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inserts vs aux for Vocals DAW Software
Old 11th August 2012
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
inserts vs aux for Vocals

need some tips on doing vocals

a buddy of mine told me i was doing the wrong thing and just cpu hoggin by using inserts on every vocal take

for ex. my vocal chain


mic -mbox -pro tools

in pro tools i would

Lead vocal
2 dubs panned separate
adlibs

each channel would have a comp-eq-de-esser- insert
and i would copy and past the template for the vocalist and insert it in there dub tracks and tweek that and adlibs and tweek them.


Some one suggested i just Insert comp and send all the vocals to a AUX and on the aux add the eq-de esser- etc

and a sepertae bus for reverb and delays will be sent from that aux


Can i get a basic idea of peoples signal chains \.

and any tips would be great.
Old 11th August 2012
  #2
Gear maniac
 
soundsubs's Avatar
 

tell your friend he doesnt know what he/she is talking about.
make sure youre not de-essing unless you NEED to. i'll assume you need to.

as much as i hate to say NEVER, you NEVER put a de-esser on a send.
its an insert effect, as in "take my sound, process it, and give me back the processed sound" not a send effect as in "in addition to my original sound, pass me back a portion of the sound minus the 'ssssss' which i will re-mix with my original 'sssssss'.

send effects: reverbs, delays, chorus (to mix with dry signal) possibly distortion, possibly compression (for parallel compression instances"

insert effects: de-essers, chorus, eq, comp, saturation, distortion (for guitar or to add dirt to vox/drums)

for the most part, this is what people do, whether its in the analog realm (ie a mixing desk) or virtual itb (inside your software)
Old 11th August 2012
  #3
Gear maniac
 
Kre8 da RedBeerd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsubs View Post

send effects: reverbs, delays, chorus (to mix with dry signal) possibly distortion, possibly compression (for parallel compression instances"

insert effects: de-essers, chorus, eq, comp, saturation, distortion (for guitar or to add dirt to vox/drums)

for the most part, this is what people do, whether its in the analog realm (ie a mixing desk) or virtual itb (inside your software)
^^^This, This and This.

At OP:

There is no template for processing vox. Every session, every take, every track is different, and setting up a processing chain as you've described will lead to bad product.

It is imperative that you Learn what each of the tools does (EQ, compressors, de-essers, etc.). When you have an understanding of what each one does, you'll know when to implement each one at the proper time. Then your mixes will start sounding better.

Anyone who tells you to set up a processing chain at the beginning of a mix has no clue what they're speaking of.

Also, one of the most important things EVER: Great recording. The better your recording, the less processing in the mix.

PEace.
Old 11th August 2012
  #4
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Thanks for the quick replys

wtb sub grouping or bussing the vocals to one channel??
and applying the eq and compression to that one separate channel?

lead,adlibs and dubs for the main vocalist to a separate bus

and than send efx to that separate bus thats labeled Vocalist 1
Old 11th August 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
recordinghopkins's Avatar
I think the OP is talking about Bus vs. Channel processing.

Different vocal parts often need different processing. Your method is correct, but you could also bus all of them and apply further processing. One compressor on 6 tracks is not going to do the same thing as 6 individual compressors, btw.

My busses typically have parallel compression and parallel EQ on them in addition to the channel processing I've done to get each part working well in the group.
Old 11th August 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
recordinghopkins's Avatar
But your friend is partly correct as well. You can save resources with bus processing only. Do it when you can if you need the resources. For instance, you might forego the channel inserts on a group of 4 bgv's and treat them as one stereo pair with a bus insert.
Old 11th August 2012
  #7
Gear Head
 
ITSMIKEWIL's Avatar
 

^^^^ what they said.

But really, the way youre doing it is fine. Like RecordingHopkins said, sending 4 vocal tracks to an aux with one compressor is going to have a way different effect than giving each track its own compressor. Same with EQ's, and you shouldnt really put a De-Esser on an aux anyway...so don't listen to your friend lol
Old 11th August 2012
  #8
Gear interested
 
bdphillipsmusic's Avatar
 

I almost always bus related tracks to a sub aux. it just gives me some extra flexibility, much like the use of groups does. For multiple lead vocals singing a simultaneous part, you will most likely make the choice to use individual inserts. For a group of twenty harmony vocals you can make the choice to not compress each individual one, but all of them together. Either way, subbing out tracks adds an option to mute, change overall level and process a group( indeed saving CPU). Choosing to process as a group or an individual track depends wholey on the situation and what you are going for. Screw the right and wrong.
Old 11th August 2012
  #9
Gear Head
 
realstreet936's Avatar
 

Are yall sure hes not asking if he should put all the eq comps and deessing on an aux track to send all leads or backing vocals to instead of directly to the master fader like taking the out put of the lead vocal and send it to the aux input and the aux output to the master 1&2 then it would b 100% procesed through the eqs comps and deessing and he can the just add sends from the aux to the reverd and delay aux tracks like he would with a normal lead track which would mix the dry.and wet reverb and delay signals... the only reason i would do that is too keep things organized and easy to find like collabing with someone but i have a mac pro quad core and the comps and eqs on seperate tracks doesnt really bog me down so i dont route tracks that way anymore but it is possible to send it to a aux and get 100% processed vocals... i think i spelt some words wrong haha sry!!!
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Old 11th August 2012
  #10
a reverb on an insert sounds differen then on an aux (obviously we are talking about plugins with a wet dry knob).

good luck

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Old 12th August 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
recordinghopkins's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
a reverb on an insert sounds differen then on an aux (obviously we are talking about plugins with a wet dry knob).
How so? Please explain.

Intriguing. I look forward to your reply.

With everything at unity, 100% wet on a parallel path should sound exactly the same as 50% wet in series... No?
Old 12th August 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by recordinghopkins View Post
How so? Please explain.

Intriguing. I look forward to your reply.

With everything at unity, 100% wet on a parallel path should sound exactly the same as 50% wet in series... No?
you are treating the attack of the signal differently. also it matters how good your host handles the delay compensation...

try it.

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Old 12th August 2012
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsubs View Post
tell your friend he doesnt know what he/she is talking about.
make sure youre not de-essing unless you NEED to. i'll assume you need to.

as much as i hate to say NEVER, you NEVER put a de-esser on a send.
its an insert effect, as in "take my sound, process it, and give me back the processed sound" not a send effect as in "in addition to my original sound, pass me back a portion of the sound minus the 'ssssss' which i will re-mix with my original 'sssssss'.

send effects: reverbs, delays, chorus (to mix with dry signal) possibly distortion, possibly compression (for parallel compression instances"

insert effects: de-essers, chorus, eq, comp, saturation, distortion (for guitar or to add dirt to vox/drums)

for the most part, this is what people do, whether its in the analog realm (ie a mixing desk) or virtual itb (inside your software)
He's not advocating putting de-essing on a send. He's subgrouping and putting the processing on the subgroup. Very different to a send fx.
Old 12th August 2012
  #14
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Thanks for replys

I think the proper term i should of used was Sub groups and bussing.

In this fashion

Vocalist one
insert compressor
Lead
adlibs
dubs
>>>>>Bus 1

on the bus insert use EQ-comp-de-essers etc

and send fx to either that vocal bus

or in most cases send it to the indivudual tracks on the mixer like the adlibs and dubs to be treated diff than the lead.


I have two options
just insert comps ,expanders,de essers,eq etc on my leads adlibs and dubs
and just send efx to each one separately .

or sub group mix them
Old 12th August 2012
  #15
Gear nut
 
ozoftheelements's Avatar
 

ah . . . signal flow signal flow signal flow.
Old 13th August 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Storyville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
you are treating the attack of the signal differently. also it matters how good your host handles the delay compensation...

try it.

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Tried it. At 100% wet got a null to the noise floor.
Old 13th August 2012
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
Tried it. At 100% wet got a null to the noise floor.
interesting. out of curiosity I did it in C6 and got different results. the predelay acting totally different here (means I control the tails on a send and the predelay with an insert).

it's nit nulling here.

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Old 13th August 2012
  #18
Gear maniac
 
Kre8 da RedBeerd's Avatar
 

Man...slutty geeks, or geeky sluts?!

Peace.
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