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Schoeps ORTF with Nagra 7 Condenser Microphones
Old 12th August 2016
  #1
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Schoeps ORTF with Nagra 7

Schoeps ORTF Stereo Microphone MSTC*64*U
with
Nagra 7 recorder

probably good enough for capturing simple music performances?


Old 12th August 2016
  #2
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You betcha, hard to get much better.

I guess a couple of MKH30 in MS Blumlein would be better.
Old 12th August 2016
  #3
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I think M/S is probably the most flexible single pair solution out there, I'm loving MK22 with MK8.
Its not the best solution to everything, but if I could only have one pair to record ALL of music, id go with that, it gives you a clear focus and directionality, lots of options in bad rooms (especially if you go for a few different mid caps, like mk41, mk2 and mk8). I haven't heard that particular Schoeps bar, but the mk4 isn't their finest capsule, but im not really a fan of straight cardioid so what do I know.
Old 12th August 2016
  #4
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Plush's Avatar
Enjoy the triumph of the Absolute Nagrist.
Old 13th August 2016
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
Schoeps ORTF Stereo Microphone MSTC*64*U
with
Nagra 7 recorder

probably good enough for capturing simple music performances?


You'd be better served with two Schoeps CCM4Lg and the Schoeps ORTF bar. It would give you more flexibilty (two seperate mics for other uses) compared to the MSTC 64. With the MSTC 64 you are stuck with just ORTF.

I use the Nagra Seven with CCM4Lg & ORTF bar a lot.
Old 13th August 2016
  #6
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry View Post
You'd be better served with two Schoeps CCM4Lg and the Schoeps ORTF bar. It would give you more flexibilty (two seperate mics for other uses) compared to the MSTC 64. With the MSTC 64 you are stuck with just ORTF.

I use the Nagra Seven with CCM4Lg & ORTF bar a lot.
thank you for that information. Glad to hear good experiences with the Nagra 7
Old 14th August 2016
  #7
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I am using Schoeps ORTF Stereo Microphone MSTC 64 U and a pair DPA 4006 or 4011 with a Nagra VI. Absolutely Fantastic and easy to setup!
Old 15th August 2016
  #8
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I have an MSTC 64 which I love for the ease of setup and precision but I agree that MS (I'd go with mk4/mk8, although I've had some good success with mk21 or mk5 as mid) is a better catch-all default array. It especially drives me crazy when I see people record chamber concerts that have different ensembles and soloists all over different parts of the stage for different pieces with the ORTF mic—the image will be goofy and uncentered, whereas the MS will be much more usable to get a consistent and centered sound for each of the different player positionings in that case.
Old 15th August 2016
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grrrayson View Post
I have an MSTC 64 which I love for the ease of setup and precision but I agree that MS (I'd go with mk4/mk8, although I've had some good success with mk21 or mk5 as mid) is a better catch-all default array. It especially drives me crazy when I see people record chamber concerts that have different ensembles and soloists all over different parts of the stage for different pieces with the ORTF mic—the image will be goofy and uncentered, whereas the MS will be much more usable to get a consistent and centered sound for each of the different player positionings in that case.
What I did for my original purchase was get two CCM4Lg and a single CCM8Lg. Giving me three seperate mics to use as, well, seperate mics, plus ORTF & M/S.

The versatility was well worth the expence.
Old 28th January 2017
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
Schoeps ORTF Stereo Microphone MSTC*64*U
with
Nagra 7 recorder

probably good enough for capturing simple music performances?


This is my dream rig! I record my own ensembles for archiving purposes, and this setup would be ideal for this, albeit perhaps a bit overkill. I recently bought a used MSTC, and I love the ease of setup and the audio quality. Considering that I only use it for archiving purposes, the ease of setup easily outweigths the lack of versatility. At the moment I use it with a Zoom F8 (my apologies, Plush), but I will eventually buy the Nagra Seven as well.

Cheers,
Vincent
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
This is my dream rig! I record my own ensembles for archiving purposes, and this setup would be ideal for this, albeit perhaps a bit overkill. I recently bought a used MSTC, and I love the ease of setup and the audio quality. Considering that I only use it for archiving purposes, the ease of setup easily outweigths the lack of versatility. At the moment I use it with a Zoom F8 (my apologies, Plush), but I will eventually buy the Nagra Seven as well.
Apologies for my self-quote, but I just wanted to share that I have ordered a Nagra Seven! I am super stoked and look forward to using it together with my Schoeps MSTC. My dream rig is about to become a reality!

Cheers,
Vincent
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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Best Wishes from an Absolute Nagrist.

You will love it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Best Wishes from an Absolute Nagrist.

You will love it.
Thank you so much, Plush! I am proud to become a member of the Nagra family.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
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Love my Nagra Seven but with my budget Sennheiser MKH8040.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry View Post
You'd be better served with two Schoeps CCM4Lg and the Schoeps ORTF bar. It would give you more flexibilty (two seperate mics for other uses) compared to the MSTC 64. With the MSTC 64 you are stuck with just ORTF.
Yep, that’s what I’d advise as well.

It’s important to understand that ORTF is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It just happens to be one of a zillion possible combinations of polar response, spacing and angles that worked well for one organisation recording orchestras.

It’s a pretty safe technique in general, quite forgiving, but there are times when a different spacing and/or angle between the same mics will give you a superior result.

Get the gear Jack Henry suggested. When you’re in a hurry, set it up in ORTF. When you’re not in a hurry, experiment with other possibilities...

Also, I love my Nagra 7!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
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Oh, wait a minute...

You said “simple music performances’”.

Can you elaborate on that? It could mean anything - including things that ORTF and similar might not be a good choice for.

Last edited by Simmosonic; 4 weeks ago at 12:03 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmosonic View Post
Yep, that’s what I’d advise as well.

It’s important to understand that ORTF is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It just happens to be one of a zillion possible combinations of polar response, spacing and angles that worked well for one organisation recording orchestras.

It’s a pretty safe technique in general, quite forgiving, but there are times when a different spacing and/or angle between the same mics will give you a superior result.

Get the gear Jack Henry suggested. When you’re in a hurry, set it up in ORTF. When you’re not in a hurry, experiment with other possibilities...

Also, I love my Nagra 7!
Hi There Greg.

How's the traveling? I've been watching via FB as usual. Kerry & I missed you when we in Sydney a couple of months ago with Scotty & Co......
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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Unless your MSTC is hanging, you can re-adjust its stand and capture the music wherever it is being played on stage.

I commonly walk up and move the stand if players have moved to one side or are not centered on stage.

ORTF is pretty near a standard set up and universal pick up.
Why else do you think French Radio devised the set up?

Last edited by Plush; 1 week ago at 03:28 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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Simmosonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry View Post
Hi There Greg.

How's the traveling? I've been watching via FB as usual. Kerry & I missed you when we in Sydney a couple of months ago with Scotty & Co......
It’s all good here, John! Back in Bangkok at the moment putting together the new rig for the ‘new way’ I’m going to be working from now on. But we can discuss that elsewhere, rather than hijacking this thread...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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My new recording setup.
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps ORTF with Nagra 7-484167ce-fde7-48c7-8184-5324c5e835b2.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
My new recording setup.
As an owner of a Pelican 1450, that picture makes a strong argument for your new setup without any additional explanation necessary.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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Cases speak louder than words
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
My new recording setup.
thank you and congrats.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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Simmosonic's Avatar
 

I’m just going to ask again, what is it you intend to record? ORTF is great and very forgiving but there might be better choices depending on the type of stuff you intend to record. For example, if I had a choice between ORTF and MS to record a string quartet in a concert hall I’d probably take ORTF, but if I had to record an acoustic guitarist who sings in a small club or cafe I’d take MS.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
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Like I said in a previous post: rehearsals and gigs of my own ensembles, so convenience is important. I know that ms or or doing ortf with separate mics offers more flexibility, but convenience is important for me, and this setup offers me this, besides of course providing great audio quality.

Cheers,
Vincent
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
I know that ms or or doing ortf with separate mics offers more flexibility, but convenience is important for me, and this setup offers me this, besides of course providing great audio quality.
I’m all for convenience and I’m not suggesting using separate mics and so on. The quality of the Schoeps stuff is excellent, I’m a big fan - and even moreso when used with a Nagra!

The reason I’m asking about the specific things you’ll be recording - down to instruments and genres - is because ORTF might not be the best approach, and you can get equally convenient mic rigs in other configurations.

For example, I’ve spent years running around Asia and the Himalaya with a Schoeps MS pair - CCM4 and CCM8 - in a Rycote blimp that kept them together in the MS configuration with shockmounting and offered a single output on a 5-pin male XLR. When indoors I removed the blimp itself, leaving the mics in the shockmount. It was exactly the same convenience level as the fixed ORTF rig you’re considering - pick it up, screw it onto the mic stand, plug in the single 5-pin XLR, run the cable, done. The CCM4 is the same size as the mics on the ORTF rig, btw, and the whole rig weighed next to nothing.

A rig like that would cost more then the ORTF rig you’re considering (you’ve got to add the considerable cost of the Rycote, among other things) but if ORTF is not the right approach for your needs then you might find yourself using a classy system to make average recordings.

Another option that I find very interesting at the moment is the combination of Sennheiser’s AMBEO microphone and a Zoom F4. That will give you a single microphone with a single cable, and it’s based on the Soundfield Ambisonics idea so you’ll get a B-Format signal (four tracks) that you can adjust and steer in post-production to control width, depth, horizontal direction, vertical direction and so on. The latest firmware for the F4 supports B-Format so you get monitoring on location without having to jump through hoops on the internal mixer. It’s worth considering if you want the convenience of something that’s easy to set up, and unlike ORTF it gives you the opportunity to change microphone polar responses and direction after the event - in case the chosen mic placement wasn’t ideal. It’s also cheaper than the system you’re currently thinking of.

https://zoom-na.com/news/zoom-announ...hip-sennheiser
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
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Thank you for sharing your experiences. I agree with pretty much everything you said, but have decided otherwise. Before this rig I used a Zoom F8 and a Tetramic, and interestingly I noticed that more often than not I decoded the recordings to ortf, as that sounded the best to me. So when I had the opportunity to buy a Schoeps MSTC at almost half price (second hand, of course), I decided to use that mic instead. And since buying that mic I did not need more than two channels anyway, so saved up to buy my dream recorder, the Nagra.

In short, I understand your point, but my experience has taught me that my current ortf rig is very well suited to my needs (and I can always buy some Sennheiser or Schoeps fig 8 and card mics at a later point )

Cheers,
Vincent
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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Simmosonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
Before this rig I used a Zoom F8 and a Tetramic, and interestingly I noticed that more often than not I decoded the recordings to ortf, as that sounded the best to me.
It’s cool that your preference for ORTF came through something adjustable like the Tetramics, because it means you can try different things with ease without needing to pull down and swap microphones all the time. That’s a great way to work, I reckon.

Were you using two Tetramics and all 8 tracks of the F8?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
And since buying that mic I did not need more than two channels anyway, so saved up to buy my dream recorder, the Nagra.
You won’t go wrong with the Nagra 7. I love mine. I’m a mnmlst so I like to keep things simple, and I like the limitations and challenges of being forced to record only direct-to-stereo. It doesn’t work for all jobs, but when it does, it’s great. I always embrace anything that lets me do a good job with less stuff!

Schoeps mics always sound great through Nagra preamps, too.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
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No, I used one tetramic, so four channels on the Zoom, and decoded the tracks using the Harpex plugin. And indeed, the Nagra-Schoeps combi sounds awesome!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #30
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I really like these mics and do a lot of things that aren't exactly "ortf", but just use one of the mic's as a main and the 2nd just as a fill. For example I like to use this setup where it's a "mono"ish type of recording where I point one mic at a object/player placed fairly closely (i can go even to a couple of inches), then the 2nd mic is used more to get ambient tones and is just barely mixed into the "primary" mic as needed. There's just a lot of creative things you can do with ortf if you play around. Another thing is again a more "mono"ish recording, but having the "main" mic pointed at the person/singer/mouth and the 2nd mic pointing at the chest (so slightly adding a "base" element to the primary mic). Anyway I really love these mics and using them as mono mic+ works for me in many cases to build a solid mono track.
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