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EZ Playback Thumb Drive For Client
Old 12th April 2017
  #1
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tourtelot's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
EZ Playback Thumb Drive For Client

I am having trouble wrapping my head around this idea but I am sure that it will be easy, somehow.

We currently use Alesis Masterlink ML-9600 CD/HDD recorders to render a quick CD that gets given to the client at the end of the performance. The Masterlink, for being an old horse, does some nice things like separate the performances into tracks, and allow simple editing if the track mark button is pushed a little late to bring it into the correct spot. Updated Masterlinks render the discs quickly so no homework involved. I can burn a couple of copies while I'm packing up my stuff.

But the are old horses and become harder and harder to keep alive. CD drives replaced, HDD replaced, not too bad. But the displays are starting to go wonky because of age. Dried up caps and fractured solder joints I suspect.

Anyway.

Anyone brainstorm a good way to get the concert onto a thumb drive from a 2-track mix on some recorder (788T, JoeCo, etc) and hopefully more "markers" than two halves of the performance, with simple playback on someone's home stereo. For goodness sakes, some of these folks play it in their car on the way home. Everyone has a CD player so the Masterlink CDs are a no-brainer for the client. How could I make this easy for them without increasing my pre-edit work-load by a major factor? Needs to be easy-peasy both on the getting-it-on end and the getting it into Joe Conductor's home hi-fi end. Must be a way. Any brilliant ideas?

D.
Old 12th April 2017
  #2
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Behringer xr12 and xr16 will record 2 track direct to USB. Start/stop after each song to get separate tracks. Sound craft ui24 will apparently do multitrack direct to USB, but I would wait until it has been on the market long enough for reliable reviews to happen.

Or use a tascam dr70d to record show onto sdxc and use a laptop to copy the file onto a USB drive.

Or burn your CD and copy it over to USB on a laptop.
Old 12th April 2017
  #3
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I put the card in a reader (7xx) or plug in the USB stick (JoeCo) to my laptop after the show and pull over whatever they want onto another USB stick, as well as their walk-away drive.
Old 12th April 2017
  #4
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I believe Reaper can read markers made with the 788t. You could set the 788t to record onto an external FireWire drive (along with its other internal media) and set markers for songs as you record. Then after the show it would be the work of just a few minutes to plug the drive into your laptop, cut up the files based on the markers, and dump them to a flash drive.

-Mike
Old 12th April 2017
  #5
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tourtelot's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Yes, a lappy would make the file transfers possible, but I am still not sure that most of my clients would have the ability to play back a usb stick to hear their performance. I could pull the 2-mix into Pro Tools on the laptop and bounce and burn a disc but now we are talking about a fair amount of more time at wrap. Not necessarily okay with either the crew or the client.

Gotta say that the stupid Masterlink fills this need pretty well. Maybe I'll just become proficient in Masterlink maintenance. Guys did it for years with Ampex MM1200s

D.
Old 12th April 2017
  #6
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

There's also the Tascam SS-CDR200.

Seems like it works similarly to the Masterlink - you can record your mix to its SD or CF card in real time during the show, stopping and starting it all the way to create new files for each song. Then you can burn an audio CD from those files. Less CD authoring options than the Masterlink but may be more reliable.

-Mike
Old 12th April 2017
  #7
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jnorman's Avatar
Doug - I haven't made a CD in a few years now. Everything is either MP3 files emailed to the client, or audio/video uploaded to YouTube, or wav/MP4 files on Dropbox. Likewise, very few actual CD sales from the albums on my label - all sales are digital downloads. For people who want to walk away from a session with something in hand, I picked up a quantity of 2gb thumb drives for $1 each. Many new cars can play directly from a thumb drive, but most folks get the emailed files on their phone, and Bluetooth to the car player.
Old 12th April 2017
  #8
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I have two Masterlinks sitting unused at home. PM me if you want to chat.
Old 12th April 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Doug - I haven't made a CD in a few years now. Everything is either MP3 files emailed to the client, or audio/video uploaded to YouTube, or wav/MP4 files on Dropbox. Likewise, very few actual CD sales from the albums on my label - all sales are digital downloads. For people who want to walk away from a session with something in hand, I picked up a quantity of 2gb thumb drives for $1 each. Many new cars can play directly from a thumb drive, but most folks get the emailed files on their phone, and Bluetooth to the car player.
The cloud solution seems best, if you're going to be recording to a laptop or tablet as a safety backup on location anyway. Create new files as often as necessary and you could be uploading them to Dropbox or WeTransfer as the concert is running. Theoretically the last movement could be uploading as they are walking to their car/bus/tram for the journey home.

So it just becomes dependent on the upload speed of the recording venue's internet connection...or your own wireless dongle.

Else they could bring you their phone at the end of the concert and you upload the audio files directly to it via a usb cable...which (if mp3) could take, like, 3 mins ? Reaper let's you record simultaneously to 2 drives, so it's possible you could also be recording mp3 on one and .wav on the other (if Reaper allows ?)

In principle I disagree with this 'must have it instantly haste'...which reduces a concert performance to the level of a sporting event, with immediate slo-mo replays and multiple camera angles and endless analysis of minutiae...simply because the technology allows/enables it.

Why pander to this mindset with instant file delivery....you should be relaxing and winding down your over-active mind (as you wind up your cables ), not stressing over yet another fabricated deadline ?

Better that the conductor goes home with the pleasant memories of the actual experienced concert ringing in their ears...and then review/post-mortem it later at leisure. Let 'em wait, I say...

Additionally...I hope they're as prompt in paying you as they are in their haste to receive music (no, sorry let's just be crass and call it "data") from you !

But then, conductors are a funny breed.....

Last edited by studer58; 12th April 2017 at 11:19 AM..
Old 12th April 2017
  #10
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Part of the problem is that FireWire has been surpassed in convenience by USB but the 788 still uses FireWire. Maybe they will update this series to use sdxc cards with a USB backup?

In the meantime, most of the options seem to involve using a computer to move the files onto USB at some point.
Old 12th April 2017
  #11
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

This is what I do in-studio after live webcasts so guests can walk with a souvenir. Different, but the workflow might work for you:

1. Mix track is on PT computer. Divvy up into segments.
2. Export WAV's to USB flash drive. (for my application mp3's are fine, but same process)
3. Move flash drive to MacBook.
4. Drag WAV's into iTunes playlist.
5. Burn CD.

Just a thought.
Old 12th April 2017
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
..... In principle I disagree with this 'must have it instantly haste'.... simply because the technology allows/enables it....
I myself and me, we are just plain ol' scared of it, maybe hopefully with good reason.

In my case, I don't think think a 2-track reduction of the captured raw concert tracks, however artfully done, would begin to compare with the agonizingly manipulated mix I can send them, what, the next day if they want it-- and I always want the first impression to be, "sheeeeeeeet, didn't we sound amazingly great!"

This kind of mind-fogging and what have you, this underhanded (and a little bit crooked) deceptivity, that's a big part of my job... isn't it? Isn't it the sum total of my job, really?
Old 12th April 2017
  #13
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Thread Starter
Just to be clear, this "Instant CD" process only ever happens on straight to stereo jobs, which we do a lot of. Two good mics, two good preamps and a good (most of the time) room. Lots of choral, small ensembles and even on large orchestra, maybe four mics (let's say omnis with outriggers) but no really mixing issues. On the multi-track jobs, CD sessions et al, we always run a number of recorders and don't normally provide the producer with a two-track mix, and NEVER the ensemble. What Joel sez is true; quick way to lose a client.

So I ran a test today. My MacBook, a bus-powered HDD, a thumb drive and a RW CD.

Recorded to the 788T and used all three media to capture, INHDD, CF, and EXHDD. The INHDD and the CF got the whole multi-track files, the EXHDD just the L and R. Files right to the thumb drive, file copy drag and drop. Played fine in iTunes and I suspect Media Player. Files from the EXHDD into Toast and burned to CD. Plays fine. Took a while since toast has to render the 24bit files to 16bit but probably no longer than the ML-9600 takes to burn a disc (much faster processor in the MacBook.) So I can do the same thing on the MB plus make a thumb drive. Only thing I would miss is the ability to define "tracks" on the ML9600 disc, but not a deal breaker.

FWIallW.

D.
Old 12th April 2017
  #14
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It seems like being able to hand of a scratch/demo mix at the end of a show recording has been kind of expected for a long time. Those MasterLink decks worked really well for that for a very long time--I briefly worked in a recording truck many years ago where my job was rolling up to 6 of them so that all the check-writers could walk away with an audio-souvenir that night. Anymore I agree that if a USB stick hand-off won't work then the next best thing is an upload of an MP3. Yes, the MP3 crunch-down and upload might have to wait until I get home from the gig, since on most of my jobs my hands are needed for the strike. I could roll another machine in MP3 mode I guess, and there are other ways to skin the cat, but I seem to need to upload and forward the files in any case, no matter what happens re in-person delivery at the gig. I wonder what Steve Remote does about this....?
Old 14th April 2017
  #15
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huub's Avatar
I personally can not even play CD's anymore.
Handing people usb sticks has become the standard really (we mostly give out MP4's with video of the concert).

If I need to hand over usb sticks with audio instantly I make an extra stereo track in reaper and record only that track onto a usb drive. Reaper lets you do that, very convenient.

I do not bother with cutting the file up in songs.
Old 14th April 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
If I need to hand over usb sticks with audio instantly I make an extra stereo track in reaper and record only that track onto a usb drive. Reaper lets you do that, very convenient.

I do not bother with cutting the file up in songs.
This is a very useful feature, outlined here in a bit more detail: http://www.reaper.fm/guides/reaper_recpath_guide.pdf

....and if your main recording drive should happen to lock up the next day during editing (and if you didn't make a backup to a separate simultaneously-running machine)......you can always make an emergency plea to recall that USB you handed out at the the end of the concert Reaper runs well on Smackbooks

"Please mister, can I have my ball back "....(I need to clone it)
Old 14th April 2017
  #17
Gear Addict
I know this is a far fetched and crazy expensive idea, but...the hyper-geek way to do this would be to send the stereo mix from the 788 to a Nagra Seven with the WiFi/3G card. Have the Nagra mirror onto a thumb drive, and send to your choice of cloud service as well. At the end of the session, you whip out the thumb drive, hand it to the client, along with a link to the files in the cloud. People get notified of the share on their mobiles before they even leave the venue. They can plug in headphones and listen on the way home. That's the way everyone listens to music anyway.

Damn, that would be slick.
Old 15th April 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
I am having trouble wrapping my head around this idea but I am sure that it will be easy, somehow.

We currently use Alesis Masterlink ML-9600 CD/HDD recorders to render a quick CD that gets given to the client at the end of the performance. The Masterlink, for being an old horse, does some nice things like separate the performances into tracks, and allow simple editing if the track mark button is pushed a little late to bring it into the correct spot. Updated Masterlinks render the discs quickly so no homework involved. I can burn a couple of copies while I'm packing up my stuff.

But the are old horses and become harder and harder to keep alive. CD drives replaced, HDD replaced, not too bad. But the displays are starting to go wonky because of age. Dried up caps and fractured solder joints I suspect.

Anyway.

Anyone brainstorm a good way to get the concert onto a thumb drive from a 2-track mix on some recorder (788T, JoeCo, etc) and hopefully more "markers" than two halves of the performance, with simple playback on someone's home stereo. For goodness sakes, some of these folks play it in their car on the way home. Everyone has a CD player so the Masterlink CDs are a no-brainer for the client. How could I make this easy for them without increasing my pre-edit work-load by a major factor? Needs to be easy-peasy both on the getting-it-on end and the getting it into Joe Conductor's home hi-fi end. Must be a way. Any brilliant ideas?

D.

All of that can be easily accomplished with either Samplitude or Sequoia and a notebook computer in one go.

You will use the program to record the concert, in any number of microphone tracks as you like. You drop the CD track marker and enter all the metadata as the concert progresses and you can edit out the dead space between the pieces and movements as the concert is being recorded, also in real-time. While you are at it, you can also adjust the balance between all the tracks/microphones, even stick in some effects into the mix, again, doing all that while the concert is being recorded. Finally, as the concert ends, you trim out the applause before you even hit the stop recording button. Then, you export all the perfectly trimmed CD tracks with all the metadata into your Dropbox folder which should take about 1 minute or two, depends on your computer speed. Once that is finished, you can then burn a CD in about 3-5 minutes, if the CD burner is fast enough. Oh, while the computer is burning the CD for your client, you can share the dropbox folder with the client. It sounds almost too good to be true but I have been doing just that for years with Sequoia program. The total amount of post-concert time this will take is less than 10 minutes before you can pack your computer up and go home.

Best regards,

Da-Hong
Old 15th April 2017
  #19
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celticrogues's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
All of that can be easily accomplished with either Samplitude or Sequoia and a notebook computer in one go.

You will use the program to record the concert, in any number of microphone tracks as you like. You drop the CD track marker and enter all the metadata as the concert progresses and you can edit out the dead space between the pieces and movements as the concert is being recorded, also in real-time. While you are at it, you can also adjust the balance between all the tracks/microphones, even stick in some effects into the mix, again, doing all that while the concert is being recorded. Finally, as the concert ends, you trim out the applause before you even hit the stop recording button. Then, you export all the perfectly trimmed CD tracks with all the metadata into your Dropbox folder which should take about 1 minute or two, depends on your computer speed. Once that is finished, you can then burn a CD in about 3-5 minutes, if the CD burner is fast enough. Oh, while the computer is burning the CD for your client, you can share the dropbox folder with the client. It sounds almost too good to be true but I have been doing just that for years with Sequoia program. The total amount of post-concert time this will take is less than 10 minutes before you can pack your computer up and go home.

Best regards,

Da-Hong
That sounds awesome. Both of those programs are windows only though aren't they?

-Mike
Old 15th April 2017
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticrogues View Post
That sounds awesome. Both of those programs are windows only though aren't they?

-Mike
This can be done in Reaper too.
Old 15th April 2017
  #21
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Seems to me almost everyone in this thread (other than our venerable Mr. Seetoo) is making it way more difficult than it needs to be.

Just get a cheap $300 laptop and a cheap $250 interface with S/PDIF. Record the stereo buss mix digitally from an AES output on your 788 via a Canare AES to S/PDIF barrel adapter. (The Neumann version is unreliable; get the Canare. They're cheap, $20 or so.)

You'll be recording the audio into Samplitude on the laptop in real time, just like you would be with the Masterlink. You can drop track markers as the concert goes just as easily as hitting a button on the Masterlink. You can edit the track markers if needed afterward probably more easily, then burn a CD right from the Samplitude session (which has always been a major missing feature in Pro Tools).

No drive transfers or USB sticks needed. It'll be just as easy as the Masterlink and probably sound better.

Having said that, I haven't burned a CD in years and if somebody gives me one I even consider it an inconvenience (living in a dense urbania where most of the people I know don't even own cars). I do everything online.

Last edited by grrrayson; 15th April 2017 at 05:56 AM..
Old 15th April 2017
  #22
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2MuchStuff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
Seems to me almost everyone in this thread is making it way more difficult than it needs to be.

Just get a cheap $300 laptop and a cheap $250 interface with S/PDIF. Record the stereo buss mix digitally from an AES output on your 788 via a Canare AES to S/PDIF barrel adapter. (The Neumann version is unreliable; get the canare. They're cheap, $20 or so.)

You'll be recording the audio into Samplitude on the laptop in real time, just like you would be with the Masterlink. You can drop track markers as the concert goes just as easily as hitting a button on the Masterlink. You can edit the track markers if needed afterward probably more easily, then burn a CD right from the Samplitude session (which has always been a major missing feature in Pro Tools).

No drive transfers or USB sticks needed. It'll be just as easy as the Masterlink and probably sound better.

Having said that, I haven't burned a CD in years and if somebody gives me one I almost consider it an inconvenience. I do everything online.
Does the OP have an 788 ? I really don't think a cheap laptop would do, unless he gets a good used one that coast $3,000.00 four years ago. Plus, Samplitude's not cheap, unless you get an older used version, and then the cheap interface with S/PDIF is just not adding up, or actually,,, it is adding up real fast money wise. you figure an $6,000.00 to $7,000.00 788T, he's looking at dumping another 2K. If the OP does have an 788T, maybe he could get a CF to SD Card Adapter and a WiFi SD Card and mix the stereo buss to it, then afterword's just WiFi the mix from the SD to the Client's phone..., that EZ,?
It a shame the 788T doesn't have a USB type A out. I've been using an

SanDisk 64GB Connect Wireless Stick with my A&H QU-32, pretty cool little thumb drive, When I'm done recording, I Just unplug it, push a button on the side that puts it in WiFi mode, type in IP into browser and there it is. Right click save as target. I'd Like to try modifying that Masterlink, replace the CD Drive with an IDE to CF Card adapter/WiFi.., something, somehow.
Old 15th April 2017
  #23
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grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchStuff View Post
Does the OP have an 788 ?
I have noted from previous posts that he does.

If he's not using it, I'm sure there's another way to feed a cheap laptop interface.

Quote:
I really don't think a cheap laptop would do, unless he gets a good used one that coast $3,000.00 four years ago.
For recording a stereo mix? You could do this on a tablet or maybe even a phone these days. I'll bet big money a $300 laptop will do.

Quote:
Plus, Samplitude's not cheap, unless you get an older used version
The cheapest versions start at $99 according to a Google search I did right now.

Quote:
and then the cheap interface with S/PDIF is just not adding up, or actually,,, it is adding up real fast money wise. you figure an $6,000.00 to $7,000.00 788T, he's looking at dumping another 2K. If the OP does have an 788T, maybe he could get a CF to SD Card Adapter and a WiFi SD Card and mix the stereo buss to it, then afterword's just WiFi the mix from the SD to the Client's phone..., that EZ,?
It a shame the 788T doesn't have a USB type A out. I've been using an

SanDisk 64GB Connect Wireless Stick with my A&H QU-32, pretty cool little thumb drive, When I'm done recording, I Just unplug it, push a button on the side that puts it in WiFi mode, type in IP into browser and there it is. Right click save as target. I'd Like to try modifying that Masterlink, replace the CD Drive with an IDE to CF Card adapter/WiFi.., something, somehow.
Whoa! Save yourself the effort.

So...with what I mentioned above we're talking about $600 to replace an item that listed for $1699 when it came on the market.
Old 15th April 2017
  #24
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2MuchStuff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
I have noted from previous posts that he does.

If he's not using it, I'm sure there's another way to feed a cheap laptop interface.



For recording a stereo mix? You could do this on a tablet or maybe even a phone these days. I'll bet big money a $300 laptop will do.



The cheapest versions start at $99 according to a Google search I did right now.



Whoa! Save yourself the effort.

So...with what I mentioned above we're talking about $600 to replace an item that listed for $1699 when it came on the market.
I'm with ya.. I do think the CF to WiFi SD adapter, would work for a stereo mix right along with your setup.
Old 15th April 2017
  #25
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2MuchStuff's Avatar
From the Track-to-Media View, tracks are individually assigned to CompactFlash, Internal Drive, or
External media. This is extremely useful for those recording to a deliverable media, but only select
tracks need to be delivered. For Example, the specifi c application may require ten-track recordings,
two-track stereo mix and eight isolated tracks. Instead of recording ten tracks to all three media, the
user can select which tracks are written to each media. The user may opt to record all ten tracks to
internal drive, eight isolated tracks to CompactFlash, and the two-track stereo mix to DVD-RAM.

stereo mix assigned to CompactFlash, record concert, pull card, start packing gear, catch-up with Client, reach in pocket, push button on SD WiFi card,have Client/ Him or Her put IP in their phones browser ,right click, save as target..., then they can Bluetooth it on the way home that EZ,PEEZE?
Attached Thumbnails
EZ Playback Thumb Drive For Client-sd-cf-adapter-type-i.jpg  
Old 15th April 2017
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

For years, I have been using a 12-year-old tablet PC, a RME UFX interface which has direct-to-USB-drive recording functionality serving as backup recording, and Sequoia program. Granted, I have been using Sequoia for a long time, close to 18 years so ownership plus version upgrade cost of the software is not exactly cheap for that 18 years. But, the current entry level Samplitude is not expensive yet can do all what OP needed to. On the plus side, Sequoia is rather computing power friendly for simple task of recording, cutting out dead space and burning CDs. The fact I can do these with a 12-year-old tablet that came with Windows XP OS tells you a lot. Actually, This thing is so out dated I can’t even give it away but it works well enough for me as a location PC. (I just did a recording session on this computer this past week with 16 tracks @192KHz without a single glitch, using a Motu B16 stage box)

There must be millions of different ways one can adapt to accomplish the same set of tasks but we are talking about picking the most efficient one(s). To me, this combo is pretty efficient.

Best regard,

Da-Hong
Old 15th April 2017
  #27
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2MuchStuff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
For years, I have been using a 12-year-old tablet PC, a RME UFX interface which has direct-to-USB-drive recording functionality serving as backup recording, and Sequoia program. Granted, I have been using Sequoia for a long time, close to 18 years so ownership plus version upgrade cost of the software is not exactly cheap for that 18 years. But, the current entry level Samplitude is not expensive yet can do all what OP needed to. On the plus side, Sequoia is rather computing power friendly for simple task of recording, cutting out dead space and burning CDs. The fact I can do these with a 12-year-old tablet that came with Windows XP OS tells you a lot. Actually, This thing is so out dated I can’t even give it away but it works well enough for me as a location PC. (I just did a recording session on this computer this past week with 16 tracks @192KHz without a single glitch, using a Motu B16 stage box)

There must be millions of different ways one can adapt to accomplish the same set of tasks but we are talking about picking the most efficient one(s). To me, this combo is pretty efficient.

Best regard,

Da-Hong

Man I miss my RME UFX I almost S##T myself, a couple months back, I seen one in the ebay completed listing's Buy it now, $300.00 free shipping, because the display would come and go. Its been awhile since Ive used Sequoia, but Ive been with Samplitude from back in 90's "Samplitude Studio" and a good ole 486 I remember my first CDRW an HP $800.00 plus and a 200MB hard drive would set you back about $500.00. Anyway I'm still an exclusive Samplitude user, I tried PT 11 when it came out, because of the hype, and within a month it was on ebay, Instruments pack and all. Anyway,
Samplitude is way underrated and as you guys are saying, it would be the goto choice. Hell I've used it on my little Acer 10" Atom cpu, 1.5Gig of ram no problem. Just saying, I do agree, hands down.
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