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Rens Heijnis schoeps mode
Old 28th March 2017
  #1
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Rens Heijnis schoeps mode

Today the moded Schoeps CMC6 bodies arrived. It consists of a separate small 60V power supply box, the inner electronics in CMC6s is changed, 3 pin connector in the bodies is changed for 4 pin connector and 2 pairs of cables have to be used (mics - power supply + power supply - preamp).

I was really curious to try if it is just a placebo or something has changed.

I quickly AB tried it (MK2 capsules on moded vs. umoded CMC6 bodied) on few acoustic instruments (flute, viola, percussions, monochord).

I was a bit sceptical ... but somehow (unless it is just a mind projection) I feel so far that with the moded bodies do sound a bit different, the sound is a bit more detailed, clean and 3D (and maybe a bit more realistic) comparing to the umoded bodies that in comparison sound a bit less spacey and a bit "boxy" ... Not sure if it is some EQ effect or not ...

Will try more later
Old 28th March 2017
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
...the sound is a bit more detailed, clean and 3D (and maybe a bit more realistic) comparing to the umoded bodies that in comparison sound a bit less spacey and a bit "boxy" ...
This is what you wanted, yes?
Old 28th March 2017
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
This is what you wanted, yes?
Yes, but mind is a powerful magician and not the same takes etc.

So, now, to be absolutely sure, I started from something a bit ugly sounding, but really perfect and exact AB comparison and this is mono

Two Schoeps MK2, one with moded body, the other normal , put as close as possible and few instruments played from a distance. So the same take, same position, same capsule, just 2 different bodies used (both normalised to 0) . Do you hear any difference ?

I just quickly played few tones on hang drum, rammer drum, monochord and flute (the flute was strong with lot of resonances with other instruments placed nearby)

Stereo samples may follow later

You can hear all this here: www.savitamusic.com/mastering/mono.zip

All dry, without any processing. Forssell SMP-2 - Forssell MADA-2. I wonder if anyone hears any difference ...

Last edited by ISedlacek; 28th March 2017 at 06:58 PM..
Old 28th March 2017
  #4
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Why did you go for the 4 Pin mod instead of the 6 pin? Downloading your comparison now...
Old 28th March 2017
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
Why did you go for the 4 Pin mod instead of the 6 pin? Downloading your comparison now...
I don't know, I was not offered any other option ... Is there any difference in it ?
Old 28th March 2017
  #6
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whippoorwill's Avatar
The clarity is so much greater in the 6 pin mod, it makes the 4 pin mod seem like your microphones have been dipped in chocolate sauce and left out in the rain for two weeks in comparison.

Kidding- there's no sonic difference I think, it just changes whether he splits out the audio and capsule electronics in the schoeps or in the preamp and then I think it is more efficient power wise to go with 6 pin than 4 pin, but that only matters if you are using a battery powered preamp or power supply which you didn't go for.
Old 28th March 2017
  #7
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whippoorwill's Avatar
listening to the samples from a mono speaker, and I am biased, the rens mods sound more defined to the point of you could move your mics back a little bit. It is minor, and I do feel in every instance the heijnis was better, but i would say if you were to introduce more complexity again, like a second instrument, the heijnis would be even more evidently clearer.
Old 28th March 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Yes, but mind is a powerful magician.......

...
This test has already lost its value by mentioning which samples are modified and which not. Bias.

Another point to mention is you compare apples with oranges. Due to the audiophile character of Heijnis' design, I assume the welknown filter of 12dB per octave at 20Hz offered standard by Schoeps has been taken out of the Heijnis design. Already this will influence the sound. If that would be such great advantage, it is cheaper to take out the filter from a standard CMC6.

I think you should offer us stereo samples in a blind test set-up.
Old 28th March 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorno View Post

Another point to mention is you compare apples with oranges. Due to the audiophile character of Heijnis' design, I assume the welknown filter of 12dB per octave at 20Hz offered standard by Schoeps has been taken out of the Heijnis design. Already this will influence the sound.
So you want to say that the only valid comparison is when all is identical ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorno View Post
This test has already lost its value by mentioning which samples are modified and which not. Bias.
Nothing prevents you to listen blind in various ways
Old 28th March 2017
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorno View Post
This test has already lost its value by mentioning which samples are modified and which not. Bias.

Another point to mention is you compare apples with oranges. Due to the audiophile character of Heijnis' design, I assume the welknown filter of 12dB per octave at 20Hz offered standard by Schoeps has been taken out of the Heijnis design. Already this will influence the sound. If that would be such great advantage, it is cheaper to take out the filter from a standard CMC6.

I think you should offer us stereo samples in a blind test set-up.
Meh. Ivo owes you nothing. He owes us all nothing. He was kind enough to offer us some samples because so many people expressed interest. He never suggested these samples were somehow state-of-the-art scientific tests.

Please don't take individual data points to be anything other than what they are.

Personally I thank Ivo for his generosity in posting the samples. I've got a new set of headphones coming in tomorrow; I'm looking forward to some listening.
Old 28th March 2017
  #11
Gear Addict
Than you, Ivo, for providing these comparison recordings.

To my ear, the modded mics sound different; they are clearly picking up more of the room. That can be a good thing (usually) or a bad thing (occasionally). Listen for the "hum" background sound in the spaces between the notes (I hear it as around 145 Hz, but it has harmonics also); it is clearly louder in the modded version. In fact, I happened to start with the flutes, and it sounded like an electronics defect to me at first. But, it is also there (but more quiet) in the non-modded recordings, so it must be something in the room.

The attacks of the Hang samples, and especially the "bloom" of the notes sounds more pronounced in the modded sample. Overall, the modded one sounds clearer and more present to me.

Thanks again for posting the samples.
Old 28th March 2017
  #12
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Thanks for these, Ivo. Greatly looking forward to some stereo comparison samples!
Old 28th March 2017
  #13
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PuebloAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Today the moded Schoeps CMC6 bodies arrived. It consists of a separate small 60V power supply box, the inner electronics in CMC6s is changed, 3 pin connector in the bodies is changed for 4 pin connector and 2 pairs of cables have to be used (mics - power supply + power supply - preamp).

I was really curious to try if it is just a placebo or something has changed.

I quickly AB tried it (MK2 capsules on moded vs. umoded CMC6 bodied) on few acoustic instruments (flute, viola, percussions, monochord).

I was a bit sceptical ... but somehow (unless it is just a mind projection) I feel so far that with the moded bodies do sound a bit different, the sound is a bit more detailed, clean and 3D (and maybe a bit more realistic) comparing to the umoded bodies that in comparison sound a bit less spacey and a bit "boxy" ... Not sure if it is some EQ effect or not ...

Will try more later
Welcome to flavor country, Ivo!
(apologies for the obscure American comedic reference)

I am curious how you might find the Rens mics coupled with a 60V version of our Pueblo Audio JR2/2 microphone preamplifier.

(Disclaimer: Pueblo Audio has no affiliations with Rens. Our only interested is in supporting audio innovations which deliver material results. We feel Rens' mics are such an innovation.)

Last edited by PuebloAudio; 28th March 2017 at 11:44 PM..
Old 28th March 2017
  #14
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Ivo, no good deed goes unpunished. No matter how scientifically you run your tests some will find fault. In Yiddish the expression is zup shpayer, or soup spitter. They get no good from the soup and make sure that no one else does. Luckily it is not much of a problem on GS.

Your test and the opinions of many whom I respect all say that Rens' modifications are well worth the money.

BTW, how are you doing with the Samar?
Old 28th March 2017
  #16
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Here , for a good night, few real stereo tones on the big concert monochord ... Of course, two takes, not identical, but for me it gives a certain information (I tried stereo on other instruments as well and the difference seemed to be similar) . Unless I am mistaken, to me it sounds like if the original Schoeps sound a tiny bit tensed, while the moded ones a bit more relaxed, fuller and closer to the real live sound of the instrument. Not night and day of course, but a little bit Let us see tomorrow

www.savitamusic.com/mastering/real.zip
Old 28th March 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDeF View Post
. Listen for the "hum" background sound in the spaces between the notes (I hear it as around 145 Hz, but it has harmonics also); it is clearly louder in the modded version. In fact, I happened to start with the flutes, and it sounded like an electronics defect to me at first. But, it is also there (but more quiet) in the non-modded recordings, so it must be something in the room.
Oh yes, I know, there are about 10-15 very resonating instruments around now, string and metal (because of making some photos and also trying them now), so whatever I played, got some multiple "reverb" response from around ... Sorry about it ... it is not a serious recording now ... just a quick test ... but still a part of recorded sound ...

All was normalised to 0 , so in theory none should be louder, but maybe the extra captured resonation made it louder ?

In general , I feel that the moded mode sound a bit more spacey, 3D ...
Old 28th March 2017
  #18
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The power supply in the moded unit is not well filtered. There is high level of 50hz and 150hz(3rd order) noise in all the recording clips. It needs to be addressed.
Old 28th March 2017
  #19
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Oh yes, I know, there are about 10-15 very resonating instruments around now, string and metal (because of making some photos and also trying them now), so whatever I played, got some multiple "reverb" response from around ... Sorry about it ... it is not a serious recording now ... just a quick test ... but still a part of recorded sound ...

All was normalised to 0 , so in theory none should be louder, but maybe the extra captured resonation made it louder ?

In general , I feel that the moded mode sound a bit more spacey, 3D ...
In a way, it's nice that those resonating instruments are there for this quick test recording, because they are more apparent (to me) in the modded mic recordings, which I take to mean that the modded mic is pulling in more detail.

I also tend to have lots of resonating instruments around, and sometimes have to add damping materials (towels, red felt piano tuning temperament strips, etc.) when recording in my studio.
Old 28th March 2017
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo View Post
The power supply in the moded unit is not well filtered. There is high level of 50hz and 150hz(3rd order) noise in all the recording clips. It needs to be addressed.
I thought it might be something like that when I first listened, but I hear it in the un-modded clips as well. Is it plausible that it would be leaking into those as well, Da-Hong?
Old 29th March 2017
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDeF View Post
I thought it might be something like that when I first listened, but I hear it in the un-modded clips as well. Is it plausible that it would be leaking into those as well, Da-Hong?
There might be some 50Hz acoustic hum in the room so both microphones would pick it up therefore you heard it in the un-moded mic. However, the moded mic has much higher level of the hum and it didn’t deviate in frequency at all which suggests electrical in nature. It is also possible that the moded mic power supply is introducing some sort of double grounding problem which can lead to hum in the un-moded mic track. It is easy to figure out which is which just by doing the same recording setup again but un-plug the 60V power supply from the wall in the middle of the recording and observer the hum level change in the un-moded mic recording.




Da-Hong
Old 29th March 2017
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Here , for a good night, few real stereo tones on the big concert monochord ... Of course, two takes, not identical, but for me it gives a certain information (I tried stereo on other instruments as well and the difference seemed to be similar) . Unless I am mistaken, to me it sounds like if the original Schoeps sound a tiny bit tensed, while the moded ones a bit more relaxed, fuller and closer to the real live sound of the instrument. Not night and day of course, but a little bit Let us see tomorrow

www.savitamusic.com/mastering/real.zip
Thanks for these samples, Ivo.

I do hear a marked difference in the modded versions. For me it's most evident in the attacks of the notes -- with the unmodded, there is a touch of a bright edge to the attacks, whereas on the modded version, the attacks are clear and open but sit 'in' the sound spectrum rather than on 'top' of it -- they seem smoother yet not lacking at all in presence. The low register resonance in the modded sample also seems a liiiittle bit more open, but not 'fatter' or louder in any way.

Listening here on HD600 through Benchmark DAC1 USB.
Old 29th March 2017
  #23
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesmr View Post
Thanks for these samples, Ivo.

I do hear a marked difference in the modded versions. For me it's most evident in the attacks of the notes -- with the unmodded, there is a touch of a bright edge to the attacks, whereas on the modded version, the attacks are clear and open but sit 'in' the sound spectrum rather than on 'top' of it -- they seem smoother yet not lacking at all in presence.

Yes, exactly my feeling too ... similarly for other instruments as well ...

As for that hum - I forgot to switch off my big Quested, where one of the speakers is waiting for an amp replacement, started producing that hum recently ... sorry But a part of the test ambience
Old 29th March 2017
  #24
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Yes, but mind is a powerful magician and not the same takes etc.

So, now, to be absolutely sure, I started from something a bit ugly sounding, but really perfect and exact AB comparison and this is mono

Two Schoeps MK2, one with moded body, the other normal , put as close as possible and few instruments played from a distance. So the same take, same position, same capsule, just 2 different bodies used (both normalised to 0) . Do you hear any difference ?

I just quickly played few tones on hang drum, rammer drum, monochord and flute (the flute was strong with lot of resonances with other instruments placed nearby)

Stereo samples may follow later

You can hear all this here: www.savitamusic.com/mastering/mono.zip

All dry, without any processing. Forssell SMP-2 - Forssell MADA-2. I wonder if anyone hears any difference ...
Thanks for uploading the files. Very interesting differences. For me this modded Schoeps are distinctly superior to the unmodded ones: more air, more room, more depth, more 3D, more relaxed, more focussed, more finelined, more natural. Not huge worlds apart, but one of those kind of differences you never would be without anymore after this experience, I bet.
Old 29th March 2017
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Thank you ISedlacek!
Great to finally hear moded vs unmoded!
Initial quick listening gives me the clear impression that the modified version sound better. The difference was actually much bigger than I expected. The sound is more DPA like!
I will do a blind test later when I get time, to make sure I am not biased.

Do you have two pairs so that you can record stereo simultaneously? That would be great!
Old 29th March 2017
  #26
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I have 3 pairs of different Schoeps capsules but not 2 pairs of the same, sorry

But you can listen to the stereo recording of the monochord posted above
Old 29th March 2017
  #27
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Plush's Avatar
Thank you Ivo for taking the plunge with the Rensmods and your good tests. The completely new electronics in the microphones combined with the 60 volt powering will deliver new nuances of better sound to you.

Anyone but a cloth-eared ingrate can hear it.

Laughable that some posters speculated that the Rens power supply was defective. You are talking about the top classical music electronics man in the world here.
Old 29th March 2017
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

If your playback system does not have good low frequency range and resolution to show you the low-level hum, or your ears have low the sensitivity at 50Hz, or you simply refuse to admit there is more noise in the moded channel all I can say is more power to you.

Perhaps your visual ability is not as impaired when you care to look at the spectrum display of the files.
Old 29th March 2017
  #29
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brhoward's Avatar
 

Ivo,

Thanks for posting these stereo samples.

They are resounding proof the Rens mods make for, in many ways, an enhanced schoeps mic body. The rens mic body circuit provides a different lens on what the schoeps capsule is hearing. For me, the most important change is the transient clarity—with the onset of a sound I hear a more relaxed and 3D sound stage.

(edited out comments regarding noise, I didn't see the OPs comment about slight hum from speakers until now)

Last edited by brhoward; 29th March 2017 at 10:38 PM..
Old 29th March 2017
  #30
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I already explained that the slight hum was caused by the humming monitor that I forgot to switch off. It has nothing to do with the mics or power supply. No need to elaborate it any more
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