bit output. OTOH, Asahi Kasei claims 127dB dynamic range - no mean feat, but that means the bottom 11 bits are noise. One could make an argument for improved extreme-low-level linearity. I will say I'm impressed by the quality of the Mixpre-6 input, especially given the power budget.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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Plush's Avatar
I understand how things are sold so I see that the Cheese People are presenting the machine as having 32 bit conversion. It does not have that and we have reached a whole new level of marketing bits. That is my objection. They are saying, “ours goes to 32.”

I don’t dislike the company and I am sure the machines are quite useable. My objection is clear.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I understand how things are sold so I see that the Cheese People are presenting the machine as having 32 bit conversion. It does not have that
Why do you say that? You keep uttering the same thing and have shown no reason for anyone to believe it. Cite your source please. Oh and being derogatory for no reason. Bush league.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Why do you say that? You keep uttering the same thing and have shown no reason for anyone to believe it. Cite your source please. Oh and being derogatory for no reason. Bush league.

D.
I'll agree that 32bit conversion doesn't offer much practical value given the noise floor of anything that's gonna be plugged into it or of the analog circuitry in the preamps. UNLESS... they set 0dBFS to something like +72dBu instead of +28dBu... then those extra 8 bits really ARE possibly useful headroom. So... has anyone looked at the maximum analog input levels on the unit in question?

But that's no reason not to say "our AD chips are 32 bits" when in fact they are Quite a few other high-end vendors make the same claims for equipment, and nobody who understands this stuff is gonna think "ooooh this goes to 11!" without doing due diligence.

Marketing, like the media, raced to the bottom years ago.
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