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Misa Criolla using Samar VL373A
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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Misa Criolla using Samar VL373A

The local chorale did a spring performance a few weeks ago which I recorded. I used the regular SD 788T at 24/48K. Samar was used to capture the group. Mic stand was at its extreme about 3.5 meters above the stage with the mic aimed at right angles to the chorale. This is a humble group, barely self-sufficient. Let me know what you think of the recording and what you think it needs. I ran it rhough SAM Pro X3 and added some compression and sweetening with iZotrope Nectar. Nothing exotic, just out-of-the-box settings.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...GVyNUU2REtjMEU

Thanks
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Impressive. If you wanted a rock solid and predictable image, you got it cold. I found it pretty easy to pick out and follow individual voices. Tonality from this mic is also excellent; sounds like it's very flat indeed. And really neutral and transparent.

The thing that bugged me a little was how little bleed there is between channels. It's just too clean (I don't think I've ever said that before). I'm listening on Sennheiser HD 650s through a Grace Designs headphone amp. I suspect this "issue" would be much less of an issue with monitor speakers.

I guess my "complaint" here is that the recording is too good. It sounds like... Roger.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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jnorman's Avatar
Nice work sandy. The Samar is doing wonderfully.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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Hi Sandy,
I am hearing a wishy-washy sound on headphones - did the file get corrupted or am I hearing combs or processing wackiness... thought it was just vibratos but is present on the breath sounds as well. Hope it is just my playback thru my laptop.
Patrick
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Hi Sandy,
I am hearing a wishy-washy sound on headphones - did the file get corrupted or am I hearing combs or processing wackiness... thought it was just vibratos but is present on the breath sounds as well. Hope it is just my playback thru my laptop.
Patrick
Patrick, I do not know what to say. It does not have these flaws here on the CD or using the cue files to suck the WAV file into foobar2000. I can WeTransfer the file to you if you want to send me your e-mail. If you do, just PM me.

So, how are you doing up there in the big city?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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Doing well thanks - hope you are fine - appears that you are recording quite a bit. Keep up the good work!
Yeah I will chaulk this up to funky transfer or how WIN is playing the file maybe trying to truncate it to 16/44.1 ???
Cya round
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Doing well thanks - hope you are fine - appears that you are recording quite a bit. Keep up the good work!
Yeah I will chaulk this up to funky transfer or how WIN is playing the file maybe trying to truncate it to 16/44.1 ???
Cya round
Patrick, I uploaded a CD track, 16/44.1 so there should be no issues with that. Letmeknow what you think when you get the WeTransfer copy. I am groping here with iZotope, and other stuff. ;o)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

<snip>

I guess my "complaint" here is that the recording is too good. It sounds like... Roger.
Being compared to Roger is as high a compliment as can be bestowed on me. Roger knows the figure eight backwards and forwards. He is always what I am shooting for but the bugger keeps raising the bar.

No pun intended with, "Roger knows the figure eight backwards and forwards."

Last edited by boojum; 3 weeks ago at 10:56 PM.. Reason: pun
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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Quite a lovely capture Sandy. Was this Blumlein pair or MS? I know you said "right angles to the choir" but not sure exactly what you meant; I am guessing Blumlein pair. The image and depth are startling good. The Samar seems to have the same sort of juju as Roger's MKH 30 rig.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Quite a lovely capture Sandy. Was this Blumlein pair or MS? I know you said "right angles to the choir" but not sure exactly what you meant; I am guessing Blumlein pair. The image and depth are startling good. The Samar seems to have the same sort of juju as Roger's MKH 30 rig.
Jim, you are right, Blumlein MS. Being mentioned in the same sentence as Roger will get you a a beer, joint and chicken fingers out at Sunnyvale Trailer Park on me. Tell Ricky to bill me. ;o)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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Very good imaging.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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Very nice recording. You're putting that Samar to great use there--now that's a stereo image.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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Hi Sandy,

I really would like to check out one of these for myself. I am curious if you know what makes the MF65 cost such a significant more amount of money? In looking at the specs, the MF65 doesn't seem to offer much more than the VL37. Also, there is not much to hint that they have a significantly different sonic. It also doesn't seem to be machined much differently. Of course, specs don't tell the whole story. Do you have any inside info? Did you audition both?
Thanks!
Cameron
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

From the FAQ:

Q. If there are no sonic differences between the MF65 and VL37 why is the VL37 so much less expensive?
A. The differences between the VL37 and MF65 are mainly accessory and warranty based. The MF65 ships with an integral stainless steel shock mount, a presentation box and the system also supports the optional Blumlein adapter. An MF65 purchase also automatically buys a life time parts warranty.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Impressive. If you wanted a rock solid and predictable image, you got it cold. I found it pretty easy to pick out and follow individual voices. Tonality from this mic is also excellent; sounds like it's very flat indeed. And really neutral and transparent.

The thing that bugged me a little was how little bleed there is between channels. It's just too clean (I don't think I've ever said that before). I'm listening on Sennheiser HD 650s through a Grace Designs headphone amp. I suspect this "issue" would be much less of an issue with monitor speakers.

I guess my "complaint" here is that the recording is too good. It sounds like... Roger.
Actually, on my nearfields, I have the same "complaint". The imaging is extremely good.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
Hi Sandy,

I really would like to check out one of these for myself. I am curious if you know what makes the MF65 cost such a significant more amount of money? In looking at the specs, the MF65 doesn't seem to offer much more than the VL37. Also, there is not much to hint that they have a significantly different sonic. It also doesn't seem to be machined much differently. Of course, specs don't tell the whole story. Do you have any inside info? Did you audition both?
Thanks!
Cameron
I wish I could help you out on this one. But, I know who can. Call Mark at Samar. He is the designer and builder and a great guy. And he will know what the differences are.

I only listened to the VL373A. I like it a lot.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 

MF65 / 373A differences

Hi Cameron : I have had the 65 for about two years and it has been my go to mic pair for MS/Blumlein. Don't have the 37 to compare but last month I purchased a 373a and was finally able to use it yesterday for a session.

My initial thought from this one session is that the 373 is better suited if your intention is to use the mics together as a stereo pair. It is much easier to mount, the angle between the mics can be varied (the 65's Blumlein mount is fixed at 90), since the capsules are "closer" together, the imaging should be better and so on.

The two mics sound close enough (and Mark tunes each capsule/mic personally so you should be able to get him to make it sound the way you want - especially the bass response) that I may not be able to tell the difference in a blind comparison. Cosmetically the MF-65 is in a league by itself; the 373A is ok but has a few rough edges, especially the grill.

The 373A is active so I will be able to use it with my 788 on the road more easily. Finally, the 373A is lighter, easier for video shoots because the it requires a single five core cable cable and the requirements on the stand/mount are easier.

To summarize, if your need is a coincident stereo pair, go with the 373A. If you need to use the two mics separately or as a Faulkner array on occasion, go with the individual mics either the 37a or MF-65 - the main differences are cosmetic to my ears and eyes ;-)

Good luck,
Baithak



Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
Hi Sandy,

I really would like to check out one of these for myself. I am curious if you know what makes the MF65 cost such a significant more amount of money? In looking at the specs, the MF65 doesn't seem to offer much more than the VL37. Also, there is not much to hint that they have a significantly different sonic. It also doesn't seem to be machined much differently. Of course, specs don't tell the whole story. Do you have any inside info? Did you audition both?
Thanks!
Cameron
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
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esldude's Avatar
 

I love that recording technique. And yes, imaging is so clean, and that is good to my way of thinking. Those must be fine mikes, and you did your part so that comes thru.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
Gear Addict
Hey Sandy! Very nice capture there. I enjoyed the whole thing. Pinpoint imaging, nice tone. Does indeed sound like Roger. Bet you're glad you kept that Samar now, aren't you?

Listening on Halide USB-S/PDIF converter --> Benchmark DAC1 USB --> Senn HD650

Last edited by bwanajim; 2 weeks ago at 08:34 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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Thanks Bixby, Baithak and Sandy for the info,

If I do it it would be to replace my SF24 which is often used in M/S with Omni's in a tree like setup. I will likely go with the Blumlein setup. I would be interested if I might feel less need to slightly EQ the Samar next to the SF24? I probably would not go for the active version since my Hapi's have me not ever worry about ribbon noise any longer. Really system noise is just not really an issue and I guarantee an SF12 through a Hapi is quieter than a SF24 with just about any other preamp/AD combo. Honestly, for the first time I hear more HVAC noise when I use my Hapi with an M160 then I do preamp noise i aroom where HVAC noise is not an issue. It helps that one hapi is always on stage next to the source keeping cable lengths at a minimum. Is the shockmount for the 737 fairly straightforward and usable? I did not see it on the web page.
Cameron
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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Thread Starter
Bwanajim and Roonesbane, yes, I am pleased with the Samar VL373A. I like the sound very much and it takes equalization very well. It sounds pretty good without it but the chorale likes a little pixie dust on their stuff to gussy it up a bit. The iZotope Nectar Elements is sweet. It works very well with the Samar and puts enough spin on the hall without it sounding like a horror show. All in all I am very happy. The Samar has returned the best sound I have ever gotten in that hall. To date I have used:

Schoeps Mk4 in ORTF
DPA 4006 TL in AB
DPA 4061 in AB
Pearl DS 60 with and without DPA 4006 TL flankers
Schoeps Mk21 in ECA

Those are all excellent microphones. That the Samar is able to put the silky sheen on the voices in that venue and still be as accurate in localization and true in tone cheers up my funky old butt.

Give a listen to the other Samar of the chorale singing Umoja. It took me a while to sort out the M and S levels and where to put the pixie dust but I think I got a pretty good recording there, too. But I am biased. YMMV

Thank you, all of you, for your sharing and encouragement. It has kept me working at this hobby for a decade now. The books on recording are wonderful but having a source of help and guidance like GS has made all the difference for me. A tip of the hat to you all.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Shock Mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
Thanks Bixby, Baithak and Sandy for the info,

...

Is the shockmount for the 737 fairly straightforward and usable? I did not see it on the web page.
Cameron
So, the mic ships with a very basic mount. Ok for quick use but I would get a nice, nice shock. Haven't really looked at the possibilities since I ran out of time when I was in the US. But I know Boojum has a solution lined up.

Baithak
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baithak View Post
So, the mic ships with a very basic mount. Ok for quick use but I would get a nice, nice shock. Haven't really looked at the possibilities since I ran out of time when I was in the US. But I know Boojum has a solution lined up.

Baithak
Baithak, I wish I did have a solution. I have had a couple of email dialog(ue)s with Rycote about this. They have not gotten enough requests for a mic holder of this diameter to make a lyre for it. The monster mic holder with the four "thumb screws" cannot hold the mic when it is at an angle so that is a non-starter.

To get it to accomodate a tilted mic I put the holder on the audience side of the mic stand and lean it forward from that position. I may be wrong here but it seems to me to be more stable when leaning into the holder than leaning out of it the way it would be were the holder on the performer side of the mic stand. But I am a LibArts grad and have troubles with things like how gravity works.

I sure would like a steadier holder for this lovely mic.

Last edited by boojum; 2 weeks ago at 07:48 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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Image is good Sandy ,clean and most important ,real
Chorale positioning is slightly strange , do you have a pic?
The suspension does look basic, large heavy fig 8s are difficult to mount
Try a retort stand and clamp and use elastics from a short boom or 2 Rycote ULMs onto a stereo bar
Well done, the illusion is complete
Roger
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
Image is good Sandy ,clean and most important ,real
Chorale positioning is slightly strange , do you have a pic?
The suspension does look basic, large heavy fig 8s are difficult to mount
Try a retort stand and clamp and use elastics from a short boom or 2 Rycote ULMs onto a stereo bar
Well done, the illusion is complete
Roger
Made my day, ya did. ;o)

I have had two email conversations with Rycote about mic clips. The USM cannot take the weight of a tilting VL373A. I have one for the DS 60 and it can do that mic just fine but not the Samar. The Samar is longer and therefore has more leverage. The fellow at Rycote I was emailing, and a very nice fellow, a Scot, said that currently there is not enough demand for Rycote to make a sturdy lyre clip for it. Until Rycote does make a lyre, or some sturdy USM, I will have to resort to gaffer's tape or the plastic ties. Small enough price for the sound of these mics. I cannot understand why they did so poorly in the shootout while they sound so good now. Mark at Samar thinks the ceiling was too low at the shootout. He would know. He designed the mics. I really like them as they have a basic good tone and take adjusment well, too. I will research the retort stand. I have seen you using them, too. Good idea.

As for the recording, it is a tossup between the blind hog and the root or I am possibly learning something. We'll see. The other track, Umoja is recorded slightly differently and still sounds good.

Thanks for your help and support. I do not know much but for the most part what I do know I learned here on GS in this forum.
Attached Thumbnails
Misa Criolla using Samar VL373A-img_20170404_202148.jpg   Misa Criolla using Samar VL373A-img_20170530_210329.jpg  

Last edited by boojum; 1 week ago at 04:44 AM..
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