The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Lawo mc²96 IP Console
Old 25th April 2017
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Lawo mc²96 IP Console

Lawo have just announced their new mc²96 IP console (which replaces the mc²90 console).

The real standouts for me are the following:
- SMPTE 2110, AES67, RAVENNA and DANTE support
- built in 4 port Switch with redundancy
- Fully redundant signal path
- 40-bit floating point processing
- Integrated 3D / Immersive mixing engine
- Integrated loudness metering
- Machine / DAW remote control
- Waves SoundGrid Integration (integrate Flux plugins)
- Neumann DMI-8 digital microphone integration
- Parallel compression available on each channel, group, aux and sum
- Dynamic timecode automation
- Cascaded / nested VCAs
- Integrated RTW TM9

Details that are lacking:
- control of V line units

More details:
https://www.lawo.com/products/audio-...les/mc296.html
https://www.lawo.com/fileadmin/conte..._mc2-96_EN.pdf

Remains to be seen how they have implemented the Immersive mixing engine and which formats it supports, if NHK 22.2, Auro-3D or Atmos layouts are supported.
Old 25th April 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
And presto; a 24 fader panel with Dante at 96k. Now, I just need to save my pennies.

Looks absolutely amazing.

D.
Old 26th April 2017
  #3
Very much a serious console for live sound, broadcast or recording. I love that it's got all the features of a radio board like starting a playback when you open the fader or press the "on" button, plus all the automation and such. Reminds me a bit of when the SSL 5000 series first came out.
Old 26th April 2017
  #4
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Anyone have any word on price for the 24C?

D.
Old 26th April 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Old 19th May 2017
  #6
Here for the gear
 

The word on the street is that MTV is putting two of them in their SOTA audio truck when they are released in July. They have been running two mc2-66 Classic consoles. The 96's will be a step up to go along with their truck refurb.
Old 15th June 2017
  #7
Here for the gear
 

Rumor confirmed. The newly refurbished MTV audio truck, Gemini, will have two of the mc2-96 surfaces installed in late July. The truck worked it's first job mixing the music for the recent CMT Music Awards, using two "loaner" surfaces from Lawo for the duties; an mc2-66 mkII and an mc2-56 mkII. Both consoles were integrated through a third Lawo router for maximum flexibility and each desk was running the Waves Grid plugin system. The mirrored control rooms also each have two 192 track Protools systems on MADI. Monitoring is accomplished by Genelec's 8351a speakers. I saw it. Wow, I was impressed. I'm sure I will be more so when they get the 96's installed.
Old 5th September 2017
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Nice surface but it's a shame the DSP engine is still the old Sharc based platform they launched over 10 years ago. 48 channels per card
Old 5th September 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Now if it only sounded good.

Lawo made their reputation in government broadcast installations.

Highlight and unique features were the ability to route any input to any output. To integrate into a building wide infrastructure.

Never in music recording.
Old 5th September 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Plush, so you've heard this panel? What were your specific impressions about the sound?

D.
Old 5th September 2017
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Again, an atomized sound. Non organic--has no qualities of very high quality analog circuitry. Only operates up to 96KHz. Restricted frequency response.

Extreme complexity. A video game.

For example my all analog mic preamps by Rens Heijnis have treble response to 1MHz.

Digitzed sound with no soul. Not endorsed.

A console for news and television shows.

A broadcast board heard at the 2016 Tonmeistertagung in Cologne, Germany.
Old 5th September 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Now if it only sounded good.
Peter Cobbin says you're uninformed.

"We wanted a console with high-grade preamps and excellent summing buses, and the Lawo mc²66 was the best on the market."

"It is really amazing, and offers amazing flexibility according to my needs. And, of course, it is a great-sounding desk."


Quote:
Never in music recording.
Philharmonie de Paris says you're uninformed. Plenty of classical recording being captured and mixed with Lawo consoles.
Old 5th September 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
No, none of the above have told me that I am uninformed.


I AM informed. I am informed by listening. I have followed the Lawo company for 15 years. I have used their consoles.

However, my opinions differ from yours. I have not heard the console in Paris, but I will probably next year. I can give you a revised opinion if my impression differs from what I wrote today.

Cobbin does great work. However, his comments that you quoted were delivered as a sycophant at the Radio France studio. He was part of a huge project to record the film Valerian and, naturally, would praise the sound of the production he was being paid to make.

Welcome to the Recording Business! where endorsements are made by well known engineers every day. They endorse one thing one day and then a competing thing the next week!

Welcome to the Recording Business!


We notice however, that Cobbin's place of employment, Abbey Road, has not replaced any analog Neve consoles with the German Lawo board.
Old 6th September 2017
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
No, none of the above have told me that I am uninformed.


I AM informed. I am informed by listening. I have followed the Lawo company for 15 years. I have used their consoles.

However, my opinions differ from yours. I have not heard the console in Paris, but I will probably next year. I can give you a revised opinion if my impression differs from what I wrote today.

Cobbin does great work. However, his comments that you quoted were delivered as a sycophant at the Radio France studio. He was part of a huge project to record the film Valerian and, naturally, would praise the sound of the production he was being paid to make.

Welcome to the Recording Business! where endorsements are made by well known engineers every day. They endorse one thing one day and then a competing thing the next week!

Welcome to the Recording Business!


We notice however, that Cobbin's place of employment, Abbey Road, has not replaced any analog Neve consoles with the German Lawo board.
The thing to bear in mind is that, apart from the surface and maybe some software changes, the rest of the console is the same as Lawo's existing MC series. The DSP and I/O is not new, so I wouldn't think it sounds any different to the way Lawo consoles have sounded for the last 10 years.
Old 6th September 2017
  #15
Lives for gear
 
huub's Avatar
Don't feed the grumpy old man.
Old 7th September 2017
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Laughable! Is it purely flashing lights that seduce engineers?

Lawo is a very modern and capable digital console for broadcast.

The gist of my post is that I have an opinion that it is not in the top rank of great sounding consoles.

YOu might have a different opinion. But make sure it is an educated opinion borne of experience.
Old 7th September 2017
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
YOu might have a different opinion. But make sure it is an educated opinion borne of experience.
Well Huub uses Lawo consoles on a daily basis on a wide variety of large scale Projects (including music recording).

So, he's probably more educated and informed based on direct and vast experience with Lawo consoles, than someone forming an opinion based on a brief listen at a trade show. On this topic, his opinion is even more relevant than mine, since he has spent much more time on Lawo consoles than I have.

I suggest you have a look at his credits before making such statements.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Nut
 

I don't post here much but have enjoyed reading a good many opinions by some well informed individuals and some not so informed.

Music Mix Mobile owns (3) LAWO consoles and are adding another shortly. We have used technology from many of the leading digital console manufacturers through the years, and can say without hesitation LAWO is one of the most musical sounding digital consoles we've ever had the pleasure to mix on, and it's feature sets are quite extensive.

So if you are a hater of the system, very well, but anyone who has ever spent time with the LAWO's (preamps, EQ's, Dynamics) will tell you it surely represents the top of the digital game.

The 96 is a well thought out addition to the LAWO family. And LAWO is at the forefront of AoIP. This company is a powerhouse, responsive to the customer and brilliant at what they do.

INHO

Joel Singer
Music Mix Mobile
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
You guys did not fully read my earlier posts. I said that the Lawo is a very capable and good broadcast console. Radio and television broadcast is its design brief and that is what it is made for. Routing, feeding, resetting are its sworn merits.

I said that I have used the console and not just listened to something at a trade show.

My point is that, no, I do not consider LAWO at the top of great sound. You are free to differ with me since mine is an opinion, not gospel.

I use a Neve analog console and super converters to obtain a supersound. I require very high clock speed recordings.

So my orientation is different from LAWOpeople here.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Nut
 

"Now if it only sounded good", was the opening volley of your first post.

That to me sounds like you listened to the console, worked on it, evaluated it, and came to the opinion that it doesn't sound good.

My post was responding to that comment.

If you're comparing a Neve Analog console and a LAWO Digital Console you might as well compare an Apple to a cow.

I came from the world of analog and still use analog gear quite often. Believe me I know what a 8078 or 8068 sounds like and am quite fond of it.

But in the world of digital consoles which the new 96 and other LAWO offerings are in, the LAWO IMHO has a musical sound to it that no other digital console offers. And that includes some with price tags 4x or 5x more.

Please don't take this post as a call to arms, I just don't care for off the cuff blanket statements smearing the good name of industry leaders without just cause.

LAWO has built a reputation of excellence in their audio, video and IP products. And it is proven day in and day out with productions around the world.

Thanks again ........
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Yes, that's right.

Again you did not read or understand my post. I praised the capabilities of the console and did not down it.

Your company is using it exactly as intended. It is bespoke designed for exactly what you are doing.

I am not in television broadcast sound. I am in classical music recording business.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Why would the sound signature of a great radio broadcast or a great classical music recording be any different for a proper engineer? If I were making a radio broadcast, I'd be happy to have a releasable product created from my work. I would bring my best skills and gear to the project irregardless of the final destination.

BYW, Plush, are you recording at a higher resolution the 96/24? Seems like the benefits of a higher sampling rate are, let's say, highly debated in engineering circles far above my pay grade.

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Why would the sound signature of a great radio broadcast or a great classical music recording be any different for a proper engineer? If I were making a radio broadcast, I'd be happy to have a releasable product created from my work. I would bring my best skills and gear to the project irregardless of the final destination.

BYW, Plush, are you recording at a higher resolution the 96/24? Seems like the benefits of a higher sampling rate are, let's say, highly debated in engineering circles far above my pay grade.

D.
You have raised a good topic and one that can indeed be separated out with broadcast recordings and record session recordings talked about as distinct and different animals.

While primarily a record maker, I am also a live broadcast specialist and have made many thousands of live radio broadcasts for America's largest and most important classical station, WFMT Radio in Chicago. We always try to offer the listener the really good sound but there are some time and logistic constraints that can limit deep and wide "stereo picture" sound quality.

In contrast, record sessions are planned out for days in advance, have more site surveys, have more staff on board than broadcast and a panoply of high technology is devoted to getting the best one can on that day.

Broadcast recordings have limitations in where one can put the microphones, less rehearsal time than ideally wanted, chosen media available, equipment chosen for radio broadcast standards etc.

Primarily it is the limitation of mic placement in something that has tv involved, has opera sets involved, involves an activist "stage look" committee, has over active and paranoid stage managers involved, has head of the opera company concerned that one's large tube mic is blocking the front row big donor's view of the voluptuous Russian soprano's cleavage, etc.

Yes, in record sessions I am using 60 volt mics and super converters up to 384kHz. Custom analog console of course--treble response to 1 MHz. Putting the mics exactly where they need to be and experimenting doing that. It all takes time and time is not what broadcast work has in a gracious plenty!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
In contrast, record sessions are planned out for days in advance, have more site surveys, have more staff on board than broadcast and a panoply of high technology is devoted to getting the best one can on that day.
Clearly you operate in a different world.

All my live television and radio broadcast work has involved planning months in advance, multiple site surveys for audio team as well as the visual team, with "high technology" employed throughout.

Broadcast has massive teams compared with simple audio recording sessions for CD release or even for film scoring, where the control room may only have about six people on the session (engineer, assistant, tape op, producer, composer, orchestrator, parts editor), sometimes even less (often due to people doubling up, i.e. composer also orchestrates and edits parts, engineer also tape ops, no assistant).

Contrast that with some of the broadcast work I have been involved in where the audio recording team comprises at least 10 people, not counting the FOH sound team, stage monitor mix team, live broadcast audio feed team, comms, and then also the visual editor, colour grading, vision mixers, and the rest of the visual department, producers, directors, et cetera.

At AES Poland in 2015, I went out with a live broadcast team from the national broadcaster for a music festival. Audio recording team alone involved 15 people in three OB trucks.

I did the same during AES Berlin in 2014, with the national broadcaster. Similar size audio recording team, not counting the rest of the audio team.

I worked on the Cape Town International Jazz Festival for 10 years (previously called the North Sea Jazz Festival), and the live recording and broadcast team was massive, spread over 5 stages, a day team and a night team, over three festival days. Many of those recordings were released by the artists on compilations, such as Tower of Power, Herbie Hancock, Courtney Pine, Spyro Gyra, et cetera.


Quote:
Broadcast recordings have limitations in where one can put the microphones, less rehearsal time than ideally wanted, chosen media available, equipment chosen for radio broadcast standards etc.
My experience has been somewhat different.

Studio recording sessions are in blocks of 3 hours. There are usually 3 sessions per day. True for film scoring, classical performance for release, live music broadcast, et cetera.

Often, that involves three different performers per day, and with only an hour between sessions, strike and setup needs to be quick, and not much time is allotted to mic placement.

Often, the engineer uses mic scratch tests and studio conversation to quickly ensure that when the producer walks in, it's in to record almost immediately.

My experience is that Broadcast has more time involved, since usually it's a much larger undertaking.

Last edited by reynaud; 4 weeks ago at 04:59 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Some more information and news on the Immersive formats supported on the mc² consoles (launched at IBC 2017), supporting:
Dolby Atmos (7.1.2 & 5.1.4 bed), MPEG-H, AURO-3D, DTS:X, NHK 22.2, IMAX 6.0 and 12.0, Sennheiser AMBEO

With Pyramix 11.1 now supporting ADM metadata with BW64 files end-to-end, it may be interesting pairing it with a Lawo console. No more manual writing to ADM metadata servers, since it now happens all in software within the DAW.

Sequoia 14's support for ADM metadata and BW64 is still much less developed than that available in Pyramix 11.1
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I simply told you how I do it. I am working in live broadcasts for classical radio, not for television.

For live broadcasts, I work with one assistant while I act as engineer / producer.

All these are world-wide broadcasts with the biggest stars in the world.

My discussion in my post above is describing recording sessions for records, not for broadcast recording sessions which are, as you say, usually rushed.

One good thing about working in radio is that one develops an ability to set up very fast and get a good sound fast. This helps in record sessions too. My mentor told me that if you can't get a sound in 10 minutes, you're not a good engineer.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I simply told you how I do it. I am working in live broadcasts for classical radio, not for television.
Well classical radio is also broadcasting. Working at the national broadcaster meant I was often responsible for both live feeds (radio and television) of a live orchestral or choir performance, or jazz, or traditional music.


Quote:
My discussion in my post above is describing recording sessions for records
My post included recording sessions for records. Often records were recorded over several days, a single session on the Monday, another on the Thursday, and sometimes pickups on the Sunday as a last session, for example.

Music release recording on a particular day may mean classical in the morning session, jazz in the afternoon, and then traditional in the evening session. That's one day.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Here for the gear
 

What an interesting thread this has been. I would love to sit with you and discuss this all over a beer sometime. I came back to this thread just a week before the 2017 AES in New York, and will be attending the morning after mixing the first live music broadcast on a mc2-96. Well, the first in North America. One of the demo 96's got sent to Rockin' In Rio for a trial run. This is nothing new to us. We had the first Lawo music desk of any kind in North America. Fortunately in the recent console swap We hung on to our Lawo transformered preamps, now out of production...what a shame. In our search for a music console that eventually brought us to our first Lawo, we auditioned everyone's digital desk with an ear toward the best sounding preamp. We were prepared to buy the most versatile console and integrate the best sounding preamp and did a sound shoot-out to that end. Shoot-out included SSL, Grace, Millenium, and the venerable Neve 1073. We were astonished that Lawo won both of those battles. I'm certain that you could assemble enough disparate gear to build a really top sounding system. It wouldn't be cheap, or very flexible, or necessarily reliable but you could do it. Now, do it to accomodate 300 microphones. That's my Lawo. But, be heartened. I will enjoy listening to your classical recordings and broadcasts as well.
Old 6 days ago
  #29
Lives for gear
 

unfortunately you didn't include the Stagetec AURUS Platinum....
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump