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Experiences w/ dpa 4099b and any sound files available??
Old 9th July 2017
  #1
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Experiences w/ dpa 4099b and any sound files available??

Hi Folks,
I'm still searching for some sound files of a DPA 4099b in Live-context with a complete Band (especially Jazz, for example: drummer, piano and brass section) and see how isolated it is. Usually I record on small Live stages with brass left und drummer right to me.

The reason is that I'm still searching for a good Live Microphone for recording a DB with minimal spill. I have heard many mixed reviews, and some bassists have achieved success with the 4099 live, whilst others have a lot problems with spill especially from the louder instruments like trumpet or drums.

So a good sound file would be great to make a dicision in this case - if it worth a buy or not...

Thanks!!

Last edited by ricola; 9th July 2017 at 12:34 PM..
Old 9th July 2017
  #2
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tourtelot's Avatar
I am just curious, and I know little about this, but what is your experience with pickups; like the Fishman and the like? I have a bunch of 4099 mics and I've used them on Hawaiian guitars with some success (better on-mic performance with two players who move around a lot) but I've never tried them on jazz bass. Especially with a stage full of horns. And drums too. Where do you live? If you'd like to borrow one, I could make that happen. I'd be interested in having your experience with the mics.

D.

Last edited by tourtelot; 10th July 2017 at 12:49 AM..
Old 9th July 2017
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
I am just curious, and I know little about this, but what is your experience with pickups; like the Fishman and the like? I have a bunch of 4099 mics and I've used them on Hawaiian guitars with some success (better on-mic performance with two players who move around a lot) but I've never tried them on jazz bass. Especially with a stage full of horns. And drums too. Where do you live? If you''d like to borrow one, I could make that happen. I'd be interested in having your experience with the mics.

D.
A great idea, but I'm afraid Germany is a little to far away from you
However: I don't like the dry Pickup sound...never got happy with it in the mix.
I heard that the Dpa 4099b (especially made for double bass) sounds great. However it is a hypercard I heard about problems in context with a Band on a full stage.
Old 10th July 2017
  #4
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If I read the DPA site correctly, the only thing that makes a 4099B a "bass specific" microphone is the mounting device. I have eight of the 4099 mics and lots and pots of mounts, including magnetic mounts for pianos. The mics seem all the same.

I believe that DPA also makes a 4099 model with reduced sensitivity for drums and brass (I think they specifically say for trumpets.)

Sorry you live so far away. I'd have loved to have a real-world report on how the 4099 works on an upright bass.

D.
Old 10th July 2017
  #5
The DPA-4099 (B) is exactly the same as all the other DPA-4099s. The letter just designates what accessories come in the package with the DPA-4099 microphone.

While convenient, it is not a cure for all bleed. I would still want a DI or amp mic to use in the mix.
Old 10th July 2017
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post

While convenient, it is not a cure for all bleed. I would still want a DI or amp mic to use in the mix.
Yep. No way I wouldn't take either is it was available.

D.
Old 11th July 2017
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
If I read the DPA site correctly, the only thing that makes a 4099B a "bass specific" microphone is the mounting device. I have eight of the 4099 mics and lots and pots of mounts, including magnetic mounts for pianos. The mics seem all the same.

I believe that DPA also makes a 4099 model with reduced sensitivity for drums and brass (I think they specifically say for trumpets.)

Correct on both accounts.
Old 13th July 2017
  #8
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
The DPA-4099 (B) is exactly the same as all the other DPA-4099s. The letter just designates what accessories come in the package with the DPA-4099 microphone.

While convenient, it is not a cure for all bleed. I would still want a DI or amp mic to use in the mix.
I just had the chance to test a dpa4099b on a small stage together with sax, piano and drums to the left and right side. I was very surprised how much spill was picked up from the dpa, however it is a hypercardoid.
The sound of the bass is nice, no doubt, but you get also the sound ouf the rest of the band inclusive.
So in summary (for my taste) the isolation is really bad and it will be definitely not my first choice for using in Live context.
Really sad.
Old 13th July 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Yep. No way I wouldn't take either is it was available.

D.
Yes, but nearly every bassist I recorded Live told me: oh, nooo! Please no DI-Box...it sounds like ****, take a Mic please!
But unfortunately on a small stage you don't record just a double bass, you always get the whole Band sound :-(
Old 13th July 2017
  #10
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Oh, I don't think I would be happy with just a pick-up or even a mic'd amp. But the spill problem is a real one. Typically, the bassist is standing right next to the loudest things on stage. So it is often a choice if a pick-up, paired with the mic(s), or the bass just getting lost in the stage swirl.

I also have to say that my limited experience recording live jazz has not been stellar on many fronts. More real-world experience would help, mentoring would help and research here would help. So I always appreciate it when "jazz" comes up in a thread title.

D.
Old 13th July 2017
  #11
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Can you give us a mental image of how you mounted the 4099? F-hole? Strings over the bridge? Wondering if mounting position options would help mitigate the spill.

D.
Old 13th July 2017
  #12
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Oh, I don't think I would be happy with just a pick-up or even a mic'd amp. But the spill problem is a real one. Typically, the bassist is standing right next to the loudest things on stage. So it is often a choice if a pick-up, paired with the mic(s), or the bass just getting lost in the stage swirl.

I also have to say that my limited experience recording live jazz has not been stellar on many fronts. More real-world experience would help, mentoring would help and research here would help. So I always appreciate it when "jazz" comes up in a thread title.

D.
This is exactly the most difficult point. Every time I try to get another and "better" mic setup, but there are so different opinions in Jazz what is "the right sound".
Quite often musicians told me: hey, I hate all that modern Jazz recordings with every detail you can hear! Just take a single ORTF Stereo about 2 Meters far from stage and just let the things happen. So the listener will get a much better feeling for the music and all the thing "he don't hear"...it's a good thing for creativity and fantasy.
Others told me regulary: what a washing and indirect recording??? I can't hear my sax, the piano is too much situated in the background and the drums sounds like an old hat.
So I always change between minimalistic recording setups and the full equipment and I still don't know what is the best way to recording Jazz. There are too many options :-)
In little and very small Jazzclubs often the sound of the venue is quite bad. Also there is too much bad PA-sound I get into the Mics if I choose a single Room Mic.
When I mic every single Instrument to minimize the bad room acoustics and to get a better balance of every instrument in the mix later...the result often sounds too much in the face and the typical Live feeling gets lost...

This type of Live-recordings are really difficult (but maybe only for me...), because there is no right or false...but too often I hear...it sounds not bad, BUT in my opinion.....
Old 13th July 2017
  #13
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Can you give us a mental image of how you mounted the 4099? F-hole? Strings over the bridge? Wondering if mounting position options would help mitigate the spill.

D.
this position, but very, very closed to the soundboard of the bass (to minimize the room)

Here is a sound sample too from tonight with a Jazz Quartet (Piano+Sax situated left and drums right)
Attached Thumbnails
Experiences w/ dpa 4099b and any sound files available??-vo4099b-4099-clip-microphone-bass-dvote-instrument-microphones-dpa-microphones-l.jpg  
Attached Files

Bass-DPA 4099B_sample.mp3 (2.23 MB, 241 views)

Old 14th July 2017
  #14
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That sound clip sounds good to me. The bleed sounds pretty natural and shouldn't be a problem to mix. You're swinging too.

I have one and I'm a bass player as well. I've used it for amplification as well as recording myself and other bass players. It's been used on at least 4 or 5 different basses / players. I can only tell you my results widely vary depending on the instrument and the situation. On my old bass I put it like that picture. On my new bass I have to back it off (mount the mic outside the bridge instead of under) or it's too muddy.
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