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MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)
Old 30th July 2017
  #1
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apotheosis's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)

Hi there,

Inspired by Yannick's love for MS/Blumlein, fig8s and ribbons (he recorded a CD last week where I was playing virginals), I would want to try things myself.
The only ribbons I have are a pair of nicely-sounding NTRs by Rode, but clearly they did not design the mic with coincident stereo in mind...
What objections do you have with the setups attached?

Nr 1 (with organ) was a quick test during a recording session where I used the NTRs as vocal spots - I decided to let them run during a take to hear how they sound (I got them only one week then). Don't mind the bad positioning. This is easiest to setup, but not having the same centre place, I wonder if it would work.
Nr 2 has the Side microphone in horizontal position. The poorest mic clip design as you can't have the mic in 90°...
Nr 3 is the 'classic' way but the ribbons are far away one from another.

What do you think?
Attached Thumbnails
MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)-20170629_182539.jpg   MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)-20170730_175841.jpg   MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)-20170730_180241.jpg  
Old 30th July 2017
  #2
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apotheosis's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Oh, and what about Blumlein? Nr 1 seems odd to turn 45°, Nr 2 has one of the mics turned, so only Nr 3 seems usuable here, or am I mistaken?
Old 30th July 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
it strikes me as being no worse than typical x-y placement, given the constraints of the ribbon baskets
Attached Thumbnails
MS with large ribbons (Rode NTR)-xy.jpg  
Old 30th July 2017
  #4
Gear Nut
The NTR is a good choice for M/S as it has same frequency response using front or back side. This is not true for all ribbons.
Old 31st July 2017
  #5
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Number ! is an array that Roger (Rolo 46) uses with great success with his Fig-8 Sennheisers. We know that it works.

Number 2 may be problematic as the ribbon mics hear the way a line arrays speaks. A ribbon in its normal vertical position hears to the sides very well but not so well up and down. It is a funtion of the linear ribbon shape. I get the same effect with the Pearl DS 60.

Number 3 would be good, too. Try Number 2 and see. If you do not have much time with the mics I would postpone playing with the Number 2 array until you do have a lot of time.
Old 31st July 2017
  #6
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esldude's Avatar
 

Never tried #2 . My pick would be #3 over #1 . Of course my ribbons are cheap Avantones with a different response front vs rear. So I do blumlein (in configuration #3 ) instead of MS.

Using figure 8 condensers either #1 or #3 seemed alright. My preference there however is to #3 as sometimes there was a bit of odd imagining with an MS pair of 8s set up like #1 .

As boojum says, Rolo 46 gets good results with #1 . That might be because his mics are slimmer. Or because he is better at this than I.
Old 31st July 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 

One has to listen and monitor very carefully, for defects in the stereo image, or ambiguities in source placement or comb filtering artifacts or out of phase issues. This has been discussed ad nauseum. Near enough maybe good enough, but then again it may not be.
Old 1st August 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
One has to listen and monitor very carefully, for defects in the stereo image, or ambiguities in source placement or comb filtering artifacts or out of phase issues. This has been discussed ad nauseum. Near enough maybe good enough, but then again it may not be.
I have no disagreement with your statement.

However, I would like to know of any input about the various arrangements in the OP to this thread.
Old 1st August 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esldude View Post
I have no disagreement with your statement.

However, I would like to know of any input about the various arrangements in the OP to this thread.
I would not consider any of them, because the NTR is too large for coincident work. The word is coincident.
Old 1st August 2017
  #10
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I agree with David here. Maybe a simple solo or even duo performance, where you can make sure the two mics are absolutely time aligned.

Do not forget, 4 mm offset can and will make the stereo image considerably worse.

The Rolo46 setup ws meant for Blumlein, not for MS, if I remember correctly.
The setup with the two mics rotated differently will behave strangely, as a long ribbon has a different (uneven ?) polar response in the vertical plane.
Old 1st August 2017
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Side by side or tandem is fine with MKH 30s in MS, they can be closely coupled by the Senny clip
However these are v large dynamic devices and much better suited to vertical alignment imho
Roger
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