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Haun/MBHO modular system microphones - omni as a main stereo pair?
Old 7th September 2015
  #1
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Thread Starter
Haun/MBHO modular system microphones - omni as a main stereo pair?

I don't hear much of these microphones.
They have been mentioned few times in a few treads but not really easy to get the stable idea about their sound quality.
I'm looking for the omni pair as a main pair for classical recording as Korneel/Apotheosis, so I follow his tread as well, but wondering if MBHO with the omni caps couldn't do the right job for the high quality recording?

I know - the price is not up to the "greatest", but Line Audio is neither

Any new experiences would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Pol
Old 10th September 2015
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polifonia View Post
but not really easy to get the stable idea about their sound quality.
The problem with MBHO is just that... they are not stable
I used several capsules/preamps and except for the cards, they were not so good.
This summer I tried the flat omni. Clearly the OM1 were far better.

Last edited by mathieujm; 13th September 2015 at 10:04 PM..
Old 11th September 2015
  #3
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Thread Starter
Thanks for your reply.
Pity to hear actually you did have such an experience. I wonder if this counts for all of them.
And good for the OM1. They seem to be higher and higher appreciated.
On Sunday a colleague of mine will test the MBHO omnis as well.
Will see what he says.
Old 11th September 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polifonia View Post
Thanks for your reply.
Pity to hear actually you did have such an experience. I wonder if this counts for all of them.
And good for the OM1. They seem to be higher and higher appreciated.
On Sunday a colleague of mine will test the MBHO omnis as well.
Will see what he says.
The signal level of the OM1 is rather low. So it gets noisy at a distance. Haven't checked the MBHO myself.
Old 13th September 2015
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
The signal level of the OM1 is rather low. So it gets noisy at a distance. Haven't checked the MBHO myself.
This was THE problem for me before I bought a pair.
Now I use them with my FR2LE to record from harpsichord to organ. I never had any noise problem (ok, i don't do super silent studio recordings...)

Here is a short excerpt with the silence of the concert before the harpsichord, recorded at 4m (there were other instruments)
Attached Files

OM1 Clavecin extrait.mp3 (1.71 MB, 2427 views)


Last edited by mathieujm; 13th September 2015 at 10:25 PM..
Old 13th September 2015
  #6
And here is the test for Polifonia, as promised.

MBHO KA (free field with slight HF lift) in a not that excellent but quite okay hall on harpsichord and flute.
Live, no editing, and it was hot, so don't mind the tuning...
Omni AB 30cm, about 2,5m far and 2,2m high.
Needed a lot of gain (around 50dB) and did not sound very spectacular in my opinion. Yet workable. I would prefer my OM1's in any case.

Temporary sound demo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Gravelines.wav

Last edited by apotheosis; 13th September 2015 at 11:37 PM.. Reason: AB30
Old 14th September 2015
  #7
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Thread Starter
Thanks Korneel for doing this test.
Yeah...comparing to Josephsons not much will sound spectacular :D But there is something what I like in the sound of the mics. It might be players, but will listen more careful later or the quality is only there
I'm sure playing yourself you didn't have that much time to work on balance, so even more well done.
Now you say you would prefer OM1, it would be great to hear them ones side to side.
Old 14th September 2015
  #8
I recorded the rehearsal before the concert, checked afterwards and moved the microphones, we played another piece, I moved them again. Microphones were too high = too distant pickup and harpsichord too strong (!!).
I actually think the recording went pretty well given the circumstances, but there is something lacking in the sound that I do have in even worse halls with other microphones.

They actually sound pretty okay, though nothing more than okay for me. I would not use them as mains, as I would need more detail and especially more depth in the treble.
My harpsichord sounds rather good, but the flute sounds somehow 2D, as if recorded in another space.
Old 15th September 2015
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis View Post
And here is the test for Polifonia, as promised.

MBHO KA (free field with slight HF lift) in a not that excellent but quite okay hall on harpsichord and flute.
Live, no editing, and it was hot, so don't mind the tuning...
Omni AB 30cm, about 2,5m far and 2,2m high.
Needed a lot of gain (around 50dB) and did not sound very spectacular in my opinion. Yet workable. I would prefer my OM1's in any case.

Temporary sound demo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Gravelines.wav
The flute seems too distant to me, and then the acoustic is not nice for the flute. But the harpsichord sounds very beautiful here! Which harpsichord is it?
AB could be a bit more than 30cm.
Old 15th September 2015
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrich View Post
The flute seems too distant to me, and then the acoustic is not nice for the flute. But the harpsichord sounds very beautiful here! Which harpsichord is it?
AB could be a bit more than 30cm.
This is the harpsichord (mine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9GxgpLlYE
Funny thing is that the mics were aimed directly at the flutist, who was standing one meter in front of the harpsichord.
Nice thing is that my harpsichord is self-providing for acoustics, it resonates beautifully.
Yet even on my harpsichord, which indeed sounds very good, it does not give me the 'complete picture' that DPA's or Josephson's give, and that OM1's approximate.
Old 15th September 2015
  #11
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Old 18th September 2015
  #12
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Hi, Marcus here from Germany (I work for MBHO in sales).

Most of our clients use 603's or 604's mic bodies with our omni capsules, and we receive enthusiastic feedback (and many CDs in the mail) about the recordings.

mathieujm, you wrote the mics are "not stable". Feel free to explain what you mean. MBHO mics are entirely handmade in Germany by Mr. Haun and Mr. Schneider (formerly Schoepps) and we offer a lifelong warranty on our mics to the original owner, which includes re-calibration of capsules etc. in case they are not matched anymore.

Please get in touch either with MBHO directly (mbhous@yahoo.com, mbho.de, or Dan at Dale Pri Audio, NYC, our US distributors) for any questions in case you have pair which is not on sync anymore (if I understand the "unstable" correct?).
Old 18th September 2015
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdemuth View Post
Hi, Marcus here from Germany (I work for MBHO in sales).

Most of our clients use 603's or 604's mic bodies with our omni capsules, and we receive enthusiastic feedback (and many CDs in the mail) about the recordings.
Hello Markus,

Nice to hear you here.
I would be very happy to hear those recordings you've mention.
Could you provide any details? It can be great to know the titles of the CD's, but also if you know how the mics where used in the recording (main pair /spot).

Let us know if it's not an impossible question.

Regards,

Pol
Old 19th September 2015
  #14
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Hey guys,

Korneel/Apotheosis was here just a couple days ago and we briefly discussed the results of last weekend's recording and from the comments I read above, I think the KA100D would have been better for this particular recording, as I get the feeling that Korneel prefers a generous but smooth treble response. The KA100L was probably a bit too "neutral". The room was also not that great apparently.

I have to point out that the 603/604 and KA SD capsules combos don't need a ton of gain, they spec at about -30dBV, so around 10 dBs more sensitivity than the OM1/KM80 range/C451 etc. If you need 50 dBs of gain with a 603/KA100, be ready to max out your preamp's gain range with a KM84.

The MBHO 600 Seires combos have about 4dBs less noise than the OM1, or KM83/84, or other classic and many of todays budget SDC's and is on a par with other modern TLM designs. As I pointed out to Korneel the other day, IMHO, the OM1 is a great proximity Omni, while the MBHO's shine at longer ranges (mid-high sensitivity, low noise, treble emphasis). The OM1 is very, very "Free Field" indeed, it's response is almost a straight line. The MBHO's boost the usual 10K area a bit for the 100L, a bit more with the 100D.

Yes, it's best to order MBHO capsules in matched pairs, but so far the modular series capsules have proven stable over several months. The fixed capsule 400 models can drift a tiny bit over time, but we're talking most likely nothing truly noticeable before years go by, and MBHO will re-match them at no charge.

Since we're on the 400's... The 410 is a good, quiet, sensitive Omni with more treble lift than the KA100L but less than the KA100D. I've been suggesting it to OM1 users who need a quieter, slightly brighter Omni for distance work. It performs well in this application.

Kudos to Marcus for offering manufacturer direct servicing!
Old 19th September 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdemuth View Post
mathieujm, you wrote the mics are "not stable". Feel free to explain what you mean. MBHO mics are entirely handmade in Germany by Mr. Haun and Mr. Schneider (formerly Schoepps) and we offer a lifelong warranty on our mics to the original owner, which includes re-calibration of capsules etc. in case they are not matched anymore.

Please get in touch either with MBHO directly (mbhous@yahoo.com, mbho.de, or Dan at Dale Pri Audio, NYC, our US distributors) for any questions in case you have pair which is not on sync anymore (if I understand the "unstable" correct?).
Markus, my MBHO experience is 10 years old. I used the MB648, the KA100D, KA200 and KA300.I had to send back to MBHO my 100D and 300 because the response changed with time and they were not paired anymore. Sometimes it was ok and sometimes not (humidity sensibility ????) I have to say that the service was really great : all my capsules were changed (or repaired ?) free of charge several years after buying them. The lifetime warranty is a reality with MBHO.
I have made great recordings with them (some extracts are here), but then I have choosed other brands.
Old 21st September 2015
  #16
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MBHO

Thank you mathieujm, Polifonia, and JPGerard for your feedback and questions.

Polifonia, I forwarded your question to a client, who kindly provided us with CDs in the past, and today with the following answers and references. Thank you so much, Eduardo!

I hope this answers your questions a tiny bit, Polifonia. I see that you live in Poland, feel free to check out this review of MBHO mics: http://livesound.pl/testy/150-naglos...mikrofony-mbho

All the best, Marcus



"I use mostly my MBHO modular mics (which I have two pairs of 604 bodies and one pair of 648, with many capsules) as ‘spot’ or close mics in my classical music and instrumental recordings. They mix very well in bigger setups with others like Sennheiser (MKHs), Neumann (KMs,Us), Schoeps, Josephson, Beyerdynamic, etc. They sound great for everything - strings, woodwinds, keyboards (piano, harpsichord, fortepiano), percussion, etc."

"Also I use them as stereo spot (small A-B pair) for solos, piano/hspch, or sections. I’ve got the fig8 capsule wich is great and I’ve also used as spot, but it excells as MS pair! The KA100LK linear omni capsules are ‘flat’ but not ‘dark’. I’ve used it as A-B main pair on smaller groups with great results and it takes post eq easily if you need more reach/focus. It even takes Neumann sound diffraction spheres/balls (SBK130#7370, old size/model) and that makes a great main pair for any situation. (unfortunatelly I don’t have the KA100DK diffuse field omni capsules to comment)."

"My linear omni, cardio, widecardio and hyper capsules are all matched (as my 604 and 648 bodies pairs) and I’ve never had any issue with them. These mics are great quality and I personally prefer 604+KAxxx to KM18x (my recording assistant too). I would also dare to say that their color or sound signature is in-between Schoeps and Neumann."

"My work reach is mostly local (broadcast, CDs). I'm not a fan of streaming or iTunes, it's begining to happen here in my country - but here are some recordings to show:

- Kans-Kanji - Beethoven Fortepiano & Cello:

https://open.spotify.com/album/7tYLonzwm5vidRcy42ERGD

Fortepiano spot is AB 604+cardios; cello is AB beyer mc930; room pair is AB 604+omnis+EQ


- CD Juliana D’Agostini & Emmanuele Baldini (young talented brazilian pianist & OSESP’s spalla):

https://player.spotify.com/album/31hDv06S4bQPczk8i74R34 or
https://onerpm.com/disco/album&album_number=642554301

Violin spot is an array of 2 AB small pairs of 604s linear omnis + cardio

- Quinta Essentia Quarteto - Falando Brasileiro (recorder quartet):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMqfc9yK7vw
(This is the CD teaser video (premix, very dry))

All 4 flute spots are MBHO 604 (cardios, widecardios)

CD Release is being replaced at Spotify because of label changes, will be up soon.

- Some other CD tracks (Trenzinho da Cantareira, Trenzinho do Caipira, Jura) can be found at:

"All these releases have other mics too (main pair, room pair, etc). I'm also a great fan of Sennheisers MKHs. But I like to have different mics and mic preamps, just like a painter needs different colors."

http://marcusdemuth11-public.sharepoint.com/pic
Old 27th September 2015
  #17
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avebr's Avatar
 

Missing link:

Quinta Essentia Quarteto - Falando Brasileiro
(recorder quartet)

(This is the CD teaser video (premix, very dry))
All 4 flute spots are MBHO 604 (cardios, widecardios)
CD Release is being replaced at Spotify because of label changes, will be up soon.
Some other CD tracks (Trenzinho da Cantareira, Trenzinho do Caipira, Jura) can be found at
https://www.reverbnation.com/quintaessentiaquarteto


All the best,
avebr
(Eduardo Avellar)
Old 28th September 2015
  #18
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Brillant! Thank you for posting the video, Eduardo!
Old 28th September 2015
  #19
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdemuth View Post

Polifonia, I forwarded your question to a client, who kindly provided us with CDs in the past, and today with the following answers and references. Thank you so much, Eduardo!

That's a nice list. Thank you Markus.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdemuth View Post
Hi, Marcus here from Germany (I work for MBHO in sales).
Hi Marcus!

I'm planning to buy larger collection of cardioid microphones next year, probably min. 10 pcs. I'm classics recording producer, I own many good mics but I'm not satisfied all the time and looking for better :-)

Can you write me who in Poland owns Haun mikes if possible? I want to contact and test it, maybe borrow for larger test.
I know the idea of MBHO capsules, because many years ago Polish factory licensed it and produced. I had several, and even tried to improve it, disassembling the capsules to change membranes :-)
Polish production was bad in key places, but there was something very interesting in the sound (Schoeps origin?) what I'm looking for now, not satisfied with Neumanns and Neumanns copies.

Please send me info here, or in private message, or to tomek@amadeusrecords.pl if possible.

Best regards!
Tomasz Lida
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